Confused About Job's Three Friends

[Lalas]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

His friends' advice might not have been perfect, yet they sound very similar to the advice that we Christians give to other believers when we deem they are appropriate to give. Plus, their advice sounds more "solid" to me than what Job's wife said to him when she said "Curse God and die" (Job 2:9). Job immediately rebuked her, of course, but I don't see in the Scripture that God was particularly angry with her when she said that. Or was He?

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

 

[gordon777]

Someone pointed out that the devil was around Job while this situation was unfolding.

The devils personality is that he is as an angel of light.( shines as light, has the wisdom of this world. 2 Corinthians 11:14.)

I will share now, an example of the good counsel that David and Absalom had in all the counsel of Ahithophel, that it was as if a man had enquired at the oracle of God. ( consider this to be like the counsel of Eliphaz , Bildad and Zophar.)



David prays to the Lord, when Absalom had turned against him, for the Lord to turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

This is exactly what was occurring with Jobs ordeal. The devil is the wisdom of this world, all who speak with the wisdom of this world speak by influence of the devil. ( remembering that the devil does not sit idly by and watch, but participates since the beginning in the affairs of man.)

The three friends of Job, Eliphaz , Bildad and Zophar. are not told to speak incorrect theology at all, Job never says such a thing, but the only thing that Job speaks about their words is that they are vain. ( Job is not friends with men who speak wrong things, why would he be friends with them, that would be foolish itself.)

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. ( this was what we saw unfold in Eliphaz , Bildad and Zophar, they did not give incorrect theology, yet it still was wrong, as it was vain. Nothing can be shown wrong in any of the words they spoke, because if it could, many many things could be shown to see the wrong in their theology, but Job never shows anything wrong in their answers, with his answers in return to them.

Elihu later answering on Gods behalf, also reveals that Job also spoke vanity, multiplying words without knowledge. ( that means that Jobs theology was also faulty, if Eliphaz , Bildad and Zophar was.)

Elihu fetches his knowledge from afar, ( from the Lord) giving honour to the Lord, and truly, ( verily) his words are not false, because he that is perfect in knowledge was with him.




2 Samuel 15:31 And one told David, saying, Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom. And David said, O Lord, I pray thee, turn the counsel of Ahithophel into foolishness.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;



Job 16:3 Shall vain words have an end? or what emboldeneth thee that thou answerest?

Job 35:1 Elihu spake moreover, and said,

Job 35:13 Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it.
14 Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
15 But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity:
16 Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.

Job 36:1 Elihu also proceeded, and said,
2 Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.
3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.

Job 38:1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?





Back on the example God has revealed to us of Ahithophel's counsel, which was just like the counsel Jobs three friends gave to him.

David wants a friend present with Absaalom, to defeat the counsel of Ahithophel.



2 Samuel 15:34 But if thou return to the city, and say unto Absalom, I will be thy servant, O king; as I have been thy father's servant hitherto, so will I now also be thy servant: then mayest thou for me defeat the counsel of Ahithophel.




Ahithophel is asked by Absalom to give counsel, Ahithophel gives GOOD COUNSEL, ( as Jobs three friends did) and not only was his counsel as if one enquired at the oracle of God ( for wisdom) it also pleased Absalom well, and all the elders of Israel.



2 Samuel 16:20 Then said Absalom to Ahithophel, Give counsel among you what we shall do.
21 And Ahithophel said unto Absalom, Go in unto thy father's concubines, which he hath left to keep the house; and all Israel shall hear that thou art abhorred of thy father: then shall the hands of all that are with thee be strong.
22 So they spread Absalom a tent upon the top of the house; and Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel.
23 And the counsel of Ahithophel, which he counselled in those days, was as if a man had enquired at the oracle of God: so was all the counsel of Ahithophel both with David and with Absalom.

2 Samuel 17:1 Moreover Ahithophel said unto Absalom, Let me now choose out twelve thousand men, and I will arise and pursue after David this night:
2 And I will come upon him while he is weary and weak handed, and will make him afraid: and all the people that are with him shall flee; and I will smite the king only:
3 And I will bring back all the people unto thee: the man whom thou seekest is as if all returned: so all the people shall be in peace.
4 And the saying pleased Absalom well, and all the elders of Israel.




But remembering the situation and the prayer to God to defeat the counsel of Ahithophel. ( the counsel of Jobs three friends was also defeated.)

Hushai began by saying the counsel of Ahithophel, was NOT GOOD AT THIS TIME. ( just as Jobs three friends, it is not the wrong they said, it was the wrong timing they had, so then their counsel was vanity, because a word has to be spoken in due/correct season to be GOOD. Proverbs 15:23.)

Absalom and all the men of Israel said, the counsel of Hushai the Archite is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. For the Lord had appointed to defeat the GOOD COUNSEL of Ahithophel, to the intent that the Lord might bring evil upon Absalom. ( the counsel of Jobs three friends was also defeated, because it had nothing right in it, they condemned Job, but could not give justifiable reasons why.)



Job 32:3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, BECAUSE THEY HAD FOUND NO ANWER ( VANITY) , and yet had condemned Job.


Proverbs 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word spoken in due season, how GOOD IS IT.

2 Samuel 17:6 And when Hushai was come to Absalom, Absalom spake unto him, saying, Ahithophel hath spoken after this manner: shall we do after his saying? if not; speak thou.
7 And Hushai said unto Absalom, The counsel that Ahithophel hath given is NOT GOOD AT GTHIS TIME.
8 For, said Hushai, thou knowest thy father and his men, that they be mighty men, and they be chafed in their minds, as a bear robbed of her whelps in the field: and thy father is a man of war, and will not lodge with the people.
9 Behold, he is hid now in some pit, or in some other place: and it will come to pass, when some of them be overthrown at the first, that whosoever heareth it will say, There is a slaughter among the people that follow Absalom.
10 And he also that is valiant, whose heart is as the heart of a lion, shall utterly melt: for all Israel knoweth that thy father is a mighty man, and they which be with him are valiant men.
11 Therefore I counsel that all Israel be generally gathered unto thee, from Dan even to Beersheba, as the sand that is by the sea for multitude; and that thou go to battle in thine own person.
12 So shall we come upon him in some place where he shall be found, and we will light upon him as the dew falleth on the ground: and of him and of all the men that are with him there shall not be left so much as one.
13 Moreover, if he be gotten into a city, then shall all Israel bring ropes to that city, and we will draw it into the river, until there be not one small stone found there.
14 And Absalom and all the men of Israel said, The counsel of Hushai the Archite is better than the counsel of Ahithophel. For the Lord had appointed to defeat the GOOD COUNSEL of Ahithophel, to the intent that the Lord might bring evil upon Absalom.

 

[gordon777]

Even though both Job and his three friends had all spoken vanity, ( multiplying words without knowledge.) Job was doing this ( if we remember) in a terrible time for him, his children and all he had was gone, his body was in agony.

Jobs three friends had no hand of God upon them, not troubled and plagued, then they speak words without knowledge in pride as a chain, the three were not pressed as Job, and condemned Job without knowledge, while Job had to try to defend himself against them, which was then in turn his words without knowledge, as his words uplifted himself, while placing the Lord below him.



Psalm 73:5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.

Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.




But Job knows also, that, that was a trial from the Lord, and not punishment as the three friends had supposed/judged, and that was the difference, and Job knew it because it was his trial, the three friends did not know, as they had no such trial from the Lord. ( not in trouble/plagued as other men.)




Jobs three friends would draw Job or anyone away from the Lord, if the Lord did not give defence against their wrong counsel.

When the Lord gives good counsel, ( Elihu and then Himself) that was the mercy of the Lord to defeat all other counsel ( including that of the serpent) which caused Job to repent, just as the counsel of Christ sent to earth defeated all the counsel of the devil and his ministers into foolishness, and commanded all men everywhere to repent of satan's darkness and foolish defeated counsel.)



Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

 

[Highway54]

Lalas OPer
Consider this:
Matthew 16:22 kjv
22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

This was about the suffering Jesus was to go through.

Satan can influence us to give wrong theology. Of course the Holy Spirit has come since Peters rebuke of Jesus. (comfort is a King James word meaning direct actions ?)
Today we think comfort is a pat on the back. Thy rod and staff they comfort me. Peter got the whack from the rod, and not the staff drawing him closer.

We know Satan was in the background involved in all this Job stuff.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

We know Satan was in the background involved in all this Job stuff.

Amen sir!

 

[GodsGrace]

What a great thread!

 

[gordon777]

Job repented, as the Lord gave Job correction. ( that was the purpose of chastisement on Job, to be perfected even more than usual for a man.)

Jobs friends did not repent, also the Lord gave them neither chastisement, nor teaching, as He did only for Jobs benefit.

Job had affliction, as James recalls for all the prophets, and how they all, like Job, patiently endured.

Jeremiah speaks just like Job, because the example of Job is exactly the same as all the prophets experienced, they wanted to die, but this is how God gets us to live.



James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James 3:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.


Jeremiah 20:15 Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.





The example also of Jobs friends is the same as the Pharisees, all showing the commandments of God that are right to do, but saying only, and never doing any of them. ( as seen in some teaching on the forum, all texting, teaching, and non doing.)



Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.



Anybody who cannot advise right ( as Jobs three friends) has nothing to say.

That is why it is clear immediately, all who are not swift to hear, instead of quick to speak, are the same as Jobs friends, ever learning and NEVER ABLE to come to the knowledge of the truth. ( they only have a FORM OF GODLINESS.)



2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[gordon777]

Fastfredy0, indeed it would be an impossible thing for us finite creatures to try to understand the infinite God when we are so limited in our understanding of God. Yet, it is still worth trying if by doing so we become closer to Him. You pretty much said something similar to what WIP said when you mentioned "Don't question God's motives". Who are we to question or doubt God's decisions? We are but mere vassals of the Lord, though privileged in the sense that we are so loved by God.

Yet God has us to believe in the impossible. ( that is what faith is)


Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?



It was Jobs friends that the Lord has shown, did not speak the thing that is right about Him.

Job did speak the thing that is right, more understanding comes from what Job spoke, less, or none, comes from what Jobs three friends advised/counselled.

Eliphaz is condemning Job wrongly, In Job 22, that is the fact. The three friends are guilty of wrong judgement.

Look at the question in Job 22:2-3, does it please the Almighty if we are righteous, is it gain to Him if we make our ways perfect ?



Job 22:2 Can a man be profitable unto God, as he that is wise may be profitable unto himself?
3 Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou art righteous? or is it gain to him, that thou makest thy ways perfect?

Job 32:3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.




The answer is found in Jesus Christ, the answer is YES.


2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.




Jesus shows why, because He does always, what pleases the Father.

We also following Christ, do not please ourselves, ( to please God) we please others to edification, ( which is why the Son pleased the Father.) Christ pleased not Himself, He received the reproaches of those that reproached the Father.

By faith Enoch was translated, he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Without faith it is impossible to please him, they must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.



John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Romans 15:We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



Is it gain to God to make our ways perfect ?


The whole purpose of Job, was that God could gladly tell satan, that Job was perfect, out of all those in the earth.

Satan disapproved, ( as it does not please satan for mans ways to be perfect with God.)

God answers how satan was accusing Job without cause. ( the old serpent called the devil and satan is the accuser of the brothers, cast out of heaven for lies. Revelation 12:10.)

Satan again moves God to be against Job, and Job tries to remain patient.


Job 1:8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2:3 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.



The three friends of Job, spoke nothing to help Job for seven days, they were only waiting, to condemn. ( they offered nothing else useful, Job had answered how if it was them in trouble, he would have spoken words to comfort them.)

Job spoke, complaining about his grief, forbearing the pains, and was not better, made weary, and all the company of his friends, and his wife, were desolate to him.


Job 16:5 But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.
6 Though I speak, my grief is not asswaged: and though I forbear, what am I eased?
7 But now he hath made me weary: thou hast made desolate all my company.



Did Eliphaz have any right opinion, about our ways right for God to please Him, 1. to be profitable to God, 2. to make our ways perfect , in regards to Jobs trial ?

Of course the answer is testified for us to believe in faith, or to deny in unbelief. The unprofitable servant ( to God) is to be cast away into outer darkness, because all had together become unprofitable, none doing good, not one.


Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.


But, the temptations ( which satan put on Job) is the trying of your faith, to work patience, and paience has her perfect work, for us to be perfect, entire, wanting nothing, to endure as Job did, to hear ( and believe) in the patience of Job. ( during the time all his company were become desolate unto him.)


James 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

 

[gordon777]

Yet, I am curious to know more of God and to "see" into the personality of God, if God has a personality like we do and if it can be studied at all within the confines of our earthly wisdom.

God being the Holy Trinity and of the Spirit I conjecture maybe God doesn't have the same personality "makeup" that we humans do. But does the Bible not say that we were created in the image of God? (Genesis 1:27) If so, there must be some deep and divine layer within ourselves that must reflect the very essence of God. The sentient part of us, for instance, could be precisely that because it allows us to have intimacy with God. But then, I'm not 100% sure.

We do not have earthy wisdom.

James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.



God reveals/searches all things, the deep things of God, by HIs Spirit unto us.


1 Corinthians 2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


God is one, we become one with Him, because there is one Spirit.


John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[gordon777]

I find it very interesting when you say that "There is no external influence that determines His [God's] actions" but when I was reading Job I was under the impression that it was Satan who somehow convinced God that it was a good idea to test Job (Job 1:9-12). Clearly, the decision was ultimately up to God. However, would God have derived at that conclusion on His own had Satan not made the suggestion in the first place? Hmm.

The Lord ways are perfect, how can satan ( imperfection) influence God ?


Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.



That is the purpose of satan, ( God has purpose in all he created, He created all) to question God, and God to answer with actions, with revealing what He is doing, and the perfection He is creating. ( which answers all satan's accusations and doubts, as satan is the example of unbelief, and is why the whole world is deceived/following him now.)


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[gordon777]

If anyone wants context, ( kind of important) 1. the wicked ways, and 2. the unrighteous mans thoughts, are not the 1. thoughts of the Lord, nor the 2. ways of the Lord.


Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



The peace of God passes all understanding, ( comprehension) is kept in our hearts and minds through Jesus Christ.

Christ dwells in our hearts by faith, to be rooted and grounded n His love, to be able to comprehend with all saints, all, which is to know the love of Christ, ( the love of God) which passes knowledge, to be filled with all the fulness of God.



Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

 

[gordon777]

A time comes, when there will be time no longer.

Time exists for man as it does for God, because God has a set time to end all.

If God has a thousand years as a day, that same applies for us, because God has given that for us, as He says. 9 I have appointed thee each day for a year.)



Psalm 102:13 Thou shalt arise, and have mercy upon Zion: for the time to favour her, yea, the set time, is come.

Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

[gordon777]

I'll just say: The glory of God, not the happiness of the creature, is the true theodicy of sin.

The creature is happy when reproached, ( as Job was reproached by satan and the three "friends") for the name of Christ.

They speak evil of Christ, ( as satan and the three "friends" spoke not what was right of God)

But on our part He is GLORIFIED. ( as Job spoke what was right about the Lord.)



1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.



Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

 

[gordon777]

Job is about understanding why the righteous suffer through no fault of their own.
Job's friends were limited in that they could not conceive of this truth, they represent the sum of what was then known.
In their eyes Job could only be in his situation because of sin.
Halfway through the story a young man joins them and takes God's position. He speaks and disappears when God begins to speak. A young man with God's message, an angel.

Job had fault, the trial revealed it, and the Lord healed it. ( fruits of righteousness through chastening of the Lord.)

It was the chastening of the Lord, that takes man from sin ( pride) and allows belief in God ( faith in Christs suffering, not complaint of our own.)

 

[gordon777]

1. It had nothing to do with Job's guilt. In fact, God chose Job for Satan to torment for the very reason that his faith was strong. God knew that.

2. None of the punishment was of God. It was of Satan. God had only given him permission to test his servant, but everything that happened to torment him came from the mind and work of Satan.

So, Jobs three friends were wrong and were not telling the truth about God. God doesn't like people to not tell the truth about Him.

All the world is guilty before God. ( including Job)


Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.



The outcome of satan's suggestions, and Gods agreement, is improvement for Job, and an example to the world of the patience of Job.

Satan, as we understand from the Gospel, takes away the word to not allow fruit. ( satan did not what satan does, God did.)

Jobs three friends, had no fruit visable. ( of satan)

The only fruit viewed from the three "friends" is of thorns, revealing they were wolves in sheep's clothing.



Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.



Mark 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Mark 4:20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

 

[gordon777]

Job as we all know had grievance, but afterwards yielded the peaceable fruits of righteousness. ( as this was the chastening of the Lord on Job, which Job was exercised by, and then as Jesus showed us, we can leap for joy, when men hate us, separate you from their company, and cast your name out as evil. Jobs "friends" did that, and Job said how all his company were desolate unto him.)

Christ was reproached for us, and Job is an example of reproach too, as all the prophets were reproached by those around them.

Jesus also taught us the men of our household, are our enemies. ( as Jobs "friends" turned out to be seen as.)

Micah 7:5 Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
6 For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.

Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.



Psalm 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

Job 16:7 But now he hath made me weary: thou hast made desolate all my company.

Job 19:3 These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.


Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.



Anyone able to agree to all I am answering, or nobody ?

 

[gordon777]

Remembering that the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, earthly wisdom is devilish, does any yet have the only wisdom possible to Jobs three friends, who Job advised would be wise to be silent and hold their peace?

Elihu was young, younger than Job and Jobs three friends, ( had not lived long on the earth) and answered how there is a Spirit in man, the inspiration of the Almighty (The Spirit) gives them understanding. The aged men do not understand judgement. ( the Spirit in Elihu is what gave him understanding/not therefore an angel who is a spirit, not a man with the Spirit in him, as Elihu was.)

Elihu told Job to keep silent, hold his peace, and he will teach him wisdom. Job did, Job listened, Job received correction and learning, but Jobs three friends would never hold their peace.

Now, LET EVERY MAN be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath.

The wrath of man ( by pride comes, strife, debate, contention) does not work the righteousness of God.

Lay aside all naughtiness, to receive with meekness ( the chastening and trouble/plaguing on Job is the Lord not letting pride be as a chain on Job.) the engrafted Word, able to save our souls.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. ( as the Scribes, who say and do not.)



Job 13:5 O that ye would altogether hold your peace! and it should be your wisdom.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.


Job 32:6 And Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion.
7 I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
9 Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.
10 Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion.

Job 33:31 Mark well, O Job, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I will speak.
32 If thou hast anything to say, answer me: speak, for I desire to justify thee.
33 If not, hearken unto me: hold thy peace, and I shall teach thee wisdom.


Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Psalm 73:5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Matthew 23:2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

 

[eddif]

Lalas OPer
Where are you?

If I post here, I am not actually speaking to you.

This forum is set up to speak to the OP person.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

It's a very long read in the book of Job to put it all together in it's full context, but the jest of it is the series of speeches these three men spoke to Job who were to be a comfort to him is what caused God to be angry against them as they were inaccurate in what they spoke not speaking truth about God, and why God allows people to suffer. These men insisted that Job admit what he had done wrong in order for God to forgive him, but Job did not wrong.

We should never assume that trials and tribulations we go through are the sign of God's judgement against us. What Job endured was that of being tested by God for His purpose in Job and we see that Job endured everything that Satan was allowed to take from him and in the end God blest Job in a mighty way.

 

[gordon777]

Sorry, but to understand Job right, a full summary is required, or the opinions will just be opinion, and not accuracy.


Job understands what is happening to him, but cannot bear it. Job says that pity should be showed from his friend, Job answers how they deal deceitfully with him, that their reasoning reproves nothing.

Not paying attention to the reasoning of Jobs friends, which Job knows and acknowledges, nor of the complaints of Job, which the prophets in affliction, complained similarly, Job speaks of the judgements of the Lord.



Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.

Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;

Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?





Job is aware he has sinned, and asks why the Lord is not pardoning his iniquity.

The friend says Job should have sought unto God, and that God does not cast away a perfect man ( as God had acknowledged Job was his perfect man in all the earth) and Job concurs.

Job answers how a man cant hardened themselves against God to prosper. ( Job was hardened in affliction and pride just yet)

Job says that God wounds him without a reason. ( Job saw himself as doing no offence, but the offence came out of him afterwards anyway)

Job acknowledges that God destroys the perfect and the wicked, Job wants Gods rod taken away from him, so he can speak without being terrified of God.

Job complains to God that this is shining on the counsel of the wicked, and that God cant see as a man sees.





Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.


Job 8:5 If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
6 If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.


Job 8:20 Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
21 Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.

Job 9:2 I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
3 If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
4 He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?

Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
35 Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.


Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?
4 Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?

 

[gordon777]

Jobs friend accuses Job of lies, and that a man full of talk as Job, cannot be justified.

Job again acknowledges that what the friends say, he also knows. But that his friends/neighbours, mock him, and laugh him to scorn.

Job says he knows the same ass his friends show they know, ( correct theology) but that they are forgers of lies, they gave no value in their words. ( they did not speak the right word in the right season.)

Job answers the friends that they speak wickedly for God, talking deceitfully for Him. They mock Job, and also mock God.

Job answers how even if God slays him, he will maintain his ways before Him, trusting in Him, and God will be his salvation, Job knows he shall be justified.

Job requires the Lord to show all of his iniquities, and says he is bearing the iniquities of his youth now.





Job 11:2 Should not the multitude of words be answered? and should a man full of talk be justified?
3 Should thy lies make men hold their peace? and when thou mockest, shall no man make thee ashamed?

Job 12:3 But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
4 I am as one mocked of his neighbour, who calleth upon God, and he answereth him: the just upright man is laughed to scorn.

Job 13:2 What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you.
3 Surely I would speak to the Almighty, and I desire to reason with God.
4 But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.

Job 13:7 Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him?
8 Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?
9 Is it good that he should search you out? or as one man mocketh another, do ye so mock him?
10 He will surely reprove you, if ye do secretly accept persons.

Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite shall not come before him.
17 Hear diligently my speech, and my declaration with your ears.
18 Behold now, I have ordered my cause; I know that I shall be justified.

Job 13:23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.
24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
25 Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?
26 For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.





Jobs friends say that Job does not know more than them, and wisdom is not restrained to just himself.

They say that hypocrites are desolate, they do mischief and bring forth vanity.

Job answers how he could speak as they do ( condemning/judging) but that he would strengthen them and help their grief.

Job answers how the Lord has made him weary, and made desolate all his company.

Job answers how his enemy hurt him with their mouth, and hit him reproachfully, gathering together against him, ( the three friends) and God had delivered him to the ungodly, turned him over to the hands of the wicked. ( three friends)

Job says this is not for any injustice in his hands: , and his prayer is pure.

Jobs friends scorn him, but his eye pours out tears unto God.





Job 15:8 Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?
9 What knowest thou, that we know not? what understandest thou, which is not in us?
10 With us are both the grayheaded and very aged men, much elder than thy father.

Job 15:34 For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.
35 They conceive mischief, and bring forth vanity, and their belly prepareth deceit.

Job 16:4 I also could speak as ye do: if your soul were in my soul's stead, I could heap up words against you, and shake mine head at you.
5 But I would strengthen you with my mouth, and the moving of my lips should asswage your grief.

Job 16:7 But now he hath made me weary: thou hast made desolate all my company.

Job 16:9 He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.
10 They have gaped upon me with their mouth; they have smitten me upon the cheek reproachfully; they have gathered themselves together against me.
11 God hath delivered me to the ungodly, and turned me over into the hands of the wicked.

Job 16:16 My face is foul with weeping, and on my eyelids is the shadow of death;
17 Not for any injustice in mine hands: also my prayer is pure.

Job 16:20 My friends scorn me: but mine eye poureth out tears unto God.

 

[gordon777]

Job shows how he has mockers with him, and they continue in provocation. Their heart is hid from understanding, they are not to be exalted by God.

The friends complain they are counted as beasts by Job, vile in his sight.

Job asks how long they will vex his soul, and break him in pieces with their words. ( condemning/judging)

Ten times they reproach Job, no shame they make themselves strange unto their friend. If Job had erred, the error was not found out by the friends.

God informs them that God had overthrown him, and was about him with His net.





Job 17:2 Are there not mockers with me? and doth not mine eye continue in their provocation?
3 Lay down now, put me in a surety with thee; who is he that will strike hands with me?
4 For thou hast hid their heart from understanding: therefore shalt thou not exalt them.

Job 18:3 Wherefore are we counted as beasts, and reputed vile in your sight?

Job 19:2 How long will ye vex my soul, and break me in pieces with words?
3 These ten times have ye reproached me: ye are not ashamed that ye make yourselves strange to me.
4 And be it indeed that I have erred, mine error remaineth with myself.
5 If indeed ye will magnify yourselves against me, and plead against me my reproach:
6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.




Job asks the friends to have pity on him, telling them the hand of God had touched him, and asks why they persecute Job, and were not willing to see that his flesh was already punished. ( Psalms 69, shows how Christ looked for some to take pity, and found none.)

Job tells the friends he knows his redeemer lives, and stands at the latter day upon the earth. ( the same Jesus Christ wo also looked for some to take pity and found none.)



Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?


Psalm 69:20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.


Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:





The friends again say how the triumph of the wicked is for a moment, how they are full of the sin of their youth. ( accusing Job of being a hypocrite)

Job answers how he will speak, then they can mock on.




Job 20:5 That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment?

Job 20:11 His bones are full of the sin of his youth, which shall lie down with him in the dust.

Job 21:3 Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.




Job answers them how the wicked are safe from fear, the rod of God is not upon them. They therefore do not want to know the ways of the Lord, they serve not God, they say there is no profit to pray to God, the counsel of the wicked is far from good.

Psalms 73, repeats the same as Job had answered, the wicked are in prosperity, no bands and their strength is firm, not in trouble as other men, not plagued as other men, they are compassed about with pride.





Job 21:7 Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?
8 Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
9 Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.

Job 21:14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
16 Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me.



Psalm 733 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.