Confused About Job's Three Friends

[Lalas]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent. Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice. The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job. Who could have ascertained 100% that Job didn't have pride in his heart, per se, for all his initial great success and wealth? Or that he might have had unconfessed sin which he eventually resolved with God but that sin was still present until he confessed it? And it seems he even worried about the possibility of his children cursing God in their hearts so he made burnt offering as a sacrifice to God as a result (Job 1:5).

His friends' advice might not have been perfect, yet they sound very similar to the advice that we Christians give to other believers when we deem they are appropriate to give. Plus, their advice sounds more "solid" to me than what Job's wife said to him when she said "Curse God and die" (Job 2:9). Job immediately rebuked her, of course, but I don't see in the Scripture that God was particularly angry with her when she said that. Or was He?

So what gives? Should we be wary of giving counsel and advice to fellow Christians lest we bring God's wrath or judgment into our lives? Or am I missing something here? What do you think about Job's three friends?

 

[gordon777]

Job knows the thoughts of his friends, imagining wrong devices against him.

Job answers the place of the wicked, that they are reserved to the day of judgement for destruction for the day of wrath, and that the friends comfort in vain because there is falsehood left in their judgement.





Job 21:27 Behold, I know your thoughts, and the devices which ye wrongfully imagine against me.
28 For ye say, Where is the house of the prince? and where are the dwelling places of the wicked?

Job 21:29 Have ye not asked them that go by the way? and do ye not know their tokens,
30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Job 21:34 How then comfort ye me in vain, seeing in your answers there remaineth falsehood?






The friends question can a man be profitable to God, please the Almighty if we are righteous, gain to Him if we make our ways perfect ? They say Jobs wickedness is great and his iniquities forever.

Job answers how God would not be over him in power, ( as the three friends did) but that God ( as Job said he also would do) would strengthen him, and the righteous can dispute with him and be delivered from judgement.

Job says he will come out as gold after God has tried him. Job kept the ways of God and did not decline, and did not go back from his commandment.

But that God is in one mind, and does as HIs soul desires, and performs what is appointed for Job, and does many such hings as that.

Job is troubled by God ( the wicked are not troubled as other men) and is afraid of Him, God makes his heart soft, and troubles him.



Job 22:2 Can a man be profitable unto God, as he that is wise may be profitable unto himself?
3 Is it any pleasure to the Almighty, that thou art righteous? or is it gain to him, that thou makest thy ways perfect?

Job 22:5 Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite?

Job 23:6 Will he plead against me with his great power? No; but he would put strength in me.
7 There the righteous might dispute with him; so should I be delivered for ever from my judge.

Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.
12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.
13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Job 23:15 Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him.
16 For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me:




Job speaks of the wicked, who do not see His ways.

God does not lay folly to the evil doers. They murder the poor in the night as a thief. The adulterer waits until they will not be seen. The wicked dig in the night, they know not the light. ( all these are actions of the wicked, who are in darkness.)

The wicked are exalted for a little while, but will be taken out of the way as all other. It is so, and who can make the speech as a liar, and make the speech as nothing ?

The friends answer how Gods light arises on all. Then man cannot be justified with God to be clean.





Job 24:1 Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?

Job 24:12 Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.
13 They are of those that rebel against the light; they know not the ways thereof, nor abide in the paths thereof.
14 The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief.
15 The eye also of the adulterer waiteth for the twilight, saying, No eye shall see me: and disguiseth his face.
16 In the dark they dig through houses, which they had marked for themselves in the daytime: they know not the light.

Job 24:24 They are exalted for a little while, but are gone and brought low; they are taken out of the way as all other, and cut off as the tops of the ears of corn.
25 And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?

Job 25:3 Is there any number of his armies? and upon whom doth not his light arise?
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

 

[gordon777]

Job answers how the friends do not help him that is without power, to save the arm of him that has no strength. They do not give counsel to him that has no wisdom, they do not declare the thing that is. ( do not reveal the truth.)

Job answers how his judgement is taken away, and the Almighty has vexed his soul.

Elihu later answers in Job 34, how Job had said he was righteous and that God had taken away his judgement, and how Job is the top of all in drinking up scorning like water ( from his three friends) because he had said he was without transgression.






Job 26:2 How hast thou helped him that is without power? how savest thou the arm that hath no strength?
3 How hast thou counselled him that hath no wisdom? and how hast thou plentifully declared the thing as it is?


Job 27:1 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;


Job 34:5 For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
6 Should I lie against my right? my wound is incurable without transgression.
7 What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water?





Job continued his parable. Job wished he was in the time before the afflictions, with the secret of God, the Almighty with him, and Jobs children were about him. ( before they died)

Job lets his land judge him, if he had caused any loss of life, to let thistles grow instead of wheat, and the words of Job were ended.

The three men ceased to answer Job, Job was righteous in his on eyes. ( In Luke the Pharisee prayed thanking God for being righteous, but he publican humbled himself, and Jesus tells us, the publican went down to his house justified rather than the other, for every one who exalts himself will be abased, and he that humbles himself will be exalted.)

Elihu was angry against Job, because he justified himself, rather than God.

Elihu was angry against the three men, they found no answer, yet had condemned Job.






Job 29:1 Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
2 Oh that I were as in months past, as in the days when God preserved me;
3 When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;
4 As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God was upon my tabernacle;
5 When the Almighty was yet with me, when my children were about me;

Job 31:38 If my land cry against me, or that the furrows likewise thereof complain;
39 If I have eaten the fruits thereof without money, or have caused the owners thereof to lose their life:
40 Let thistles grow instead of wheat, and cockle instead of barley. The words of Job are ended.


Job 32: So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.
3 Also against his three friends was his wrath kindled, because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.


Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[gordon777]

Elihu comes as Job had requested, formed out of the clay ( a man) and recalls how Job said he was clean without transgression , innocent and no iniquity in him. That God had found occasion against him and counted him as an enemy. Elihu says how Job is not just in that, as God is greater than man.

God withdraws man from his purpose ( the purpose Job was in) and hides pride from man, keeps back their soul from the pit, chastens him with pain upon his bed, ( as was happened on Job for this purpose of God) and gives him strong pain.

Then it is meet to say unto God, they they have borne chastisement, to not offend any more, and that which they saw not ( as Job did not see) for God to teach them, and if they did iniquity, ( as Job did) to not do it any more. ( through the chastisement and humbling from God)

Job spoke words without knowledge, his words without wisdom. Job is tried unto the end, for his answers for wicked men. ( to justify himself rather than God.) Job added rebellion to his sin, clapped his hands among the people and multiplied his words against God. ( not just humbled and accepting the chastisement. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. 1 Samuel 15:23.)






Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
7 Behold, my terror shall not make thee afraid, neither shall my hand be heavy upon thee.
8 Surely thou hast spoken in mine hearing, and I have heard the voice of thy words, saying,
9 I am clean without transgression, I am innocent; neither is there iniquity in me.
10 Behold, he findeth occasions against me, he counteth me for his enemy,
11 He putteth my feet in the stocks, he marketh all my paths.
12 Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

Job 33:17 That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.
18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.
19 He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong pain:

Job 34:31 Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more:
32 That which I see not teach thou me: if I have done iniquity, I will do no more.
33 Should it be according to thy mind? he will recompense it, whether thou refuse, or whether thou choose; and not I: therefore speak what thou knowest.

Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.





Elihu questions Job, if he thought it right, that he said his righteousness is more than God's ?

Job had said it was no advantage or profit if Job was cleansed from his sin.

Elihu shows how prideful men are not heard, as the Lord does not hear vanity, but that judgement is before Him, to therefore trust in Him.

Job had opened his mouth in vain, and multiplied words without knowledge. ( to not accept the chastisement, and to comp;lain about it, about God, to the three friends.)






Job 35:2 Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?
3 For thou saidst, What advantage will it be unto thee? and, What profit shall I have, if I be cleansed from my sin?

Job 35:12 There they cry, but none giveth answer, because of the pride of evil men.
13 Surely God will not hear vanity, neither will the Almighty regard it.
14 Although thou sayest thou shalt not see him, yet judgment is before him; therefore trust thou in him.
15 But now, because it is not so, he hath visited in his anger; yet he knoweth it not in great extremity:
16 Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain; he multiplieth words without knowledge.

 

[gordon777]

Elihu wants Job to endure this a little while, as he is speaking on Gods behalf. To ascribe righteousness to his maker.

God binds men in fetters, held in cords of affliction, ( as on Job) to show them their work, and their transgression they have exceeded, and opens their ears in this discipline, and then commands them to return from iniquity.

Elihu tells Job to take heed and to not regard iniquity, because he had done that, rather than to accept the affliction. Nobody can teach as God, He alone is exalted by His power, ( Job was exalted not humbled, as the Pharisee was exalted not humbled.) God does not make iniquity, we magnify His work that we behold.



Job 36:2 Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.
3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.

Job 36:8 And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction;
9 Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.
10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.

Job 36:21 Take heed, regard not iniquity: for this hast thou chosen rather than affliction.
22 Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?
23 Who hath enjoined him his way? or who can say, Thou hast wrought iniquity?
24 Remember that thou magnify his work, which men behold.






Job has to stand still and consider the wondrous works of God. We do not know when God disposed the light of His clouds to shine. We cannot be taught what to say unto Him, for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness. ( we were not in the light, when God disposed the light of HIs clouds to shine.)

We cannot find out the Almighty, God does not afflict, ( as Job had supposed) we do therefore fear Him, God does not respect any that are wise of heart. ( as Job was until all of the humbling.)

Then the Lord answers Job out of the whirlwind, saying, who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge ?

Where was Job when God laid the foundations of the earth ?

God says shall he that contended with the Almighty answer Him ? He that reproved God, let him answer it. ( Titus 3:9. Avoid contentions and strivings, they are unprofitable and vain. God wants a man to be profitable.)

Job answers, "Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth."

The Lord answers Job out of the whirlwind, "I will demand of thee, and declare you unto me.
Will you also disannul my judgment? Will you condemn me, that you may be righteous?"

Job is reproved by the Lord and answers, "I know that you can do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from you
3 Who is he that hides counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not."

Job then abhors himself, and repents in dust and ashes.

The Lord tells the three friends that HIs wrath is kindled against them, they have not spoken of God the thing that is right, as His servant Job had.

The three friends had accused Job of not praying to God right, God tells them His servant Job shall pray for them, and that God will accept Him, and how God would deal with them after their folly in that they had not spoken of Him the thing which is right, like His servant Job otherwise.






Job 37:14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God.
15 Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine?
16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
17 How thy garments are warm, when he quieteth the earth by the south wind?
18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?
19 Teach us what we shall say unto him; for we cannot order our speech by reason of darkness.

Job 37:23 Touching the Almighty, we cannot find him out: he is excellent in power, and in judgment, and in plenty of justice: he will not afflict.
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Job 38:Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 40:1 Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
3 Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
6 Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.


Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

 

[gordon777]

Anyone read this summary and see the answer for all confusion yet ?


1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

 

[eddif]

Anyone read this summary and see the answer for all confusion yet ?


1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

Lalas OPer are you checking in.

According to the rules of this forum:
We can only address our comments to you Lalas

It appears that you stopped posting.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[WIP]

Couple reminders.

1. The rules of the this Questions and Answers forum require that we all focus on answering the original poster's (OP) questions only. Please follow the rules of this forum found in the sticky at the top of the forum.
2. It is advisable to keep posts to a reasonable length. Lengthy posts are more likely to be ignored. So, if you want your responses to be actually read, keep them short and to the point.
3. It is advisable not to flood the discussions with many successive posts. As with lengthy posts, multiple posts in rapid succession are also more likely to be ignored because they are essentially one long post.
4. It can be considered rude and appears boastful to dominate a discussion with long or numerous successive posts just as it is with dominating conversation in a group and not allowing others to get a word in edgewise and may even discourage others from contributing. Nobody is interested in listening to a windbag.

 

[miamited]

Hi WIP

It is advisable to keep posts to a reasonable length. Lengthy posts are more likely to be ignored. So, if you want your responses to be actually read, keep them short and to the point.

Just to offer a second to that instruction. I don't think it necessary that every post someone makes needs to rehash and rehash and repost the same 500 Scripture verses over and over again to make a point that nobody is going to read through 10 looooooooong posts to get to.

God bless,
Ted

 

[WIP]

Let's get back to answering the OP's questions.

 

[journeyman]

Can those with more Biblical knowledge and/ or theological understanding help me understand why God was angry with Job's three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar? My basic understanding about his friends is that while they did the "right thing" by showing up at his house to commiserate with Job, they didn't give godly advice and somehow that angered God.

What Eliphaz initially said to Job was something along the lines of "The innocent are not usually punished by God" (Job 4:7) implying that maybe Job wasn't entirely innocent.

That's what the religious leaders said about Jesus,

...we know that this man is a sinner. Jn.9:24

Bildad, his other friend, said something along the lines of "If you seek God and plead for mercy then God will restore you" (Job 8:5-6) which doesn't sound like a bad advice.

That's what the religious leaders said to Jesus,

He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God. Mt.27:43

The third friend, Zophar, said something along the lines of "You claim to be clean before God's eyes but if God were to reveal all the secrets of wisdom then God could show you your guilt!" (Job 11:4-6) which could be true enough.

So the point is, Job was being wrongfully looked at by people who thought they knew God.

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless? He couldn't have been perfect as he was only human. The only person we know who was perfect in every way was Jesus, not Job.

Right. So the lesson is when we patiently endure sin against ourselves, we see how longsuffering God is.

And our dear Lord didn't need to be conformed to his own Image. Jesus put up with sinners to show the world Gods' patience.

 

[gordon777]

And while I commend Job for being "blameless and upright" (Job 1:1) in the eyes of God, who is to say He was perfectly sinless?

I know it is too much to ask that people who answer questions of the Lord, see that the only true way to comment on something, is to know the whole of the matter, and a summary although long, and ignored as stated, is the minimum that anyone would do, look at, so we did not make the mistake of Jobs three friends, who all spoke lots of words, without knowledge, and then were guilty before God . People choose sparks rather than God who is light. ( Isaiah 50:11.)



Job at first did not sin with his mouth.

After that, Job was righteous in his own eyes.

Job to be righteous in his own eyes, had, had to condemn God, that Job may be righteous instead of the Lord.

At First Elihu corrects Job in Job 36, Elihu has to do what Job never did, to ascribe righteousness to God.

But as it is testified, in Psalm 51, the confession is, against God is the sin, and they did evil in His sight, and that confession they make, is so the Lord is justified when He speaks and is clean when He is judged. ( let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in your sayings, and might overcome when you are judged.)

In the end, Job confesses how vile he is, he had sinned in judging the Lord, but the Lord covered his transgression.



Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Job 36:3 I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?


Psalm 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.


Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.



Now, all who confess the Lord in truth are saved, and all who cannot acknowledge righteousness to God, are ungodly. ( Job was given repentance by the Lord, to acknowledge the truth.)



2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

 

[gordon777]

Another lesson I became very aware of, is how Job complained and cursed his day, but changed, and did not continue, as that way was wrong.

But now, at the end of the world, men ( or women) by good words, and fair speeches, deceive the hearts of the simple.

Their mouth speak great swelling words of vanity, ( just as the Pharisees appeared righteous unto men, but inward they were full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Matthew 23:28, ) and they have men's persons in admiration to gain advantage. ( to deceive them, having a form of godliness, but are more deceiving than even the Pharisees were, except, I can detect and reveal them them too easily if I want, even though they think they are experts in sounding godly, their words betray them, as they usually agree to everybody's comments, that they are wise and good, which proves they seem to speak and sound right, but they deny the power of righteousness.



Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.