Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

[iconbusters]

Greetings, Icon.

I find this argument to be a construct designed to explain away why God would pave the way for salvation for anyone who turned from their sins and believed. It really proves nothing either way, it only presents a theory in keeping with a mindset IMO.

But in regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

Blessings,
Hidden

Hello Hidden In Him,
I have read and re-read your post, however, with respect, I honestly do not understand the first paragraph. Please re-state.
Re: your second paragraph...... Do believe what was true of mankind's evil thoughts and intents of their hearts in Genesis 6 is NOT TRUE today?

 

[iconbusters]

Talking about Noah and God and I am side tracking the thread ?



In case you missed it there is a thread going if you are foregoing the Noah flood connection .

W

Thread 'Does God LOVE everybody'

Nov 16, 2024

You hear this a lot, but everybody really defines what they mean by love.

Deut 10:15 The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.

The word "delighted" according to Strongs:
Delighted = 2836. chashaq
Usage: The Hebrew verb "chashaq" primarily conveys a sense of deep affection, attachment, or love. It often implies a strong emotional bond or desire, whether between individuals or between God and His people. The term can denote both human and divine love, emphasizing a...

• Whatever
• Replies: 744
• Forum: Theology

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Hello hawkman,
The OP concerns the question of God's love for all when He purposed to drown all (except 8). The fundamental issue concerns knowing the true God according to His Word or believing in a God who is not consistent with the God of Scripture. Once we tackle this issue, we can discuss Noah. Does that sound fair?

 

[hawkman]

The OP concerns the question of God's love for all when He purposed to drown all

God's love for us is the reason they drowned . John 3:16 .

 

[Hopeful 2]

Consider the Flood and Attributes of God​

1. Consider God is love: 1 John 4:8.

2. Consider God does not change: Malachi 3:6.

3. Consider God is the same before the world began, during the Old Testament times, New Testament times and forever: Hebrews 13:8.

4. Consider God does nothing without a purpose, and His purpose will be accomplished: Isaiah 46:10.

5. Consider God purposefully brought the Flood as a judgment upon all mankind: Genesis 6:17.

6. Consider God is omniscient: Isaiah 40:28.

7. Consider every inhabitant on earth perished, with the exception of 8 souls: Genesis 7:21-23. This God foreknew before He sent the Flood because He is omniscient and because He purposed their demise.

8. Now consider the common assumption in exegeting John 3:16 in order to prove that “God so loved the world.” The assumption dictates that this verse must apply to all mankind, without exception, due to the obvious definition of ‘world.’

9. By applying this assumption, we must consider that God, who is love, and whose love is constant, and is not partial, Acts 10:34, and does not change, so loved all mankind in both the world of Old and New Testaments, otherwise the assumption would not hold true. And besides, who would dare claim otherwise.... that God hated Old Testament mankind yet loved New Testament mankind.

10. Consider the Conclusion: Despite His deep and constant love for all mankind, God purposefully and willfully destroyed all mankind living at the time of the Flood, except for 8 souls.

11. Now consider the love of God for those who perished in the Flood:

(a) God so loved the elderly, the maimed, the mentally incompetent, the crippled, the pregnant, mothers, infants, toddlers, children, etc., etc., that they were all DROWNED ON PURPOSE.

(b) Noah reached a few men with his preaching, though they ignored his warning, 2 Peter 2:5, but the vast majority on earth who lived further away never heard the Gospel. Yet God purposefully destroyed them knowing faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, Romans 10:17, which they will never hear.

SUMMARY​

Preaching God’s love for all without exception leads to a very perverted view of God’s love.

1. It preaches a love which fails to save those whom God loves.

2. It preaches a love for those who will never be saved because He has willed they never hear the Gospel.

3. To tell a person, “God loves you,” is of little comfort. For, according to many, God also loves those in Hell. His love has given you the free will to choose Christ or perish. Once God loves you, they teach, He always loves you, for God is love and His love does not change, even for those in Hell, despite the horror of their eternal torments.

4. Thus, according to many, there are two kinds of God’s love: one malevolent, the other benevolent. The malevolent love of God either stands by, doing nothing more to save you, though He has the infinite power and knowledge to reverse your course on the road to perdition. Of course, if He purposed your demise, He would never give a thought of intervening in your destruction.

However, the Bible teaches only one kind of God’s love: benevolent. God’s love never fails, 1 Cor. 13:8; it always accomplishes its purpose. And that purpose is to save His people, whom He has loved and foreknown from eternity, Matthew 1:21, Jeremiah 31:3. It is a love which intervenes and actually rescues those who are incapable of rescuing themselves, for men are naturally dead to spiritual truths, Ephesians 2:1. It is a love which comes first, before we could claim any genuine love for Him, 1 John 4:19. It is a love which loses none, John 6:39.

To teach, preach and believe otherwise is a sign and symptom of the tragic possibility that one may not know the true God.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

NEXT: Consider the Garden.

​

God loves the world, but He hates sinners. (Psalm 5)

 

[iconbusters]

Of course . But I still have a question for you below .

My question again is .

Why do you think they were "purposefully destroyed " ? Do you know ?

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.
God will destroy, by fire, the earth and all who remain there at His second coming (2 Peter 3:7).
The Flood was but one of several catastrophic warnings to all mankind that there is a righteous God who will one day condemn and destroy all who are not in Christ.

 

[iconbusters]

God's love for us is the reason they drowned . John 3:16 .

Please help me understand your reply. Who is the "us"? John 3:16 says "the world," not "us."

 

[iconbusters]

God loves the world, but He hates sinners. (Psalm 5)

Hello Hopeful 2,
Are not sinners a major part of the world?

 

[hawkman]

Please help me understand your reply. Who is the "us"? John 3:16 says "the world," not "us."

The us is those yet to be from Noah's generations .

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello Hidden In Him,
I have read and re-read your post, however, with respect, I honestly do not understand the first paragraph. Please re-state.
Re: your second paragraph...... Do believe what was true of mankind's evil thoughts and intents of their hearts in Genesis 6 is NOT TRUE today?

Greetings again, brother.

The first paragraph wasn’t all that important. Regarding your second, yes, I’d say it is an entirely different set of circumstances. In Genesis 6, it was a situation where our God had to destroy the entire earth and start over

 

[iconbusters]

The us is those yet to be from Noah's generations .

"God so loved Noah's generations that He drowned all but 8." But Scripture says "God so loved the world....

 

[iconbusters]

Greetings again, brother.

The first paragraph wasn’t all that important. Regarding your second, yes, I’d say it is an entirely different set of circumstances. In Genesis 6, it was a situation where our God had to destroy the entire earth and start over

Hello again, Hidden In Him,
Am I correct in stating that in your view the events of Genesis 6 occurred because the days of Noah were much worse than they are today, resulting in such a drastic action on God's part?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello again, Hidden In Him,
Am I correct in stating that in your view the events of Genesis 6 occurred because the days of Noah were much worse than they are today, resulting in such a drastic action on God's part?

The way I put it was clearer.

 

[iconbusters]

The way I put it was clearer.

OK. How were the circumstances different?

 

[hawkman]

"God so loved Noah's generations that He drowned all but 8." But Scripture says "God so loved the world....

Not only scripture but it was quoting Jesus .

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hello Hopeful 2,
Are not sinners a major part of the world?

Depending on your definition of the world, sinners are either all of it or most of it.
Thank God for the gift of repentance from sin...eh ?
Without it, we would all be doomed.

 

[Hidden In Him]

OK. How were the circumstances different?

Well, scripture says that the intent of every man was only evil continually. That means there were nothing but sinful and murderous thoughts continually, by everyone. Jewish tradition says there was also cannibalism and witchcraft was replete throughout society. That is why the earth had to be destroyed. These days there are certainly people who think evil thoughts, and some who even want to murder. But there are still plenty of people who do not think that way continually.

 

[iconbusters]

Well, scripture says that the intent of every man was only evil continually. That means there were nothing but sinful and murderous thoughts continually, by everyone. Jewish tradition says there was also cannibalism and witchcraft was replete throughout society. That is why the earth had to be destroyed. These days there are certainly people who think evil thoughts, and some who even want to murder. But there are still plenty of people who do not think that way continually.

With all due respect, I cannot find Scripture which confirms your opinion as to people not thinking evil continually. Please cite the Scripture which proves your opinion. Thanks.

 

[iconbusters]

Depending on your definition of the world, sinners are either all of it or most of it.
Thank God for the gift of repentance from sin...eh ?
Without it, we would all be doomed.

Hi Hopeful 2,
So you are saying 'God loves the world of sinners, but He hates sinners?' I apologize, but I cannot follow your line of thinking. Could you explain how that statement is not a contradiction? Thanks for helping me understand.

 

[iconbusters]

Not only scripture but it was quoting Jesus .

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are interpreting the "world" in verse 17 as referring to the New Testament "world," because God had destroyed the Old Testament "world" in Noah's day. Thus, it was too late for God to save the Old Testament "world." Please correct me if I misunderstand.

 

[Hidden In Him]

With all due respect, I cannot find Scripture which confirms your opinion as to people not thinking evil continually. Please cite the Scripture which proves your opinion. Thanks.

Based off of the Jewish traditions. But if you disagree or feel that would be invalid, explain what the circumstances were that caused Him to destroy the planet whereas He is not doing so today.