Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

[hawkman]

God had destroyed the Old Testament "world" in Noah's day

God saved the old testament world by the flood . God saved humanity with the ark .

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hi Hopeful 2,
So you are saying 'God loves the world of sinners, but He hates sinners?' I apologize, but I cannot follow your line of thinking. Could you explain how that statement is not a contradiction? Thanks for helping me understand.

Do you love the make up of your body ?
Don't you hate the germs in it ?
God loves the world He made, but the sinners have tainted His handiwork.
God loves the world 'of the sinners', but hates the sinners on it.

 

[iconbusters]

Based off of the Jewish traditions. But if you disagree or feel that would be invalid, explain what the circumstances were that caused Him to destroy the planet whereas He is not doing so today.

Jewish traditions not approved by Scripture are not only irrelevant but untruthful. Why would you seek such sources? God will destroy the world by fire. When is kept a secret. Have you not read 2 Peter 3:10?

 

[iconbusters]

God saved the old testament world by the flood . God saved humanity with the ark .

Please cite Scripture which says or implies "God saved the Old Testament world by the flood."
Yes, 8 souls were saved in the Ark from which God would repopulate the world. This should be reflected in John 3:16 as "God so loved 8 souls in the world...." But Scripture says, "God so loved the world...."

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jewish traditions not approved by Scripture are not only irrelevant but untruthful. Why would you seek such sources? God will destroy the world by fire. When is kept a secret. Have you not read 2 Peter 3:10?

You didn’t answer my question for the second time when I was discussing scripture itself. Please try answering my question regarding the scripture at hand. If you don’t know what the question was, go back and read my posts. I asked you twice

 

[hawkman]

Please cite Scripture which says or implies "God saved the Old Testament world by the flood."

And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

2The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

3And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

4And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

5And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.

8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;

11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

13And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

14And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

15And God spake unto Noah, saying,

16Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

17Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

18And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

And with that the Old Testament world was born again you could say .

"God so loved 8 souls in the world...."

Do you doubt this ?

But Scripture says, "God so loved the world...."

Of course it does !

 

[iconbusters]

Do you love the make up of your body ?
Don't you hate the germs in it ?
God loves the world He made, but the sinners have tainted His handiwork.
God loves the world 'of the sinners', but hates the sinners on it.

I understand that God saw His Creation in Genesis 1 and called it very good. I also understand 1 Timothy 4:4 called God's edible creatures good for food, but I cannot find the Scripture which states God loves the world of sinners but hates the sinners in it.

 

[iconbusters]

And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;

2The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

3And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

4And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

5And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

6And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

7And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.

8Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

9But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

10And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;

11And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.

13And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.

14And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

15And God spake unto Noah, saying,

16Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

17Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

18And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

19Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

20And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

22While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

And with that the Old Testament world was born again you could say .

Do you doubt this ?

Of course it does !

I am trying to follow your train of thought. You are equating Noah and his family of 8 with the "world." So, you do not believe the "world" of John 3:16 includes all mankind without exception?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Jewish traditions not approved by Scripture are not only irrelevant but untruthful. Why would you seek such sources? God will destroy the world by fire. When is kept a secret. Have you not read 2 Peter 3:10?

You didn’t answer my question for the second time when I was discussing scripture itself. Please try answering my question regarding the scripture at hand. If you don’t know what the question was, go back and read my posts. I asked you twice

 

[iconbusters]

You didn’t answer my question for the second time when I was discussing scripture itself. Please try answering my question regarding the scripture at hand. If you don’t know what the question was, go back and read my posts. I asked you twice

I have carefully re-read your posts. I found this in your earlier postings: "But in regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?" Is this the question you are referring to?
My response: As I stated in my OP, it is impossible that the "world" so-loved of God in John 3:16 refers to all mankind without exception because He destroyed the world (except 8). Common sense dictates purposeful drowning of millions is not an example of love. In Noah's day He loved 8, which is why He saved them. In our New Testament day God is saving Jews and Gentiles whom He chose for salvation before the foundation of the world because He loves them.
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us and washed us from our sins in his own blood; And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[hawkman]

So, you do not believe the "world" of John 3:16 includes all mankind without exception?

The world means all mankind in these two verses . Four times it says world in these 2 verses . Someone was trying to make a point .

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Preaching God’s love for all without exception leads to a very perverted view of God’s love.

2. It preaches a love for those who will never be saved because He has willed they never hear the Gospel.

God is love . If God is Love I believe he will have a plan and I don't expect you or me to understand what it might be . I have confidence in God . Do you ?

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Is this the question you are referring to?

No.

You appear to be dodging a great deal, as that makes five times now in the space of about a page. Dodging doesn't edify anyone; it's just a form of game playing, which we kinda frown on around here.

Neither the debate nor the question are that important, but your behavior as a Christian is, so that appears to be the question now. If you wish to be a member of this forum, incessantly dodging and evading people and asking them to keep rephrasing questions until they finally put one to you in a way you can field isn't a godly thing to do. It's just using amateurish debate tactics, and it will lead to problems here. I understand if you are used to doing that on other forums and they simply allowed it, but it's not the way we do things here, so I would suggest you try turning a new leaf if you wish to stick around and be a quality contributor here.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

1. Consider God is love: 1 John 4:8.

God is the one and only creator of the universe, anything else derives from that identity.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why do you think they were "purposefully destroyed " ? Do you know ?

God flooded the earth to wipe out the giants. Those giants are demonic beings who had polluted human gene pool, it was a last resort of pest control, not just moral judgement. The same motive and reason applied in the conquest of Canaan, the supposed "genecide" was God's order for the Israelites to exterminate the remaining giants. It's very important to have this in our intellectual arsenal, so we can defend God's character when the enemy portrayed God as a genecidal maniac.

 

[iconbusters]

No.

You appear to be dodging a great deal, as that makes five times now in the space of about a page. Dodging doesn't edify anyone; it's just a form of game playing, which we kinda frown on around here.

Neither the debate nor the question are that important, but your behavior as a Christian is, so that appears to be the question now. If you wish to be a member of this forum, incessantly dodging and evading people and asking them to keep rephrasing questions until they finally put one to you in a way you can field isn't a godly thing to do. It's just using amateurish debate tactics, and it will lead to problems here. I understand if you are used to doing that on other forums and they simply allowed it, but it's not the way we do things here, so I would suggest you try turning a new leaf if you wish to stick around and be a quality contributor here.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden

Hello Hidden in Him,
I have been doing my best to find your question and answer it. I have no need to dodge anyone, let alone you. So why not give me the Christian benefit of the doubt and ask me your question plainly so that I may give you my honest and sincere biblical response? Thank you.

 

[iconbusters]

The world means all mankind in these two verses . Four times it says world in these 2 verses . Someone was trying to make a point .

Thank you, hawkman, for giving me a straightforward answer. I applaud your honesty!

God is love . If God is Love I believe he will have a plan and I don't expect you or me to understand what it might be . I have confidence in God . Do you ?

Billy Graham also believes God has a plan to save those who have never heard the name of Jesus, let alone the Gospel. This is called the Gospel of Good Works. By simply being a "good" person with "good" intentions, God will save you. Please view the YouTube interview with Graham. He is one of many who deny the evil hearts lurking in all mankind, unless regenerated by the Holy Spirit through hearing the Word of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

From Page 1: In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

Your response:

Do believe what was true of mankind's evil thoughts and intents of their hearts in Genesis 6 is NOT TRUE today?

My reply:
Yes, I’d say it is an entirely different set of circumstances. In Genesis 6, it was a situation where our God had to destroy the entire earth and start over.

Your response:

Am I correct in stating that in your view the events of Genesis 6 occurred because the days of Noah were much worse than they are today, resulting in such a drastic action on God's part?

My reply:
The way I put it was clearer.
_____________________________

These were my first three attempts to get you to answer a question. The question was this:

In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

 

[iconbusters]

From Page 1: In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

Your response:


My reply:
Yes, I’d say it is an entirely different set of circumstances. In Genesis 6, it was a situation where our God had to destroy the entire earth and start over.

Your response:


My reply:
The way I put it was clearer.
_____________________________

These were my first three attempts to get you to answer a question. The question was this:

In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6), how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually?

Thank you, Hidden in Him, for giving me another chance to answer your question. I was correct in citing that sentence in my previous post, though you responded "No."

Let's break your question down to its primary elements.
1. In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6)
Yes, I jumped from New Testament world of John 3:16 to the Old Testament world of Genesis 6 to prove an important point. As I stated in my OP, God's love is constant. He and His love do not change. If He loved all mankind in the New Testament world, He must love all mankind in the Old Testament world. My conclusion was simple common sense: God does not drown those He loves. Nor does sinful man. Therefore, God did not love all mankind in Genesis 6. The same conclusion holds true for John 3:16. His love is particular and selective, as it was for Noah and his family. God's love never fails to save those He loves.

2. how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually.

As stated above and in my OP, God's love does not change. God does not love the world one day and then hate the world the next. What is missing in this conundrum is the key to understanding the context. That key involves God's love for His Elect: for that is the world God so loved. Scripture is quite clear that God has chosen certain specific people out of the human race for salvation. God the Father chose them, God the Son atoned for their sins by His sacrifice, and the Holy Spirit applies the spiritual gifts necessary to accomplish their salvation. The Trinity is co-extensive in agreement, planning and execution. Christ's sacrifice was effectual for only those given Him, chosen by the Father. He does not lose one. The Holy Spirit then applies the spiritual gifts to those for whom Christ died, who were chosen by the Father. The Holy Spirit does not lose one.

God's love does not and never will fail. God is perfect and a perfect God cannot fail to accomplish His purposes.

I realize some of this may be new to you as well as others. Any comments from you or others are most welcome.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thank you, Hidden in Him, for giving me another chance to answer your question. I was correct in citing that sentence in my previous post, though you responded "No."

Let's break your question down to its primary elements.
1. In regards to your timeframe (which I'm presuming centers primarily on Genesis 6)
Yes, I jumped from New Testament world of John 3:16 to the Old Testament world of Genesis 6 to prove an important point. As I stated in my OP, God's love is constant. He and His love do not change. If He loved all mankind in the New Testament world, He must love all mankind in the Old Testament world. My conclusion was simple common sense: God does not drown those He loves. Nor does sinful man. Therefore, God did not love all mankind in Genesis 6. The same conclusion holds true for John 3:16. His love is particular and selective, as it was for Noah and his family. God's love never fails to save those He loves.

2. how could God be said to love the world if he had allowed them to continue killing each other off, where the thoughts and intents of men's hearts were only to do evil to one another continually.

As stated above and in my OP, God's love does not change. God does not love the world one day and then hate the world the next. What is missing in this conundrum is the key to understanding the context. That key involves God's love for His Elect: for that is the world God so loved. Scripture is quite clear that God has chosen certain specific people out of the human race for salvation. God the Father chose them, God the Son atoned for their sins by His sacrifice, and the Holy Spirit applies the spiritual gifts necessary to accomplish their salvation. The Trinity is co-extensive in agreement, planning and execution. Christ's sacrifice was effectual for only those given Him, chosen by the Father. He does not lose one. The Holy Spirit then applies the spiritual gifts to those for whom Christ died, who were chosen by the Father. The Holy Spirit does not lose one.

God's love does not and never will fail. God is perfect and a perfect God cannot fail to accomplish His purposes.

I realize some of this may be new to you as well as others. Any comments from you or others are most welcome.

LoL.

Iconbusters, I mean you no disrespect, but that was Dodge #7 and counting. You simply doubled down on your OP as if we didn't understand you the first time. I am wanting an answer to my specific question, and something tells me I am never going to get it no matter how many times I ask you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I understand that God saw His Creation in Genesis 1 and called it very good. I also understand 1 Timothy 4:4 called God's edible creatures good for food, but I cannot find the Scripture which states God loves the world of sinners but hates the sinners in it.

You will have to use the scriptures at hand to surmise it.
In the beginning it is written that His world was good. (Gen 1:31)
Later, men befouled it, and it was written that He hated sinners. (Psalm 5:5)
I hope that answered the question.