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Growth Contemporary Judaizers

netchaplain

Member
Not that God would have it done any other way in which it has been done, but if all men in the OT were as Abraham and others who He used, there would have been no need of the Mosaic Law which came after them. When all of them were brought to, and convinced of their indwelling sin, they chose to remain in belief and in fellowship with God.
-NC


“The law is good, if a man use it lawfully”; and its lawful application is expressly not to form, guide and govern the righteous, but to deal with the lawless and disobedient, ungodly and sinful, unholy and profane, and, in short, with whatever is contrary to sound doctrine (1 Tim 8, 9). Sin, we are told in Romans 6, shall not have dominion over Christians, “for you are not under the law, but under grace”; and this is a chapter where the question is the righteousness walk of the saint, not his justification.

Yet in the face of this clear and uniform teaching of the New Testament, the tendency of most Christians habitually is to go back to law, especially where there is feeble separation from the world. But it is easily understood, for the world does not receive or understand the grace of God, whereas it can appreciate in the letter, the righteous law of God. Hence, where the world and the Christians are mixed together, the will of man soon takes the upper hand. Then, as the Christian cannot elevate the world to his standing, he must inevitably sink to that which he holds in common with the world. Thus both meet once more on Jewish ground, as if the Cross of Christ had never been, and the Holy Spirit was not sent down from heaven to gather believers out of the mixed condition into the Body of Christ apart from the world.

Even for the individual Christian, as well as for the Church and most of all for God’s truth, grace and glory, the loss has been incalculable. For the ordinary walk has been reduced to a string of negatives, save in public acts of philanthropy, religious activity, or ritual observances, which the Christian shares with any and everybody that will join him—plain ecumenism. It is not occupation with good according to God’s will, still less is it suffering for the sake of the Lord Jesus and of righteousness from a world which knows them not. This is not Christianity, though it is the state and the system of most Christians.

Did the Lord Jesus ever obey from the fear of judgment (which the Law threatened due to inability to keep perfectly—NC)? Was not His life a surrender of Himself to the holy will and pleasure of His Father? So our souls are to be occupied with the Father’s grace in His Son, if we are to find strength in pleasing Him. The mere avoidance of evil, the not doing this or that, is below our calling. Do we indeed desire to know and to do the Father’s will as His children? Are we zealous in learning to do well, no less than careful to cease from each evil? If not, the day will come when we may begin to do evil again, and with a conscience the less sensitive, because we have learned truth which we do not carry out.

To talk about the Ten Commandments as the rule for the Christian’s walk now, is to go back from the sun which rules the day to the moon which rules the night; it is to eclipse the Lord Jesus by Moses, under the delusive profession of doing God service. In general, what the law exacted from those under the principle of right, the Christian is responsible on the principle of grace to exceed in every possible way (Mat 5:20—NC). The scope of obedience is immensely increased; the inward motives are searched out and laid bare. The tendency to violence, corruption and falsehood is judged in its roots (old man—NC), and suffering wrongfully and withal in love takes the place of earthly righteousness for the disciples. Such is the unquestionable teaching of our Lord and of His disciples; it is darkened, undermined and denied by those who insist on Judaizing the Church by putting the Christian under the law as his rule of life (which, due to misunderstanding is a recurrence of the past unlearned Jews practice—NC). Truly they “understand neither what they say nor whereof they affirm” (1 Tim 1:7—NC).

Wm Kelly

http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/
 
The #1 reason why are prayers are delayed (not denied) is mixing grace and law. God has said even though you are a heir and the master of the estate, I consider you as a child that equals a slave while you are being schooled by the schoolmaster (law). See Gal.4
 
As I understand it, a judaizer is someone who seeks to get people to behave like Jews. Jesus was a Jew. I want to behave like he did and I want to encourage others to do so. If that makes me a judaizer, then that's okay by me. Jesus was exactly what every Jew should be, and he followed the law perfectly.

The TOG​
 
As I understand it, a judaizer is someone who seeks to get people to behave like Jews. Jesus was a Jew. I want to behave like he did and I want to encourage others to do so. If that makes me a judaizer, then that's okay by me. Jesus was exactly what every Jew should be, and he followed the law perfectly.

The TOG​
Blessings,

Please pray for wisdom! Judaizes mixed grace and law...repent and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you.
 
Blessings,

Please pray for wisdom! Judaizes mixed grace and law...repent and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you.
he isn't doing that. he picks what part of the law that can do without breaking the covenant of grace and worships by that. ie shabat
 
he isn't doing that. he picks what part of the law that can do without breaking the covenant of grace and worships by that. ie shabat
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 NIV
 
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 NIV

Have you ever heard the saying "Every time you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you"? The Sabbath commandment is part of the law. If you haven't kept the Sabbath, then you're guilty of breaking the whole law. At least I'm trying.

The TOG​
 
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 NIV
so im guilty of that simply by desiring to do any feast I can?

but what theres paul. whom did what? he took the nazarite vow. that involved some things under the law.
tog has never said that its required for salvation that one must do the shabat or be kosher or any feast. only that he chooses to do them.sometimes messianic jews come across as legalists and we have work hard not lump them in that group. im guilty of doing that, I nearly accused tog of that.
 
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some im guilty of that simply by desiring to do any feast I can?

but what theres paul. whom did what? he took the nazarite vow. that involved some things under the law.
Jason you mean well however please don't teach this to Christians. Paul has warn anyone that preaches a different gospel they will be double accurse. See Gal.1
 
Jason you mean well however please don't teach this to Christians. Paul has warn anyone that preaches a different gospel they will be double accurse. See Gal.1

show me how you can justify paul not being shown to do the nazarite vow?
Jason you mean well however please don't teach this to Christians. Paul has warn anyone that preaches a different gospel they will be double accurse. See Gal.1
so a Christian shouldn't talk to a messianic rabbi?
 
Love the OP.

Only thing is, it is based on a very big "IF."

IF Adam & Eve never sinned...

See my point?

The BIG picture is that something down here is being carried out with an effect / purpose that is in the spirit realm.

I cannot pinpoint the precise verse, but like the interchange between the Lord and the devil in Job chapters 1 and 2, I deduce from all of scripture that the conflict between God and Satan is organized / orchestrated here in the physical realm with predetermined / agreed upon rules (which is what gave the "prince of persia" the ability to hold back Gabriel in Daniel, and why certain things must needs be, etc.

The glory Christ spoke of regaining was when this realm / history has run its course and it will be proven beyond the shadow of that the Lord is more than just more than fair.
 
Hey guys this is turning to a personal argument .... Not welcome in this forum...

I apologize if I've said anything that violates the rules of this forum. I didn't realize what section this was in. Maybe it would be best to move the thread to another section, since the purpose of the OP seems to have been to accuse those of us here who have stated in other threads that we keep the Sabbath or other parts of the law, without allowing us an opportunity to answer and defend our views, as that would be seen as debating.

The TOG
 
ok, I ask how then does one know how to please god? jesus said if you love me follow my commandments.
Hi JC - The commands of Christ indicated in John 14:15 are those which He brought forth, such as the new command of unconditional love; love one another as He loves us, no longer conditionally, "as we love our-self"; the ordinances of baptism, and the Lord's supper, which are to be followed as Christ commanded.

See John Gill: http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/john/gill/john14.htm
 
As I understand it, a judaizer is someone who seeks to get people to behave like Jews. Jesus was a Jew. I want to behave like he did and I want to encourage others to do so. If that makes me a judaizer, then that's okay by me. Jesus was exactly what every Jew should be, and he followed the law perfectly.

The TOG​
Judaizing is attempting to get someone to follow Judaism. I suggest researching this term in something like Wikipedia or any other useful source. It always is in reference to the Law of the Jews, which is the Mosaic system (Ten Commandments, even the sacrificial and purification ordinances).

Example: "Orthodox Judaism maintains that the Torah and Jewish law are divine in origin, eternal and unalterable, and that they should be strictly followed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism
 
Blessings,

Please pray for wisdom! Judaizes mixed grace and law...repent and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you.
Hi IL - Though you're correct concerning the admixture, you'll get more effective responses if shared less aggressively. Your statement of "repent" has a judging overtone, and if that was not your intention, just choose more cooperative terms, i.e. if you didn't use the word repent it would have been much more effective.

Please excuse me if I've misunderstood your intention, which is hopefully the case.

God's blessings to your Family!
 
Judaizing is attempting to get someone to follow Judaism.

No, that would be a Jewish missionary.

I suggest researching this term in something like Wikipedia or any other useful source.

Good idea. But you have to look up the right word. The link you provided was about Judaism, not judaizers. Here's the dictionary definition of "judaize".

judaize
verb (used without object)
1. to conform to the spirit, character, principles or practices of Judaism.
verb (used with object)
2. to bring into conformity with Judaism.
Source

And here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on judaizers.

Wikipedia said:
Judaizers is predominantly a Christian term, derived from the Greek verb ioudaïzō (ἰουδαΐζω "live according to Jewish customs", see Ioudaios). This term is most widely known from its single use in the Greek New Testament (Galatians 2:14) where Paul publicly challenges Peter for compelling gentile converts to Early Christianity to "judaize", also known as the Incident at Antioch.

This term also includes groups who claim the necessity of continued obedience to the Law of Moses found in the first five books of the Christian Old Testament, although this is sometimes disputed by members of these groups, notably the Seventh-day Adventist Church, as the term Judaizers is typically used as a pejorative.

Source
(Emphasis by TOG)

I said that a judaizer was someone who seeks to get others to "behave like Jews". The Wikipedia article, (which you suggested) says "live according to Jewish customs", and the dictionary says "conform to the spirit, character, principles or practices of Judaism". That sounds like 3 ways of saying the same thing to me. "Following Judaism" (which is what you said), sounds more like conversion.

Example: "Orthodox Judaism maintains that the Torah and Jewish law are divine in origin, eternal and unalterable, and that they should be strictly followed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism

The Torah is the first 5 books of the Bible and the commandments they contain. Do you claim that they are not divine in origin? Are they not part of God's Word? Can God's Word be altered? Should God's commandments not be followed? The law makes up about 20% of the entire Bible. Can we take a fifth of God's Word and discard it because it's irrelevant? I can't believe that you intend to imply any of these things, but those are the implications when people say that the law has been done away with.

I believe that all of the Bible - including the first five books - is God's Word and is to be believed and obeyed. Obeying all of God's Word does tend to make one appear "Jewish". That probably has something to do with the fact that it's a collection of Jewish books, written by and for Jews. The only two books in the entire Bible written by a Gentile are the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts, both written by Luke. All of the first Christians were Jews, and the first Gentile believers were not joining a new religion, but a sect of Judaism.

The TOG​
 
Judaism is living by the Mosaic Law. This is why the phrase Judeo-Christian is a false term (which most still misunderstand), as it attempts the admixture of Judaism and Christianity, which is an evidence of a lack of comprehending the full meaning of Law and Grace. This is not due to willful error but rather to unknowingly misunderstanding the subjects, which are two separate systems, one of which has been "taken away" from the earth (Heb 9:8; 10:9, 20) (Judaism--old dispensation to Israel only / Christianity--new dispensation to all).

One can understand grace enough concerning forgiveness by Christ's atonement, but the comprehension of grace concerning its liberation from sin's dominion is yet to be sufficient among the general Christians of today. This problem is even among well learned Bible students and scholars, but is gradually being understood more all the time as believers choose to "draw near to God."
 
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