Bible Study Context is Critical

[Douglas Summers]

it kinda sounds like you blame kjv for soul sleep. soul sleep was believed long before kjv came into being

Hi Roro, It does not matter when it came along. It is still a false doctrine. The born again believer in Christ shall, "never die". Do you believe Christ? (John 11:21-27) I do.

 

[Malachi]

10) Discussion of Catholic doctrine is allowed only in the One on One Debate and End Times forums. (ToS 2.2)
RCC content in the End Times forum should relate to End Times beliefs. Do not start new topics elsewhere or sway existing threads toward a discussion or debate that may be viewed as ‘Catholic’ in nature.

Reba

 

[Malachi]

Without looking I'd have to say it hasn't changed one jot or tittle..

Absolutely correct. Since the time of Moses (c 1500 BC) the Old Testament Hebrew has remain unchanged. But the pointing of vowels did change in some places.

 

[jasonc]

Absolutely correct. Since the time of Moses (c 1500 BC) the Old Testament Hebrew has remain unchanged. But the pointing of vowels did change in some places.

So THE EXAXT Same Letters UseD Fir YHWH are the same. The Hebrew word for jot is Yud.that is simply a dot.it a bit different in pictographic form in the older scripts found and dated before the dead sea scroll. If it's an iota or jot then that means that is a change.not enough to negate the name as the sound was the same.Hebrew is a cousin to aramaic and evolved from it Abraham is a syrian.he spoke aramiac.nto Hebrew.

 

[reba]

Closed re opened

10) Discussion of Catholic doctrine is allowed only in the One on One Debate and End Times forums. (ToS 2.2)
RCC content in the End Times forum should relate to End Times beliefs. Do not start new topics elsewhere or sway existing threads toward a discussion or debate that may be viewed as ‘Catholic’ in nature.

Reba
The next person who wishes to violate the above will be on read only ..

 

[jasonc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet

its was in the tanakh in the 10th century. look at the alphabet an compare .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet

it is as I say. minor but still an evolution. its not a big problem,

 

[Radagast]

Which of these are Gods words.. they can't both be...

II Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

II Peter 3:9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.

God's words are:

II Peter 3:9: οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας, ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται, ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ δι’ ὑμᾶς, μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι.

A good translation would be: The Lord is not slow to fulfil his promise as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (ESV).

 

[Radagast]

The letters in how it's drawn are way different,the modern Hebrew has no written vowels,whereas biblical era Hebrew did.so yes Hebrew changes.You don't speaketh the ElizabethEan English.Why doth not thou speaketh that?

Biblical Hebrew had no written vowel signs, actually -- they were added in the Middle Ages. Also, several hundred years before Christ, Hebrew switched to using the Aramaic alphabet. But those changes don't affect meaning.

Trickier is the fact that there are some words in Biblical Hebrew for which nobody is sure of the meaning, like "Mazzaroth."

 

[jasonc]

Biblical Hebrew had no written vowel signs, actually -- they were added in the Middle Ages. Also, several hundred years before Christ, Hebrew switched to using the Aramaic alphabet. But those changes don't affect meaning.

Trickier is the fact that there are some words in Biblical Hebrew for which nobody is sure of the meaning, like "Mazzaroth."

I hear the reverse from bibliCal Hebrew university from the state of isreal.they use the tanach to teach the language.all rabbis go there fir training. They teach Hebrew online .

 

[Roro1972]

Hi Roro, It does not matter when it came along. It is still a false doctrine. The born again believer in Christ shall, "never die". Do you believe Christ? (John 11:21-27) I do.

i misunderstood the meaning by the way the post was worded, He explained it to me very well. His example was soul sleep. I certainly know it is not part on the New Covenant that we live by today. I read kjv and believe what is in it. I particularly like the Gospels and all Paul wrote.

 

[Radagast]

I hear the reverse from bibliCal Hebrew university from the state of isreal.they use the tanach to teach the language.all rabbis go there fir training. They teach Hebrew online .

I don't want to debate something that everybody accepts, but you may have misunderstood them. This is Wikipedia:

"In Hebrew orthography, niqqud is a system of diacritical signs used to represent vowels or distinguish between alternative pronunciations of letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Several such diacritical systems were developed in the Early Middle Ages. The most widespread system, and the only one still used to a significant degree today, was created by the Masoretes of Tiberias in the second half of the first millennium AD in the Land of Israel."

"The paleo-Hebrew alphabet was used in the ancient Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Following the exile of the Kingdom of Judah in the 6th century BCE, in the Babylonian exile, Jews began using a form of the Assyrian Aramaic script, which was another offshoot of the same family of scripts. The Samaritans, who remained in the Land of Israel, continued to use the paleo-Hebrew alphabet. During the 3rd century BCE, Jews began to use a stylized, "square" form of the Aramaic alphabet that was used by the Persian Empire (and which in turn had been adopted from the Assyrians)."

 

[Malachi]

What original languages was the bible written in? What is the mother language to Hebrew?

I don't believe this would have any relevance. The printed Hebrew MasoreticText (c. 900 AD) was acceptable to both Jews and Gentiles during the Reformation (15th and 16th centuries), and continued to be accepted as the Traditional Hebrew Text until critics in the 19th century started tampering with. Even the Jewish Publication Society (JPS) deemed the Masoretic Text to be the true text of the Tanakh, and used the King James Translation (primarily) alongside to represent the Hebrew Bible accurately.

The issue is both text and context, and a true interpretation is not possible unless the indwelling Holy Spirit is guiding believers into the truth. So the first requisite is the New Birth, and the second is rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

 

[jasonc]

I don't believe this would have any relevance. The printed Hebrew MasoreticText (c. 900 AD) was acceptable to both Jews and Gentiles during the Reformation (15th and 16th centuries), and continued to be accepted as the Traditional Hebrew Text until critics in the 19th century started tampering with. Even the Jewish Publication Society (JPS) deemed the Masoretic Text to be the true text of the Tanakh, and used the King James Translation (primarily) alongside to represent the Hebrew Bible accurately.

The issue is both text and context, and a true interpretation is not possible unless the indwelling Holy Spirit is guiding believers into the truth. So the first requisite is the New Birth, and the second is rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

The kariates put together the Mss as it was around bUT not widely used.it's more aramaic then Hebrew.it's a guide on how to translate that the word masorah,which means oral .but in the first century which is Not used.was it they had a bad understanding.you elevated the kjv which isn't a bad translation but there are better ones.I do have a chumash translated by rabbis into ElizabethIan english.exodus and some uses of The HeShem are different. Ie praise ye the lord instead of Hallelujah.the chumash will have it praise ye the Lord.of you know the jews.it's common.bias it's going to be there. SAME TEXT,use and meaning not lost.I could go there with the concept of hell,catholic view of that is nowhere near what is taught and yet we aren't abandonin that.why not the case with with penance and other uses of words that become archaic.do you use perchance or albeit daily? No its Maybe and albeit is rare in use.I don't like the name Jehovah.it's biblical bur based on my jw past I won't use it.the connotation is stuck there.No messianic Jew or jew will use that. Let alone say or write the tetragrammation.English is difficult to get a good translation from either Greek ,koine Greek,Hebrew.If you want to say hello in Hebrew it's Shalom.look at that word and its use in the bible.it's not close to Hello at al.yes it's a greeting but more of a blessing which we don't do in the English western culture.we don't have one word that means God will give you peace as you follow the Torah.so it's translated into hello as that is a carry over now in modern Hebrew as a greeting thar they know but have no word to translate easily into English .

I'm sure there's a lot of Hebrew words and Greek that work that way.the Name of God in hebrew doesn't easily translate into Greek. They choose to simply use the word for Lord,as kurios. It has the connotation of slave master.yet the HeShem is way more in nature and the meaning of his names .one word can't describe that.

I prefer the kjv but I have used other translations that are good and learned.ylt while even harder to read then the kjv uses the same texts is useful but very rigid and linear.look up the use of sheol in the tanach from them and compare to the kjv

 

[Radagast]

I don't believe this would have any relevance. The printed Hebrew MasoreticText (c. 900 AD) was acceptable to both Jews and Gentiles during the Reformation (15th and 16th centuries), and continued to be accepted as the Traditional Hebrew Text until critics in the 19th century started tampering with.

There is also the Septuagint, which some prefer, but the (Greek) Septuagint is of course translated from the original Hebrew and Aramaic OT (small parts of the OT were originally written in Aramaic).

The NT was of course originally written in Greek.

 

[Radagast]

The kariates put together the Mss as it was around bUT not widely used.it's more aramaic then Hebrew.

I don't understand what you mean.

I'm sure there's a lot of Hebrew words and Greek that work that way.the Name of God in hebrew doesn't easily translate into Greek. They choose to simply use the word for Lord,as kurios.

Well, when the inspired NT Scriptures do that, we have to take them seriously.

 

[Malachi]

There is also the Septuagint, which some prefer

Yes, the Septuagint is there, but it is a corruption of the Hebrew Bible. Alfred Edersheim has summarized this nicely in The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why do we argue and debate that of something we have no clue how to read unless you are fluent in Hebrew, Latin and Greek. To me this all seems foolish to argue over what one has written and what another has written to contradict that of what the other has written 2.

Personally I use the Holy Spirit along with my KJV and Strong's Exhausted Concordance to study with. After all, isn't it the Holy Spirit that teaches us all things and gives us understanding that brings about knowledge.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Personally I use the Holy Spirit along with my KJV and Strong's Exhausted Concordance to study with. After all, isn't it the Holy Spirit that teaches us all things and gives us understanding that brings about knowledge.

The Holy Spirit is not something we use and then set it back on the Shelf till next time. If you are born of the Spirit of God it is a permanent possession. The Holy Spirit is not given us to use, it is the Holy Spirit that indwells us, and works Through Us. There is no schism in the body of born again believers. For the Holy Spirit teaches the same doctrine to all believers. Doctrines, purpose, Deity, last things are all confirmed in us by the Holy Ghost in unity, not division. And the same honor given to our Lord is given to the Spirit. Nothing is left up to self will...nothing!

 

[for_his_glory]

The Holy Spirit is not something we use and then set it back on the Shelf till next time. If you are born of the Spirit of God it is a permanent possession. The Holy Spirit is not given us to use, it is the Holy Spirit that indwells us, and works Through Us. There is no schism in the body of born again believers. For the Holy Spirit teaches the same doctrine to all believers. Doctrines, purpose, Deity, last things are all confirmed in us by the Holy Ghost in unity, not division. And the same honor given to our Lord is given to the Spirit. Nothing is left up to self will...nothing!

You do read into something that is not there don't you. I never said we only use the Holy Spirit and then put him on a shelf. I said I study by allowing the Holy Spirit teach me, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Douglas Summers]

You do read into something that is not there don't you. I never said we only use the Holy Spirit and then put him on a shelf. I said I study by allowing the Holy Spirit teach me, nothing more nothing less.

Be careful how you word things when speaking of the Deity of God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) The way you worded your post would be an insult to the Spirit of Grace to those it indwells. While none of us are worthy of such grace, nevertheless we are zealous for it's gifts and fellowship. I'm sorry that i did not understand what you were trying to say, but deity should always be glorified by association.