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conversion to christianity

M

Mugen

Guest
Can you remember in complete history from past and present there are priests or pastors embraced Islam ?

Can you remember any of one of the days in past history or now that a Sheikh or a Muslim scholar becoming a Christian?
 
I'm sure there are examples of both.

Why? Whats your line? :confused:
 
Mugen said:
you seem misunderstood my question , I'm asking about Sheikh that embraced christianity not normal muslimes poeple
Click to expand...

On that link there was at least one Sheikh named. I did not look at the complete list, because I stopped after seeing the name of one Sheikh (since you only asked for one). The answer is there.


Your question is a poor question, as others have mentioned there are examples in both religions.

The majority of converts to both religions are individuals who never really knew, nor practiced, their former religion in the first place. All over the place, the majority of converts to Islam that I see are individuals who were never "Christians" to begin with. Many came from catholic backgrounds or from "christian" homes that were christian in name only (which is not christian).

I'm sure you would say the same is true about individuals who convert from Islam to Christianity. That the majority come from homes where they are muslim in name only.

Although this is true for the majority, it is not true for all individuals. There are exceptions.
 
Mugen said:
then If you are really sure then name one Sheikh that embraced christianity only 1 at least
Click to expand...

Um...ok....I cannot name a sheik who has converted to Christianity...

......so........whats your line?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,whats next?
 
Mujahid Abdullah said:
I will say, however, that I have noticed a disproportionate amount of christian clerics renounce christianity and adopt Islam - A senior Talib of my Sheikh became Muslim while attending semminary school - He was a staunch christian his whole life, so much so that he chose to go to semminary college, where he found Islam. But the christian standdard of sscholar and cleric is defined much differently than the Islamic standers of cleric and scholar - the most respected christian scholars are equivalent to people like Hamza Yusuf or Zaid Shakir - according to Islamic definitions these men are not qualified to be Shuyukh or Faquha, but are well educated Alims and lecturers.
Click to expand...

I agree, but also I disagree. The Christian standards vary so greatly, that virtually anyone could be a "Pastor" of a church, even with zero qualifications. It might be better to compare a Christian minister/ Pastor more to an Imam (or someone even lesser).

I know people like to point at Yusuf Estes as an example of a Christian minister who converted to Islam, but from my understanding he was in music ministry, correct? This, imo, is not the same thing as if say........ Dr. D. James Kennedy.... or someone like him had decided to convert. I have been in churches that hire and pay professional musicians to lead their music ministry (regardless of any personal religious affiliation). Or another example... there is a girl on another forum who mentioned her mother was a minister before she converted. I asked her what form of ministry her mother did, and she said she was over the children's ministry at their church. Again, that type of ministerial position is not the same, nor does it hold the same qualifications, as other forms of positions. I mentioned in a thread yesterday about an atheist man who teaches children in church (he could be called a "minister" as well, yet he is not even a Christian).

So, I agree with you that it is a good point about the credentials are not the same. In that sense, comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

I would write more, but I need to leave for church. ;)
 
Deavonreye said:
It doesn't matter, Mujahid. I see both religions equally as absurd.
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Um....excuse me? :sad

I dont think referring to Christianity as absurd is gonna go down too well with most people here and especially the mods.

And also talking about Islam that way is extremely disrespectful to our Muslim members.
 
If the OP is Muslim and he's trying to prove that loads of Christians are turning to Islam....then all he's really proving is that New Testament prophecy is spot on!

2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Original Word: ἀποστασία
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: falling away​

Word Origin

from aphistémi

Definition

defection, revolt

NASB Word Usage

apostasy (1), forsake (1).


So the point of this thread is that we're near the end! Cool.

Come Jesus. :pray​
 
True, I'm not christian, Mujahid, . . . nor do I say what I say to disrespect anyone, it is just my own personal opinion. I see no value in either belief structure.
Perhaps I should have used the word "unreasonable" instead of "absurd" out of respect, so I will change it to "unreasonable".

It is unreasonable TO ME to believe either due to the complete lack of evidence, but also because both beliefs must be "believed by faith" of the claims. To me, outside of evidence or a REAL personal experience, it is as unreasonable as any other belief structure.
 
Actually, I'm not an atheist. I consider myself more of an agnostic or deist. I don't have any evidence of any gods, specific to myself, but am willing for an encounter that would be real to me. I'm conflicted, true. I see part of myself to be unreasonable, but that part doesn't care, especially if it encounters the supernatural.

Anyway, glad I didn't offend.
 
Mugen said:
Can you remember in complete history from past and present there are priests or pastors embraced Islam ?

Can you remember any of one of the days in past history or now that a Sheikh or a Muslim scholar becoming a Christian?
Click to expand...

Here's a better way of looking at it.

If a Christian converts to Islam he loses nothing.

If a Muslim converts to Christianity he loses EVERYTHING.

A Christian who converts to Islam may face a disappointed family, some anger, some sadness, and some estrangement from his family.

A Muslim who converts to Christianity is cut off from his family, loses his inheritance, and even worse has 3 days to recant or is to be MURDERED.

So you tell me which holds more weight?

The Christian convert to Islam who loses nothing by converting?

OR

The Muslim convert to Christianity who is to be murdered for converting and still decides to convert?

Despite the fact that they will be tortured, persecuted, despised, and MURDERED for their belief in Christ, they are still willing to convert. They are willing to DIE. What did they find that they are willing to die for Christ?

Hmmmmmmm......... :chin

Dwell on that for a while Mugen ;)
 
.

I have a Muslim friend who goes with me to church sometimes. She is very interested in Christianity and even went to buy a Bible on her own. Till now, her family doesn't know. I had another Muslim friend who was very interested in church but eventually backed off due to fear of family. They're not the only ones I know, many other Muslim-to-Christian converts I know are living as "secret Christians". Some retain their Muslim names. One of them told us that he does not want to change his name because he's trying to witness to other Muslims about Christianity and feels that retention of his Muslim name could help. There are also some ex-Muslim guys serving in my church and in other churches where I live, but their families do not know.

On the other hand, if we know of a Christian who has fallen out, all we do to is to pray for that person, who is still very much welcomed in our midst. Where I live, it's actually pretty common to see Muslims coming to churches. We once had a large goup of Muslim women coming to my weekend church services, complete with their tudung (hijab) and Muslim attires. We also have Muslims coming to seek healing and deliverance in my church because they know that Jesus heals and delivers. We have many reports of intant healings taking place among Muslims. God is so gracious !



:clap :clap :thumbsup :thumbsup
 
theLords said:
Here's a better way of looking at it.

If a Christian converts to Islam he loses nothing.

If a Muslim converts to Christianity he loses EVERYTHING.

A Christian who converts to Islam may face a disappointed family, some anger, some sadness, and some estrangement from his family.

A Muslim who converts to Christianity is cut off from his family, loses his inheritance, and even worse has 3 days to recant or is to be MURDERED.

So you tell me which holds more weight?

The Christian convert to Islam who loses nothing by converting?

OR

The Muslim convert to Christianity who is to be murdered for converting and still decides to convert?

Despite the fact that they will be tortured, persecuted, despised, and MURDERED for their belief in Christ, they are still willing to convert. They are willing to DIE. What did they find that they are willing to die for Christ?

Hmmmmmmm......... :chin

Dwell on that for a while Mugen ;)
Click to expand...

Do not object on muslims if they apply the punishment for apostasy for the ones who leaves islam because according to your bible it’s applied too


Deuteronomy 13) New International Version)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...13&version=NIV


6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death,

Hosea 13) New International Version)


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...13&version=NIV


16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open."

Luke 19) New International Version)


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...19&version=NIV


27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."


Do not forget that in islam they must be sure and check before they apply the limit but in the bible they kill directly without checking

So Do not object
 
Mugen said:
Do not object on muslims if they apply the punishment for apostasy for the ones who leaves islam because according to your bible it’s applied too
Click to expand...


Mugen....

That stuff was for the Old Testament Hebrews.

That doesn't apply to us Christians in todays world. We're under the New Covenant.

7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he
be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the
unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your
children unclean; but now are they holy.

7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is
not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

No killing involved Mugen. God hath called us to peace.​
 
Strangelove said:
Mugen....

That stuff was for the Old Testament Hebrews.

That doesn't apply to us Christians in todays world. We're under the New Covenant.

7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he
be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.​

7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the
unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your
children unclean; but now are they holy.​

7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is
not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.​

No killing involved Mugen. God hath called us to peace.​
Click to expand...


The Lord says

[KJV][Mt.5.17][Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.]

isn't that written in your law

And has all the Prophecies
 
Mugen said:
The Lord says

[KJV][Mt.5.17][Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.]

isn't that written in your law

And has all the Prophecies
Click to expand...

Precisely, the Lord came to fulfill the Law of Atonement. He did not destroy the Law of Morality (i.e. 10 commandments)

If you're going to come and argue on a Christian forum you should at least know the basic concepts of Christianity.

So which carries more weight? The Christian convert to Islam who loses nothing? OR The Muslim convert to Christianity who will die for his faith? and Why? :chin ;)
 
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