What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced?

J

JAG ..

Member
I am a Christian and I am pro-life and hold against abortion. However I do not believe that the Christian moral code can be codified and enforced apart from a police state. I do not want to see America become a police state. Nor the world.

In order to actually enforce laws against abortion where abortion was actually stopped, would require a level of Courts and Police Severity that would require sustained brutality --- it would change America into a brutal police state.

My view is there is only one way to codify the Christian Moral Code into law and enforce it. And this way is through the gradual incremental peaceful Christianization of the nations of the Earth, so that the populations of all nations are overwhelmingly Christian and voluntarily keep God's laws from the heart. (Note: This thread is NOT to discuss my optimistic bright cheerful views of the future of the Christian Church.)

My view is that there will come a time in the far off future in human history, where all the nations of the Earth will be Christianized with vast majorities of Christian populations that will "love God with all their hearts" and "love their neighbor as they love themselves" --- and will therefore NOT create the "abortion problem" in the first place. (Note: This Opening Post and this thread is NOT to discuss my optimistic Eschatological views of the future of the magnificent victorious Christian Church.)

My view is that its impossible to FORCE a world with some 7.5 billion people to do what is right with laws backed up with courts and a POLICE-FORCE. America has over 2,000,000 people in it's jails and prisons. FORCE is not working. (NO, I am NOT against the laws we do have. YES ,it would be much worse if we had no laws)

All nations have laws that they attempt to enforce --- but the entire Earth now is saturated with law-breakers and crime.

I'm NOT against laws. I just recognize that that the hearts of human beings have to be changed by the supernatural power of the gospel, before the world's some 7.5 billion people are going to voluntarily and peacefully keep the Christian Moral Code . . .

. . .meanwhile the world will continue to be plagued with abortion, prostitution, rapes, murders, shootings, assault and battery, armed robbery, drunkenness, thievery, bearing false witness, white collar crime, fraud, scams, and all the other evil actions that plague this present 22nd century world.

By the way, how does the gospel change hearts and minds. Its very simple. Here are the steps:

(1) John 3:3 The Lord Jesus said you had to be born again. This changes your nature.

(2) John 3:16 The New testament says you have to accept the Lord Jesus as your Savior. This changes your legal relationship to God. (See also Romans 5:1 )

(3) Galatians 5:22-23 says that now after (1) and (2) has occurred, you can then be taught by the Holy Spirit to manifest the fruits of the Holy Spirit in your life, which fruits are as follows:

(a) love
(b) joy
(c) peace
(d) patience
(e) kindness
(f) goodness
(g) faithfulness
(h) gentleness
(I) self-control

A nation of people with those fruits are not going to have an abortion problem in the first place . . .

. . . and no prostitution, rapes, murders, shootings, assault and battery, armed robbery, drunkenness, thievery, bearing false witness, white collar crime, fraud, scams, etc

What say you?

Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced? Can abortions be actually stopped with legislation (laws) backed up with police FORCE?

(Please stay on the subject of the title to this thread. This thread is NOT about Christian Eschatology and my views regarding the bright optimistic successful victorious future of the Christian Church. )
 
JAG .. said:
I am a Christian and I am pro-life and hold against abortion. However I do not believe that the Christian moral code can be codified and enforced apart from a police state. I do not want to see America become a police state. Nor the world.

In order to actually enforce laws against abortion where abortion was actually stopped, would require a level of Courts and Police Severity that would require sustained brutality --- it would change America into a brutal police state.
Click to expand...
all you have to do is close down abortion clinics as they would be illegal -

i never understood why people think killing a baby is ok -
 
Last edited:
Truthfrees said:
why police state tactics? - all you have to do is close down abortion clinics as they would be illegal -

if killing babies is a crime then maybe people will take smarter humane routes to not having children - like maybe surgical sterilization or birth control or abstinence?

i never understood why people think killing a baby is ok - what a crazy way to do family planning/planned parenthood
Click to expand...

Truthfrees,

Thanks for your comments and for reading my Opening Post.

"all you have to do is close down abortion clinics as they would be illegal"__Truthfrees

My view is that if the state closed down legal abortion clinics, that would create a huge underground "black market" abortion industry that would spring up in every state in America and in other countries as well that would be quick to capitalize on this new American market for now illegal abortions. My view is that abortion would become exactly like the market for illegal booze in the days of Prohibition. The booze and whiskey flowed freely in spite of laws against the booze industry.

That said, I am in sympathy with the spirit of your comments and I understand and highly respect your point of view. I would like to see abortion STOPPED --- but I believe the only way to stop abortion is the process of John 3:3 , John 3:16, and
Galatians 5:22-23 as explained in my Opening Post.
 
Just a general comment on the human condition.

The Sin Principle within humanity has created a major ultra-serious dilemma
that has produced situations that are ultra-confusing and plagued with
being caught between a "rock and a hard place" so to speak --- that means
that humanity is in serious trouble if "they do" and if "they do not" on many
issues --often where the cure is as bad or worse than the disease.

I am not a prophet and I am totally 100% optimistic about the future of the
Christian Church and the human race -- over the long term of future
millenniums.

Nonetheless this COVID-19 virus can end up being an example of the human
race being caught between a "rock and a hard place" in that humanity may
have to choose between:

(1) losing a really large number of human lives due to re-opening the world for
business and economic survival and letting this COVID-19 virus do whatever
it will do.

OR . . .

(2) a Global Economic Depression (that ends up costing a large number of human lives)
If the world does not re-open soon, then there is going to be a breakdown of law
and order on a HUGE-ENORMOUS scale.


The United States Government just sent me and my family a check for $2400.00 dollars
in an effort to stimulate this economy. Millions of other families got the same check and millions got $3400.00 -- the US Government doing such as that CANNOT be sustained.

Back to the germs . . .

The "experts" on this COVID-19 virus contradict themselves and exaggerate to their
hearts content. I don't think any of them have any actual science on what this
COVID-19 virus is going to do in the next 2 years or longer.

_______


I sometimes think about 2 Chron. 7:14 with regard to the COVID-19 virus pandemic?

I wonder if the verse applies to us today? America has a lot of sins that she tolerates
in the name of "civil rights" and other euphemisms in order to cover up or smooth out
some really bad sins.

"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves
and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then
I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal
their land."___2 Chron. 7:14
 
JAG .. said:
Truthfrees,

Thanks for your comments and for reading my Opening Post.

"all you have to do is close down abortion clinics as they would be illegal"__Truthfrees

My view is that if the state closed down legal abortion clinics, that would create a huge underground "black market" abortion industry that would spring up in every state in America and in other countries as well that would be quick to capitalize on this new American market for now illegal abortions. My view is that abortion would become exactly like the market for illegal booze in the days of Prohibition. The booze and whiskey flowed freely in spite of laws against the booze industry.

That said, I am in sympathy with the spirit of your comments and I understand and highly respect your point of view. I would like to see abortion STOPPED --- but I believe the only way to stop abortion is the process of John 3:3 , John 3:16, and
Galatians 5:22-23 as explained in my Opening Post.
Click to expand...
Best legalize and allow slavery ,its been black market since the civil,war.

Sure you,might have some but well,any,law will have that problem.

Anti hate laws don't stop hatred ,racism didn't die with the civil rights act ,but surely you can agree that systemic denial of equal education,health care to minorities was horrible and while not perfect today much better.
 
jasonc said:
Best legalize and allow slavery ,its been black market since the civil,war.

Sure you,might have some but well,any,law will have that problem.

Anti hate laws don't stop hatred ,racism didn't die with the civil rights act ,but surely you can agree that systemic denial of equal education,health care to minorities was horrible and while not perfect today much better.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input jasonc.

The title of my thread "Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced?" --- is controversial and there are no easy answers to the question.

My view is that the laws could NOT be actually enforced -- for the reasons I have given in this thread and down below in this post.

However . . .

Yes if abortion was outlawed that would indeed REDUCE the number of abortions that occurred. But it would also INCREASE the number of mothers who died or were severely physically damaged from going to shoddy "black market" abortion houses to get abortions from unskilled "nurses" who learned how to perform abortions from reading on the Internet or from "watching" other "nurses" perform them.

It would also create a "black market" in other countries that would quickly establish abortion clinics or their own shoddy "abortion houses" to reap the $$ economic benefits from the huge American market for abortions. For example the near-by Central American countries. Remember the title of my thread is "Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced? And my view is the answer is no they could not be actually enforced.

Regarding your points . . .

I agree with laws against slavery and I agree with laws that protect the Civil Rights of all people.

By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
 
JAG .. said:
My view is that if the state closed down legal abortion clinics, that would create a huge underground "black market" abortion industry that would spring up in every state in America and in other countries as well that would be quick to capitalize on this new American market for now illegal abortions. My view is that abortion would become exactly like the market for illegal booze in the days of Prohibition. The booze and whiskey flowed freely in spite of laws against the booze industry.
Click to expand...
it may but i wouldn't condone "legal" murder for the reason that it would cause murder to go underground
 
Last edited:
JAG .. said:
Thanks for your input jasonc.

The title of my thread "Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced?" --- is controversial and there are no easy answers to the question.

My view is that the laws could NOT be actually enforced -- for the reasons I have given in this thread and down below in this post.

However . . .

Yes if abortion was outlawed that would indeed REDUCE the number of abortions that occurred. But it would also INCREASE the number of mothers who died or were severely physically damaged from going to shoddy "black market" abortion houses to get abortions from unskilled "nurses" who learned how to perform abortions from reading on the Internet or from "watching" other "nurses" perform them.

It would also create a "black market" in other countries that would quickly establish abortion clinics or their own shoddy "abortion houses" to reap the $$ economic benefits from the huge American market for abortions. For example the near-by Central American countries. Remember the title of my thread is "Could Laws Against Abortion Be Actually Enforced? And my view is the answer is no they could not be actually enforced.

Regarding your points . . .

I agree with laws against slavery and I agree with laws that protect the Civil Rights of all people.

By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
Click to expand...
Your argument fails in that women don't need an ob gyn to have an abortion ,and mothers do die from,abortions done in,clinics .


The argument based upon back door abortions is,based on the lie told to make it legal in,all 50. My,state has few providers and in some states while not illegal ,no abortion clinics exists .
 
Truthfrees said:
it may but i wouldn't condone "legal" murder for the reason that it would cause murder to go underground

stopping babies from being murdered is not in the same sphere as prohibiting alcohol - that was just silliness - i don't drink but Jesus did so not sure what prohibition was based on

making murder costly to the murderer imo is the right thing to do

making murder free and easy for the murderer is wrong

why is it we don't call murder murder - babies are lumps of flesh/fetuses/not alive? - murder is abortion?
Click to expand...


Truthfrees,
Thank you for your comments and for your views.
I don't condone legal murder.
I do not agree that my point about Prohibition was "just silliness."
I do not disagree that abortion is murder.
My view is that nothing I have posted in this thread is incorrect.

By the way, I previously said this:

JAG Wrote:

By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
 
jasonc said:
Your argument fails in that women don't need an ob gyn to have an abortion ,and mothers do die from,abortions done in,clinics .


The argument based upon back door abortions is,based on the lie told to make it legal in,all 50. My,state has few providers and in some states while not illegal ,no abortion clinics exists .
Click to expand...

By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
 
jasonc said:
www.mccl.org

The coat hanger is a lie: Why the 'back-alley abortion' argument fails

The image of a coat hanger has long served as a symbol of the importance of legalized abortion. That symbol is based on a lie. Before the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision, which legalized abortion nationwide, many advocates of legalization claimed that thousands of women died each year...
www.mccl.org www.mccl.org
Click to expand...

By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
 
JAG .. said:
By the way, I do NOT have strong feelings AGAINST laws prohibiting abortions.

I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
Click to expand...
Strange one wants slavery to remain illegal when mothers are separated from kids ,sold themselves into slavery and their kids in,the united states.

Three types of these rings found in,my,t own

100s of thousands per year in,the u.s,slavery laws quite effective eh?



www.google.com

20 staggering facts about human trafficking in the US

We've compiled a number of staggering facts about what's really going on with human trafficking in the US, also known as modern day slavery.
www.google.com www.google.com

No law will stop those that want to anything .
 
JAG .. said:
I just do not believe those laws can be enforced as I explained in my Opening Post and follow-up posts --- but I have no challenge to make against you believing that there ought to be laws against abortion --- if that is what you believe.
Click to expand...
actually what i really said is it is easy to enforce anti-abortion laws - keep the abortion clinics closed as illegal businesses
 
Last edited:
we have to remember that 99% of all abortions are CONVENIENCE

1% of all abortions are to save the life of the mother -
 
Last edited:
You have to start somewhere. Enforcement of abortion starts with punishments for abortion. Start on the doctors and clinics that provide abortions and they will quit once there is a cost for continuing the practice.

The unfortunately thing is that abortion is an industry. It's been very cautious of presenting it's image and lobbying how much of a group are allowed to come to their service, that now it's intrenched in people's minds that abortion is a right along the same lines as any civil rights movement; while at the same time the scope of abortions performed and their cost of doing them provides clinics make so much money that no one's paying attention.

Make it hurt to perform an abortion and things will change. The simple act of losing your doctor's license, receiving a huge fine, or jail time will make doctors question if they should do the service. Do this and the profits decrease. Decreased profits will influence the marketing of abortion and the lobbying of abortion (which I'm sure costs a lot of money).

This alone won't solve the issue, but it should help eredicate the pest problem by at least getting started at cleaning up the sources with abortion clinics, and to be able to voice how wrong abortion is without the lobby and PR portions of abortion being so strong and influencing society.

No matter how you look at it, you have to start somewhere. And making it illegal is a good starting place in my opinion.
 
Truthfrees said:
i didn't mean that your point was silly - i meant prohibition was silly - i don't know why they even did that - apologies for wording my post in such a way that it sounded like i was saying your point was silly
Click to expand...

Truthfrees,
I understand and thank you for the clarification.
God bless.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top