Could The USA Be Babylon?

[John 8:32]

THe US is not babylon, but is pretty damn close to it. The US is in prophecy, though.... We are a great nation built on freedom of religion. That in itself is both a curse and a blessing.

Gen 48:13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.
Gen 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The name of Israel was attached to Ephraim and Manasseh, not Judah or the other ten.

Gen 48:17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
Gen 48:18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
Gen 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great:

U.S. has become the single greatest nation on the earth.

but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

The British Empire was the greatest group of nations ever.

Gen 48:20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
Gen 48:21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bring you again unto the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

A full portion was given to Ephraim and a full portion to Manasseh. They did not share one portion of the birthrite between them.

Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Gibraltar, The Cape of Good Hope and the English Channel/North Sea maritime corridor to Europe, the Suez Canal and the Panama Canal, Hong Kong, Singapore, Gibraltar, Falklands, Philippines, Malta, Heligoland, Cyprus, Khyber Pass, etc.

Yep, the U.S. is mentioned in prophecy, so is Britain, Canada, Australia and South Africa.

 

[John 8:32]

A little more...

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

A colonizing people.

Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

Does anyone really believe that Yankee Ingenuity won the first and second world wars? Where does one find the Stone of Scone? (Liafail, the Stone of Destiny, Jacob's Pillar Stone)

Gen 49:25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Gen 49:26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

The greatest blessings were given to Ephraim and Manasseh. Who were the richest nations on earth?

 

[Sinthesis]

British Israelism is just carnal and silly. The various components of western civilization will continue to thrive so long as they exhibit Christian values with respect to the rest of the world. Satan has not been the god of this world for a very long time. Yet still, even two thousand years later, some people give themselves over to anxiety as to whether or not Christ is omnipotent. Your security and salvation rest with Christ, not your fallible interpretation of the ebb and flow of world events.

 

[digging]

Dear Mitspa,

Sorry about not making myself clear on the points I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that I see Babylon the Great as a single symbol describing a global collective of people united in the pursuit of physical things.

I don't believe the nations of the world have the ability to create a real single govt organized by men, the world at this time is as cooperative as I think it will ever get. I see this joint 'working together' as the moment of the 10 kings ruling with the beast.

One more point that is important to understand just my personal views on the symbol images in Revelation. I see both the beast and the harlot as really made up of people, but people from different angles or in different rolls. I see the 7 headed beast as representing the military violent part used through out history to created civilizations(harlot), but the time is coming for this union to begin to fall apart as the kingdoms of men built on violence begin to fail in caring for people(civilization) as we are seeing more and more today.

I also agree very much with John that a real decline in the human population is coming very soon and this drop in population is also illustrated in the drying up of the river in revelation.

Digging

 

[wayseer]

Dear Mitspa,

Sorry about not making myself clear on the points I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that I see Babylon the Great as a single symbol describing a global collective of people united in the pursuit of physical things.

Now you are on to something.

Could 'Babylon' be our own inability to tell the difference between 'wants' and 'needs'?

 

[Mitspa]

Dear Mitspa,

Sorry about not making myself clear on the points I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that I see Babylon the Great as a single symbol describing a global collective of people united in the pursuit of physical things.

I don't believe the nations of the world have the ability to create a real single govt organized by men, the world at this time is as cooperative as I think it will ever get. I see this joint 'working together' as the moment of the 10 kings ruling with the beast.

One more point that is important to understand just my personal views on the symbol images in Revelation. I see both the beast and the harlot as really made up of people, but people from different angles or in different rolls. I see the 7 headed beast as representing the military violent part used through out history to created civilizations(harlot), but the time is coming for this union to begin to fall apart as the kingdoms of men built on violence begin to fail in caring for people(civilization) as we are seeing more and more today.

I also agree very much with John that a real decline in the human population is coming very soon and this drop in population is also illustrated in the drying up of the river in revelation.

Digging

I see your point! not sure altogether that I agree with it all? But I do see the honest attitude you take in regards to the scriptures. I think more of these things will become clear as the end draws near? For those who in Christ and live by the Spirit of truth, even the hidden things will be made manifest.
Blessings and peace to all who look to Christ. Mitspa

 

[digging]

I agree it is connected to our fleshly desires, "She" is what we become when we put the flesh above everything else. Look at the similar language in these vs.

Genesis 3:6 NAS
New American Standard
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate ; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

Revelation 18:14 NAS

"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.

Clearly there is a connection here, a link to the cravings people can have that can lead us into sin.(commiting harm some how) Just as Eve first did by looking at the fruit and allowing herself to long for it, to crave it etc.

I so agree it comes down to a choice between wanting and needing. Adam and Eve did not NEED of that tree and God created them with the ability to choose spiritual things over physical, they could have chosen the spiritual food instead.

Babylon is the opposite to the new city Jerusalem, two groups of people motived by opposite things, one fleshly the other spiritual.

Digging

 

[Edward]

Wow, I see I am clearly in a minority here (or perhaps the only one) to think that Biblical references to Babylon could be literal and speaking of an actual nation of peoples. Revelation is perhaps the hardest book in the Bible to understand (at least for me). One may perhaps have to be very very close to God to really understand it. I am going to have to meditate and pray about these things, lest I be deceived. I will admit that you guys make plausible sense in what you write. Hmmm.

 

[Mitspa]

Wow, I see I am clearly in a minority here (or perhaps the only one) to think that Biblical references to Babylon could be literal and speaking of an actual nation of peoples. Revelation is perhaps the hardest book in the Bible to understand (at least for me). One may perhaps have to be very very close to God to really understand it. I am going to have to meditate and pray about these things, lest I be deceived. I will admit that you guys make plausible sense in what you write. Hmmm.

I would not say that you are alone in your veiw? I would say that God will show the sercret things to those who dwell in the Secret Place of the Most High!

John went into the Spiritual realm, eternal realm where time and space are very much different than what mans mind can understand. Also God speaks in parables and types, I do not think that anyone who is not "spiritual" in the biblical sense of the word, can know any of what John is writting.
Not talking about these nuts and flakes that act as if they are seeing spiritual beings and such! "Spiritual" in the sense that they have yeilded their life to The Life of Christ in the Spirit.
Now some of these folks are shown such things, but if one knows the scriptures you can tell which are living examples of His Life.

 

[Contrarian]

If you compare the traits of Babylon to all of the countries in this world, which country comes closest?

In my opinion, the US is the Babylon of this age.

That doesn't mean its THE Babylon.

 

[Sinthesis]

Wow, I see I am clearly in a minority here (or perhaps the only one) to think that Biblical references to Babylon could be literal and speaking of an actual nation of peoples. Revelation is perhaps the hardest book in the Bible to understand (at least for me). One may perhaps have to be very very close to God to really understand it. I am going to have to meditate and pray about these things, lest I be deceived. I will admit that you guys make plausible sense in what you write. Hmmm.

If the biblical references in Revelation to Babylon were strictly literal, then by definition Babylon could not be the USA. Clearly then, the key to identifying Babylon lies in the symbolism, rather than the literal words. Revelation is speaking of an actual nation of peoples, and the symbolism found throughout the bible allows us to identify exactly who they were, why they were referred to as Babylon, and therefore, who resembles them today.

 

[reba]

Wow, I see I am clearly in a minority here (or perhaps the only one) to think that Biblical references to Babylon could be literal and speaking of an actual nation of peoples. Revelation is perhaps the hardest book in the Bible to understand (at least for me). One may perhaps have to be very very close to God to really understand it. I am going to have to meditate and pray about these things, lest I be deceived. I will admit that you guys make plausible sense in what you write. Hmmm.

I tend to believe The Revelation hits on all levels.... It is the revealing of Christ who was, is, and will be...

 

[Edward]

If the biblical references in Revelation to Babylon were strictly literal, then by definition Babylon could not be the USA. Clearly then, the key to identifying Babylon lies in the symbolism, rather than the literal words. Revelation is speaking of an actual nation of peoples, and the symbolism found throughout the bible allows us to identify exactly who they were, why they were referred to as Babylon, and therefore, who resembles them today.

Could you supply me with the exact verses that you refer to in your first sentence, please?

 

[Mitspa]

If you compare the traits of Babylon to all of the countries in this world, which country comes closest?

In my opinion, the US is the Babylon of this age.

That doesn't mean its THE Babylon.

If the US "in general" is not the mother of babylon? it sure is one of the children. "Let us make a name for ourselves"

The twin towers were clearly a sign pointing to babylon. The UN is babylon. The world trading and world governement and world religion, are all part of babylon.

I do not pretend to understand what God has not shown me? but I think some of these things are very clear?

 

[Dustoftheearth]

I believe that it is the RCC.

God says to 'come out of her my people'. If it was the US (or any country) then I don't see that God would say come out of her.

 

[Sinthesis]

Could you supply me with the exact verses that you refer to in your first sentence, please?

Rev 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2, 18:10, 18:21

 

[Mitspa]

I believe that it is the RCC.

God says to 'come out of her my people'. If it was the US (or any country) then I don't see that God would say come out of her.

I agree that a harlot rides upon the beast. But the understanding of being in this world and "coming out" out it by faith and life in the Spirit is a common understanding of scripture. So we could be in the babylon system and yet be as Dan, and the others and refuse to dance to its tune or partake of its idols.
So then part of your point? is not a very good one, in my understanding of the truth. For instance we who are IN CHRIST should have come out of the world. I am surrounded by ungodly people yet I am not a part of their ungodly ways.

 

[Edward]

If the US "in general" is not the mother of babylon?

I thought it might be England? England is kind of the US's mother, and isn't their flag a lion with wings?

Thanks, Sinthesis. I'll study those verses more closely.

 

[King James]

England is the mother.
Jeremiah 50:12
Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bore you shall be ashamed: behold, the last of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

 

[Edward]

Interesting