Drew said:
Eccl12and13 said:
I would like to understand one thing Drew. Are you saying that EACH time Paul speak of the 'law' he is ALWAYS talking about ALL 613?
Yes. But I grant you that this a complex matter indeed. Paul has a very complex and subtle view of the law and its status in the post-resurrection era.
First of all, I know this thinking is new to most, but if you could bear with this reply you may just learn something:
The law that Paul speaks of in Heb. does NOT affect the entire 613 laws. The law that was changed ONLY applies to the Law of the Ministry of the Levites.
First let’s go to the OT to find when THIS Law was first instituted:
Num. 8
[6] Take the Levites from among the children of Israel, and cleanse them.
[19] And I have given the Levites as a gift to Aaron and to his sons from among the children of Israel, to do the service of the children of Israel in the tabernacle of the congregation, and to make an atonement for the children of Israel:
[22] And after that went the Levites in to do their service in the tabernacle of the congregation before Aaron, and before his sons: as the LORD had commanded Moses concerning the Levites, so did they unto them.
Num.18
[7] Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priest's office for every thing of the altar, and within the vail; and ye shall serve: I have given your priest's office unto you as a service of gift: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
[8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.
So we see that the commandment of God for the service of the temple was given ONLY to the sons of Levi. No one else could make an atonement for the sins of the people. This was Gods LAW!
Now Paul said a ‘Law was changed. Let’s find the ‘Law that was changed!
Heb. 7
[5] And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
According to the Levitical Priesthood law.
[11] If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
The job of the Levites was to perform the sacrifices that would take away the sins of the people, but killing bulls and goats could not make the people perfect. Because if they could why would we need ANOTHER priest? A priest NOT after the order of Aaron!
And this is what Paul is saying here:
Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
So the Law spoken of was the Law that pertained to those sacrifices, again this was the ‘Law’ of the Levitical Priesthood
But there was a priest that could do the job and remove ALL the sins from ALL the people. The only thing was that Gods Law said the High Priest HAD to come from the order of Aaron. So there had to be a change in the Law. But not a change in the WHOLE law, just the Levitical Priesthood Law.
[12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[13] For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[14] For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Our Lord was not of the tribe from which God said the Priest MUST come from!
[19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Now again, what law was it that made nothing perfect? The one Paul spoke of above:
Heb. 10:
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Paul was NOT talking about the WHOLE Law, only part of the Law. Not ALL 613, but just the law that dealt with the sacrifices.
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
[24] But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
[27] Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
[28] For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
Now which law is it that maketh men high priest? It is the law of the priesthood. Not the totality of the 613 laws. Just this PART of the 613. The Levitical Priesthood part.
So again I must ask the question, was Paul ALWAYS talking about ALL 613 laws whenever he was speaking about Laws or could he be talking about certain parts of the Law? The answer is obvious.
And as I have asked in other post, how do you distinguish which part of the law Paul is talking about when reading his writings?
Hence my other questions, What was the Law that was added? What was the Law that was nailed to the cross? What was the law that was changed?
Well we know for a fact that the law that was changed was the Levitical Priesthood law. And since we know that Christ is at this very moment still our ‘high priest’ we KNOW that was not the one nailed to the cross! So it MUST BE another!
Are these not valid questions seeing that we know for a fact ALL 613 laws were NOT CHANGED?
Now let’s look at what was nailed to his cross:
Col. 2
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
So what could have been a set of ordinances that were against us and contrary to us? Let’s search the scriptures:
Heb. 10
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Well that can’t help us can it. If killing bulls and goats can not help us then that law is against us. It is contrary to us. Let’s read on:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
So God never wanted to kill animals. But it was because of the ‘Law’ of sacrifice that He allowed it. Because if He didn’t ‘ADD’ the provision to kill animals what would have been His only other option, according to His law? Death!! But God did add that option and it started in the beginning:
Gen.3
[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Now if God made coats of skin, that could ONLY mean some animal blood HAD to shed. But why would there have to be the shedding of blood now? Let’s read:
Gen.2
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
GOD SAID, “THOU SHALT NOTâ€Â!!!!
Gen.3
[17] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
AND ADAM DISOBEYED!!!!
Rom.5
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
According to scripture Adam sinned. So that means Adam broke a commandment/Law of God. And with that sin came the curse of Death! The second Death! And since ALL have Sinned, ALL are cursed with the sentence of the second Death.
Now according to God law:
Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
That is why there had to be the shedding of blood.
Adam broke Gods Law. Gods law said there MUST be the shedding of blood to come from under the curse of the law. So blood was shed.
Now if you look at the complete picture you will see how this all comes together!
Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Why was the law added? It was added because man broke the first laws god gave him: Thou shalt not! But this law, of killing bulls and goats, was only to be until the seed would come.
Heb.7
[11] If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[19] For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Now was this law perfect? No it was not. Nor could it MAKE anyone perfect. Because if it could there would not have been a need for another priest to come.
Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
But this law was just to keep us. It was just a shadow of the REAL sacrifice that was to come. Because the ones that were offered year to year just would not cut it. They could not take away the curse of the law.
Heb.10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Not only was this Law of killing animals not working, but God never liked it anyway. So what did He do?
Col.2
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
God removed that law all together. He nailed that Levitical Priesthood law to the cross when Christ died.
Mark 15
[38] And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
No more veil, means no more sacrifices
Dan.9
[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The ONLY thing that ended with the death of our Lord was the Levitical Priesthood and their service.