[_ Old Earth _] Creating

[Arnold Philips]

Evidence doesn't really matter. You can find evidence for anything you want. What matters is disproving, and as it stands, YEC was disproven a long time ago. Evolution has yet to be disproven.

 

[Wertbag]

"how did matter get here if there was no god to put it here in the firt place?" evolutionists answer, "it was converted to matter from energy." my answer, "but that's only a manipulation of something that already existed, HOW did matter get here if there was no god to put it here in the first place?" another answer they gave me, "i don't know"......."what, i can't hear you."........."i don't know" great, perfect answer. they don't know. i do. simple answer. God put it there.

The basic atheist belief would be that matter is eternal. God is not necassary to put it there as it has always existed (just as you believe God is eternal atheists believe matter is eternal). The answer to the big bang is therefore that the matter gets pulled to a centre point until it reaches critical mass then expands back out, this could happen continuously, no start point, no need for God to begin the process.
This was discussed in depth with Featherbop in another thread, but he was unable to understand the possibility of eternal without supernatural, where atheists claim its quite natural.

take a fish. this fish just flops on land, oops, now the fish can't breath on land, so what's it gonna do? oh oww! it's gonna grow lungs and fly away, with it's new found wings...now where in th genetic code does it allow that kind of change at? first of all, that fish would ahve died within an hour, it woouldn't be able to survive on land long enough for any mutation to occur. the same goes for a fish who decides to grow lungs in the water. it will die within about an hour. these evolutionists just say some wacky stuff don't they?

This bizarre story is nothing to do with evolution. Rapid evolution is only claimed by Christians trying to explain the story of Noahs flood. All evolutionist claim intermediate steps between species, so taking the fish idea you would be looking at various creatures that breath air from the water (eg whales, dolphins etc) then slowly evolve into amphibious life such as crocidiles, acelotils, frogs etc. Then those will slowly evolve to another form that doesn't use the water at all (lizards etc). Its all slow steps up the ladder, not great jumps like a fish growing lungs within seconds.

infact, dinosaurs existed the same time man did. they stood side by side all the time. they have fossils to prove it.

Incorrect, there are no fossils showing man living with dinosaurs. There were with extinct species such as mammoths and sabretooth tigers, but not with any giant lizards.
The stories of leviathans, dragons and the like are mostly myths, and in some cases based on the fossils that ancient races found (a T-Rex skull looks alot like any of the dragon drawings from ancient days).

i have one question for you. even if evolution is true, we should see LIVING creatures from the lower chain of evolution, not DEAD creatures.

Not at all, its called extinction. Giant meteor, lack of food, change of climate, preditation and numerous other reasons can cause species to cease to exist. In fact a long history makes this even more likely, if we had dinosaurs only 6000 years ago the chances of seeing them today would be greatly increased, and wouldn't match the lack we see.

the earth is not 4.5 billion years old, it is roughly around 6,000-10,000 years of age. nothing less, nothing more.

The YEC ideas have been shot full of holes numerous times. There are so many dating methods, from carbon dating, argon dating, ice cores, tree rings, sediment layers, corral growth, glacier movements, continental drift etc, and all of them agree on the same ages for the planet. Nothing hints at a 6000 year old earth, and certainly nothing supports a global flood some 4000 years ago.

 

[cd27]

matter has no basic method of thinkind does it? no. so tehn how can it be eternal? it can't put itself here. god can. matter can't. and to think that matter can, is saying that you beleive in a god.

that "bizarre" story, was to explain exactly how stupid your evolution theory is. it can't happen "slowly" so if i was gonna evolve back into an ape, that means i would ahve to have significant changes. impossible. i would die before anything happened. it's been proven that any change in an apes, or even a humans, vital organs, or any other organs, at all, can and most of the time DOES lead to serious injury or death. if my heart changed into something different, then so would my body, and very quickly, or i would die. and then that means EVERYTHING else in my body would have to "adapt" itsef to the new and different type of pressure being put out by the heart. too less pressure, or too much, could result in death, and usually does.

evolution can't happen, it's work is done far too slowly. the ENTIRE BODY would have to change at the same exact time. because the body depends on all of its organs. that wuld mean it would need a COMPLETE RE-WRITEING OF DNA AND RNA in the body. that is impossible. i have yet to see any proof of that anywhere.

and they do have dinosaur and huamn footprints standing next to each other. and to say leviathans do not exist, why don't you go and explain the lock ness ea monster, which has been proven to be a dinosaur, wait! dinosaurs didn't exist with man! :o oh really?

Not at all, its called extinction. Giant meteor, lack of food, change of climate, preditation and numerous other reasons can cause species to cease to exist. In fact a long history makes this even more likely, if we had dinosaurs only 6000 years ago the chances of seeing them today would be greatly increased, and wouldn't match the lack we see.

so extenction whiped out an entire civilization and vaporized all of the remanes, all but ONE of each peice of the chain? highly unlikely. exacly my point, it was 6,000 years ago, and we don't see any do we? so it never even happened. isn't that jsut interesting?

lot of things support the flood. read this link.

http://www.the-flood.net/



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[Barbarian]

I think perhaps if you knew what evolutionary theory says, you'd be less riled about it.

 

[Arnold Philips]

matter has no basic method of thinkind does it? no. so tehn how can it be eternal? it can't put itself here. god can. matter can't. and to think that matter can, is saying that you beleive in a god.

I guess you don't understand. If you can say God is eternal, why can't nontheists say matter is eternal? It's essentially the same thing.

that "bizarre" story, was to explain exactly how stupid your evolution theory is. it can't happen "slowly" so if i was gonna evolve back into an ape, that means i would ahve to have significant changes. impossible. i would die before anything happened. it's been proven that any change in an apes, or even a humans, vital organs, or any other organs, at all, can and most of the time DOES lead to serious injury or death. if my heart changed into something different, then so would my body, and very quickly, or i would die. and then that means EVERYTHING else in my body would have to "adapt" itsef to the new and different type of pressure being put out by the heart. too less pressure, or too much, could result in death, and usually does.

This just shows even more to all that you know little to nothing about evolution. What's even stranger, is that you're not even using the good creationist arguments (and I use "good" relatively of course).

evolution can't happen, it's work is done far too slowly. the ENTIRE BODY would have to change at the same exact time. because the body depends on all of its organs. that wuld mean it would need a COMPLETE RE-WRITEING OF DNA AND RNA in the body. that is impossible.

It doesn't require that, and, like I've said before, you're exhaustively ignorant of this subject. Small changes can be made, and have been observed to be made. Even in your own body, changes happen daily as mutations accumulate during genome transcription. Yet these don't kill you as you suggest.

i have yet to see any proof of that anywhere.

It's because you are setting up strong mindguards. You aren't searching for the truth, but only a way to bolster your own little microcosm with random facts.

and they do have dinosaur and huamn footprints standing next to each other.

Um, most creationists don't use this argument any longer. Even as stubborn as creationists can be, they know how badly flawed these dino footprints are. Shame on you.

and to say leviathans do not exist, why don't you go and explain the lock ness ea monster, which has been proven to be a dinosaur, wait! dinosaurs didn't exist with man! :o oh really?

Since when is the Loch Ness monster an irrefutable fact?

so extenction whiped out an entire civilization and vaporized all of the remanes, all but ONE of each peice of the chain? highly unlikely.

Smaller animals and aquatic animals were able to survive. Why is that hard to believe? We're talking about dinosaurs right?

exacly my point, it was 6,000 years ago, and we don't see any do we? so it never even happened. isn't that jsut interesting?

Huh?

lot of things support the flood. read this link.

http://www.the-flood.net/

It doesn't maatter how many little facts you can accumulate to strengthen your case for a global flood. If it is disproven, then the theory goes out the window. The global flood as described in Genesis could not have happened. It was disproven. It never happened unless there were a series of miracles.

 

[Wertbag]

matter has no basic method of thinkind does it? no. so tehn how can it be eternal? it can't put itself here. god can. matter can't. and to think that matter can, is saying that you beleive in a god.

Matter doesn't need to think to be eternal, it simply needs to exist. Matter didn't put itself anywhere, its been shaped by the forces upon it into its current forms. Believing that natural forces can shape our universe in no way requires a god.

that "bizarre" story, was to explain exactly how stupid your evolution theory is. it can't happen "slowly"

It can happen slowly, small changes don't destory (size changes, colour changes, amount of hair, height, weight etc, all minor, all non-life threatening, and yet some of the basic attributes that show the differences between humans and apes). You seem to simply not understand the basics of the idea. Please read up and understand the claims before making outlandish statements like these.

and they do have dinosaur and huamn footprints standing next to each other.

As Arnold mentioned these have been shown to be either misreported, incorrectly identified or even faked in several cases. There are no footprint claims that stand up to investigation. For the exact same reasons no one claims that the Lock Ness monster is true.

so extenction whiped out an entire civilization and vaporized all of the remanes, all but ONE of each peice of the chain?

If you mean the lack of fossils that are found for land based animals that is because airborne microbes are the things that cause the body to decompose rather than fossilise. To create a fossil you require an airless (or close to it) environment. Hence we find 95% of fossils are sea life, and the majority of the remainer are plant life from swampy areas where the material could sink.
Of course land based creatures can fossilise if buried in a mud slide, tar pit, snow fall or similar fashion, but these are obviously less common ways for the creatures to perish, and therefore we find far fewer fossils of these creatures.

lot of things support the flood. read this link.
http://www.the-flood.net/

That link gives nothing to prove the flood. Site has many errors and lots of bad logic. I don't want to reply to a whole website, maybe pick some points which you would like to understand better and we can explain them for you.
There are literally dozens of reasons why a world wide flood is impossible as described by the Bible. If you like we could give various examples? Alot revolve around the impossibility of the Ark itself, or of the spread of the animals afterwards, or numerous other parts of the story which simply cannot happen. There are simply so many holes that it is not even widely debated anymore.