[_ Old Earth _] Creationist vs evolutionist, whos the fool?

[Asimov]

Similarly, saying God created man and woman doesn't mean he couldn't have used a process to do so.

Actually the word created means to make something out of nothing (root meaning)

created has many meanings, including "bring into being" and "form out of nothing" and "cause to exist". You're saying that because God created man in his image, that they were created out of nothing. In Genesis 2, it states that God formed man of the dust of the ground.

so which is it? created out of nothing? or formed from the "dust of the ground"?

God made adam and eve not bongo the gorilla and aggitha the ape (lol) He put man in charge of the situation. He made man in his image does the image of God evolve?.

By image, do you mean God is a physical entity? Or do you mean spiritual image?

making stupid comments like the one above doesn't help your already childish like arguments.

[quote:0b2ab]Using the Bible to prove the Bible... and you don't see any problems with that evidence?

Your forgetting that the bible is a compound of 66 books Actualy I'm using a book to prove a book. The main book of the Bible that evolution will have problems with is genesis.[/quote:0b2ab]

Who wrote the books? men.
who compiled the books into one book? men.
who claims it is god breathed? men.

[quote:0b2ab]there are many many Christians who can accept evolution as being true. As far as the title of this thread goes---its the creationists who are the fools.

Are you saying christians should serve 2 masters? If you believe that God created all living creatures in a week how can you also trust in millions of years?[/quote:0b2ab]

:evil: :smt067

No!! This is not what is being said. Evolution is not a "master", it says nothing about God, because it is not religious in any way!!

Or evrything that I am saying and am currently saying is false even if it sounds true.

Good, you finally admitted it.

blah blah blah....

So we should Go look for oursleves I sought and found my answears In God what about you are you still seeking?

That doesn't mean don't accept reality.

 

[Featherbop]

An interesting question. Here my observations:

LG creationists can be fools, but not because they beleive in the creation, of course not, but because they can do foolish things with their beleif(as could anyone :wink: ). I've seen more evidence for creation, and from the flow of evidecne, it has been taken and used poorly, and then, I have observed it being used in great ways.

Evolutionary creationists I'd say are the least foolish, especially in manner.

Evolutionary creationists 2, I observe that they are a strange mixture of beleif in all they observe, in addition to, what they cannot observe/have no evidecne for.

Atheistic evolutionists are the worst in manner, method, and arguement. Using evolution as a tool to, how to phrase this: "Make God disappear". Then, theres crude manner, I could easily picture neutrals blowing them off in this worthless category alone! As always, atheistic arguements, coupled with evolution type 2, always make for an entertaining fiasco of debates.

 

[Asimov]

An interesting question. Here my observations:

LG creationists can be fools, but not because they beleive in the creation, of course not, but because they can do foolish things with their beleif(as could anyone :wink: ). I've seen more evidence for creation, and from the flow of evidecne, it has been taken and used poorly, and then, I have observed it being used in great ways.

Evolutionary creationists I'd say are the least foolish, especially in manner.

Evolutionary creationists 2, I observe that they are a strange mixture of beleif in all they observe, in addition to, what they cannot observe/have no evidecne for.

Atheistic evolutionists are the worst in manner, method, and arguement. Using evolution as a tool to, how to phrase this: "Make God disappear". Then, theres crude manner, I could easily picture neutrals blowing them off in this worthless category alone! As always, atheistic arguements, coupled with evolution type 2, always make for an entertaining fiasco of debates.

Not once have I ever seen an Atheistic Evolutionist use evolution to "make God disappear". This doesn't mean it hasn't happened. But in my experience, Atheists have different reasons other than science to argue against God. In most cases, Atheists state that Science and Religion are not incompatible, and it's the interpretation that come into conflict with Science.

 

[Featherbop]

I disagree on a couple of your points, but I'm just going by my obserbvations with what I said.

 

[goliwog man]

created has many meanings, including "bring into being" and "form out of nothing" and "cause to exist". You're saying that because God created man in his image, that they were created out of nothing. In Genesis 2, it states that God formed man of the dust of the ground.

so which is it? created out of nothing? or formed from the "dust of the ground"?

The word create is used in genesis 1v1 In the begining God created the heavens and the earth So the earth was made out of nothing.
And then in genesis 1 v26 God made man And God said let us make man in our own image and In gen 2v7 he formed man.

However I am impressed that you used scripture LOL you surprisied me keep it up :D .

By image, do you mean God is a physical entity? Or do you mean spiritual image?

making stupid comments like the one above doesn't help your already childish like arguments.

Yes i do mean Gods Physical entity.
Hey Im 16 Ok weres the lee way lol My point was God made two humans in his image not two strange deformed golliwogg like apes that later on evovled into his image.

Who wrote the books? men.
who compiled the books into one book? men.
who claims it is god breathed? men.

When God tells you something to write it it isnt mans words but Gods.

That doesn't mean don't accept reality.

Without God what is reality? Or do you say that those fairytails of yours make sense It was fun in kindergarden :D

 

[Asimov]

The word create is used in genesis 1v1 In the begining God created the heavens and the earth So the earth was made out of nothing.
And then in genesis 1 v26 God made man And God said let us make man in our own image and In gen 2v7 he formed man.

Yes...so man was not created out of nothing.

However I am impressed that you used scripture LOL you surprisied me keep it up

Umm...in order to discuss the bible, one needs to use scripture.... :roll:

Yes i do mean Gods Physical entity.
Hey Im 16 Ok weres the lee way lol My point was God made two humans in his image not two strange deformed golliwogg like apes that later on evovled into his image.

So you're saying, that in creating man, God could not have used natural processes. In forming Adam, does the Bible state a specific amount of time used to form Adam?

Without God what is reality? Or do you say that those fairytails of yours make sense It was fun in kindergarden

Fairytales?? How are fairy tales any different from talking snakes, forming a woman from mans rib, or an Almighty God needing to rest?

 

[keebs]

Yes i do mean Gods Physical entity.
Hey Im 16 Ok weres the lee way lol My point was God made two humans in his image not two strange deformed golliwogg like apes that later on evovled into his image.

Who says God doesn't look like an "ape" (the category of apes includes humans, so saying that we evolved from apes is stupid because we are apes), and that we simply evolved away from his image?

And besides, we didn't necessarily evolve from an "ape"...evolution just says that it is possible that we share a common ancestor. Note that i used the word possible. God could have created everything like the bible says, and implemented evolution for the mere fun of it (heck, if I were God, that's what I would've done).

 

[goliwog man]

When jesus came down to earth He was human not an ape. It wasnt an ape that died on the cross it Was jesus In the form of man. God created apes on the sixth day with humans but they are put into a different category. genisis 1v24

And God said let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping thingthing and beasts of the earth after his kind and it was so.

Apes would come under beasts of the earth. And In verse 25 he saw that it was good or perfect. If God made something perfect why would he want its offspring to change?

Then he made man in his own image in verse 26 the bible never refers to man as a beast or beast as a man. The reason we have to follow rules is because we are in the image of christ. Apes havent sinned therfore dont need to.

Beside all of this the bible clearly states that the world and all of its inhabbitant were made in 6 days. Some say that each day represents so many years and in these years so much evolution occured and natural selection. However this is impossible because there was no death before sin.

Yes...so man was not created out of nothing.

Is it my imagination or do we agree on something. LOL God made man and beasts on the same day He created All things.

Gods not an ape as seen in romans 1v23 And changed the glory of God into an image made like to corruptable man, and to birds and four footed beasts and creeping things

 

[Asimov]

When jesus came down to earth He was human not an ape. It wasnt an ape that died on the cross it Was jesus In the form of man. God created apes on the sixth day with humans but they are put into a different category. genisis 1v24

No...we are apes, that doesn't make us less than human. When Jesus came down to Earth, he was God in the flesh. That means, he was a human. Humans are apes.

If God made something perfect why would he want its offspring to change?

if God made something perfect, why did it sin?

Then he made man in his own image in verse 26 the bible never refers to man as a beast or beast as a man. The reason we have to follow rules is because we are in the image of christ. Apes havent sinned therfore dont need to.

God made man in his spiritual image. This means man has a soul. When man was created, it didn't have a soul, it wasn't until God said he breathed a soul into Adam did he actually become a human being.

Beside all of this the bible clearly states that the world and all of its inhabbitant were made in 6 days. Some say that each day represents so many years and in these years so much evolution occured and natural selection. However this is impossible because there was no death before sin.

Where does it say that there was no death before sin?

Is it my imagination or do we agree on something. LOL God made man and beasts on the same day He created All things.

You said a few posts ago that man was created out of nothing!

[/quote]Gods not an ape as seen in romans 1v23 And changed the glory of God into an image made like to corruptable man, and to birds and four footed beasts and creeping things[/quote]

What??

 

[keebs]

When jesus came down to earth He was human not an ape. It wasnt an ape that died on the cross it Was jesus In the form of man. God created apes on the sixth day with humans but they are put into a different category.

I never said anything about Jesus. Man could have evolved enough to be "human" by the time Jesus came down to earth. Or, Jesus could have looked like an "ape". The bible doesn't say what he looked like, what gives you the right to dictate what he looked like. But, once again, humans are apes. Look it up. I don't care whether the bible says apes and humans are different or not (even though the bible makes no mention of apes, so your whole argument is invalid), the bible isn't a dictionary.

 

[goliwog man]

Actually the bible describes jesus as a man. When he came to the earth he took on the form of man (phil 2v6-8) And for the record Apes are mentioned in the bible individually and in a classified group called beasts. Look it up in the bible dictionary :D

The main difference between man and apes is that apes are unable to sin. They dont relise there naked like humans do and they have not been reconciled to christ. God made man in his image from day one he doesnt change and neither does his image. God (the trinity) said let us make man in our Image then they formed him.

the bible isn't a dictionary.

I dont care what you call it I'm still gunna use it.

And If children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ If so we suffer with him that we may also be glorified together. romans 8v17

Gods children Our the heirs To God. No ape is gunna rule in heaven.

And all things are of God Who hath reconciled us unto himself by jesus christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

This is something God has given to mankind not apes

God is almighty not alchangable You dont make a trian and see if it will turn into an aireoplane.
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in the earth visible and invisable whether theybe thrones or dominions or principalities or powers all things were created by him and for him.

Also see the old thread in general discussion are humans animals.

 

[keebs]

Actually the bible describes jesus as a man.

Why couldn't man actually be an "ape"? I see no reason why we couldn't have evolved, yet continued to call ourselved by the same name (although, you must realize that I was being highly sarcastic...there is no way your so-called "apes" had the intelligence to write the bible).

And for the record Apes are mentioned in the bible individually and in a classified group called beasts.

Book, chapter?

The rest of your post was interpreted as "blah". I don't know how many times I have to tell you, but humans are defined as being apes. You need to find a better word.

 

[keebs]

Looking through Genesis, the only animals I found in the text were fish, birds, and "all animals".

 

[goliwog man]

1 kings10v22, 2chr 9v21 It has no impact on creation verses evoultion though there just considered as possessions.

Im also interested why Do you seem afraid of Bible referances? Is it paranoia (no personal attack intended) Do you try to believe the bible is one big myth or are you trying to avoid admitting its true?

 

[keebs]

Your references say nothing about apes being different from humans, nor apes being classified as beasts. All they say is that the ship brought back apes, amoung other things. These "apes" in your reference could easily have been humans as well as the "lower" apes. But, I'm going to try and look up the quotes in the original latin, because I believe that the bible is using apes as an incorrect synonym for the other forms of primates that are not human.

And I am not afraid of bible references, I just don't believe you can use the bible to prove scientific facts, because neither God nor his word are scientific. And I believe that the stories in the bible are myths, although I believe they include facets of truth as well, just as greek mythology does.

 

[goliwog man]

Ok well getting back to the origianla topic on whos the fool

Christians are fools. yet are wise
! corinthians 4v10 We are fools for christs sake, but we are wise in christ, we are weak but we are strong ye are honourable but we are despised.

A real fool despises wisdom
The fear of the the lord is the beggining of knowledge but fools despise wisdom and instruction (prov 1v7)

The natural man Doesnt recieve God (person who looks for facts) he thinks Believing in God is foolishness.
But the natural man recieveth not the things of the spirit of God: For they are foolishness unto him..... 1 cor 2v4a

And finally those who look to be wise outside of God become fools
Rom 1v22 proffesing themsleves to be wise they became fools.

 

[keebs]

Christians are fools.

Couldn't agree more. Choosing mythology over real life observations is pure foolishness.

 

[goliwog man]

Christians are fools. yet are wise

And finally those who look to be wise outside of God become fools

Mis quoteing me will get you no where

Choosing mythology over real life observations is pure foolishness.

Firstly is the bible a myth? Real life observations? I see christ everywere are you blind? The fool hath said in his heart there is no God. They are corrupt and have done Abominable works there is none that doeth Good.
Psalm 14v1

Notice the bit there is none that doeth Good. :D

Also You study myths. If evolution is a thoery it isnt really fact if not a fact it is a myth. The bible is a written account. If it is untrue the author is a liar. But You have no way to prove the bible 100% wrong you can only postulate and attempt to degrade. So whos the fool the fool that fools the fool? The fool that follows the fool? Or fool for good reason in christs sake? Ok those last few sentances foolly confused me LOL :D

 

[Asimov]

If evolution is a thoery it isnt really fact if not a fact it is a myth.

Misusing the definition of a theory will get you no where.

The bible is a written account. If it is untrue the author is a liar.

Or misinformed, or falsely believed. Lying is intentional.

But You have no way to prove the bible 100% wrong you can only postulate and attempt to degrade.

No, you can't prove it 100% wrong, but that's not what we're trying to do.

 

[Guest]

Your references say nothing about apes being different from humans, nor apes being classified as beasts. All they say is that the ship brought back apes, amoung other things. These "apes" in your reference could easily have been humans as well as the "lower" apes. But, I'm going to try and look up the quotes in the original latin, because I believe that the bible is using apes as an incorrect synonym for the other forms of primates that are not human.

And I am not afraid of bible references, I just don't believe you can use the bible to prove scientific facts, because neither God nor his word are scientific. And I believe that the stories in the bible are myths, although I believe they include facets of truth as well, just as greek mythology does.

:wink: The bible calls man,man and animals,animals.
Greek Mythology + Truth? :smt043
You have to say that because of the leaders you follow.
You should learn more about your religion before you preach,preacher
boy!
http://www.resurrectisis.org/PaganEvolution.htm