Creator of the Universe

[Ripheus]

I was browsing the internet when I came upon a discussion (http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010 ... a.php#more) on this page regarding the god of the Jews and Muslims compared to the Christian god. My main question has to do with a smaller point raised during the rather heated conversation: Biblically speaking, is there any evidence that God the Father (as opposed to God the Son) created the universe, or was it God the Son that did so by himself? Or is there a third answer that I'm missing out on? I found a few verses (John 1:3 and Collosians 1:16) quoted in support of the latter viewpoint, but it just seems incorrect for some reason. Thoughts?

 

[Dave...]

I believe that the correct answer would be both. The Father and the Son are One.

http://www.answering-islam.org/

Dave

 

[demented cookies]

Biblically speaking, is there any evidence that God the Father (as opposed to God the Son) created the universe, or was it God the Son that did so by himself? Or is there a third answer that I'm missing out on?

1) If you're a Christian, you could say that the existence of the world is evidence that God created it, though it's shaky "evidence," most likely pulled out of the rear of whoever made it up as a quick excuse when they were questioned about it. Other than that, the Bible could be considered evidence, though if the Bible is evidence of God, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is evidence of Sauron.

2) I thought God the Son (Jesus, I assume) didn't come around until a few thousand years later. At the beginning of the universe, according to the Bible, wasn't it only the one God? I'm confused.

3) Yes, there is a third answer: maybe it wasn't God the Father or God the Son at all. Maybe it was a giant named Mbombo who vomited up the universe one day (Bakuba), or maybe it was a woman who dreamed about it then a spirit who thought it was beautiful and created people (Iroquois). There are hundreds of thousands of possibilities, including the theory that the universe expanded from a dense primeval atom, filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density. That last option is, coincidentally, the only one that is backed up by any scientific evidence while the others were dreamed up by pre-medieval peasants.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, there is a third answer: maybe it wasn't God the Father or God the Son at all. Maybe it was a giant named Mbombo who vomited up the universe one day (Bakuba), or maybe it was a woman who dreamed about it then a spirit who thought it was beautiful and created people (Iroquois). There are hundreds of thousands of possibilities, including the theory that the universe expanded from a dense primeval atom, filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density. That last option is, coincidentally, the only one that is backed up by any scientific evidence while the others were dreamed up by pre-medieval peasants.

i think the big bang has some issues to it.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect ... blems.html

 

[Pard]

I was browsing the internet when I came upon a discussion (http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010 ... a.php#more) on this page regarding the god of the Jews and Muslims compared to the Christian god. My main question has to do with a smaller point raised during the rather heated conversation: Biblically speaking, is there any evidence that God the Father (as opposed to God the Son) created the universe, or was it God the Son that did so by himself? Or is there a third answer that I'm missing out on? I found a few verses (John 1:3 and Collosians 1:16) quoted in support of the latter viewpoint, but it just seems incorrect for some reason. Thoughts?

Now, I didn't read that science article, however what I think you are asking is: Did God the Son make the world or do God the Father make the world, correct? If so:

They actually talked about this in church today, though I was attending a different church so I didn't get the lengthy answer, but at youth group later on I was told about what was said. Basically, God (Trinity) made the world. The Christian God and the Jewish God are the same, trinity and all.

Evidence? I have evidence of what I say, and like much Old Testament confusions, it is in the translation of the text. The very first line of the Bible reads: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Now, the translation confusion is rather simple. The word God is singular in our English translation, but if we go to the Hebrew translation we see it is actually the plural word for God, i.e. Gods.

But you don't need to go on translation confusion alone, I have two more pieces of evidence, though there is much more!

Next evidence is in the very next line! Genesis 1:2 reads: "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. "It says "Spirit of God", we as Christians know this as the Holy Spirit, our gift from God for accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior. So there we have it, God the Father was at least accompanied by one other form, God the Spirit.

Last bit of evidence I'll divulge at this time is in the very next line, again! Genesis 1:3 reads: "Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. " You see, the line that says "God said", that means Jesus. How do we know this? Because Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-3). Whenever we see the Lord speaking int he Old Testament, we as Christians know that it is Christ who is speaking, because He is the Word.

--

The "Big Bang", as I like to call it, has some serious flaws to it. They are way to numerous to list here, but that's a good article, Jason

 

[jasoncran]

if we wish to discuss the "big bang" in depth , i suggest the science forum is best fit for that. and that was a college site that showed the problems with that.

i never realized the universe was relatively flat, if i understand that correctly.

 

[demented cookies]

Of course the big bang theory has flaws, but doesn't every possibility about the beginning of the universe? A few flaws I can name right now about the creation of the universe according to the Bible, are 1) If something can't come from nothing, as many Christians argue, how did God make the universe? 2) Why did God make the universe? and, most importantly, 3) Where did God come from?

It's impossible to find any possibility about the beginning of the universe, myth or theory, without it having some flaws, because no one was around to see it and it's so far back that it's incredibly difficult to learn about. One can learn about the age of the earth itself because the different layers can be dated (and don't anyone dare say "carbon dating isn't accurate" because that argument is old and false, and there are many ways scientists date the earth). However, dating the universe is much harder than dating the earth.

Don't try to pretend your own creation stories are even close to 100% accurate. I doubt any creation story is.

 

[jasoncran]

leave that debate to the science forum , if you wish to join that forum please pm free or rick w and they will add you to they group.
if this continues on this course i will move it to the science forum.

 

[Pard]

Of course the big bang theory has flaws, but doesn't every possibility about the beginning of the universe? A few flaws I can name right now about the creation of the universe according to the Bible, are 1) If something can't come from nothing, as many Christians argue, how did God make the universe? 2) Why did God make the universe? and, most importantly, 3) Where did God come from?

It's impossible to find any possibility about the beginning of the universe, myth or theory, without it having some flaws, because no one was around to see it and it's so far back that it's incredibly difficult to learn about. One can learn about the age of the earth itself because the different layers can be dated (and don't anyone dare say "carbon dating isn't accurate" because that argument is old and false, and there are many ways scientists date the earth). However, dating the universe is much harder than dating the earth.

Don't try to pretend your own creation stories are even close to 100% accurate. I doubt any creation story is.

The mans question is whether God the Father, God the Son, or a different combo. of the Trinity made the world. It has nothing to do with bangs and booms and stuff.

 

[jasoncran]

the word for god in that book you quote is plural as in three in one.

post the verse and in another trinity thread if you wish. i dont want to go into a trinity debate here.

 

[demented cookies]

Of course the big bang theory has flaws, but doesn't every possibility about the beginning of the universe? A few flaws I can name right now about the creation of the universe according to the Bible, are 1) If something can't come from nothing, as many Christians argue, how did God make the universe? 2) Why did God make the universe? and, most importantly, 3) Where did God come from?

It's impossible to find any possibility about the beginning of the universe, myth or theory, without it having some flaws, because no one was around to see it and it's so far back that it's incredibly difficult to learn about. One can learn about the age of the earth itself because the different layers can be dated (and don't anyone dare say "carbon dating isn't accurate" because that argument is old and false, and there are many ways scientists date the earth). However, dating the universe is much harder than dating the earth.

Don't try to pretend your own creation stories are even close to 100% accurate. I doubt any creation story is.

The mans question is whether God the Father, God the Son, or a different combo. of the Trinity made the world. It has nothing to do with bangs and booms and stuff.

This raises the question of "how do you know?" Is your only evidence your holy book? Because, unless you haven't been paying attention for the last few thousand years, the Bible isn't the only holy book. Every religion has its own story about how the universe came to be and each one has exactly the same amount of evidence, except for the ones that are actually backed by scientific proof and experiments and is supported by the part of the scientific community that has the credentials to talk about it (namely, astronomers and other scientists that have to do with space and physics).

What if the universe was actually puked up by Mbombo? Or what if it's carried on the back of a turtle? There are hundreds of thousands of millions of creation myths, so who's to say one of those isn't actually the correct one?

 

[jasoncran]

we believe by faith, even theistic evolutionists do this.

 

[adam332]

I've always felt that no man hath seen the Father, or heard His voice. All we've had was that which our creator, Christ, made for us. That said....

" You see, the line that says "God said", that means Jesus. How do we know this? Because Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-3). Whenever we see the Lord speaking int he Old Testament, we as Christians know that it is Christ who is speaking, because He is the Word.

Never heard it put that way, Pard. I like the sound and logic of it though, very neat point of view for me anyway. I definitely will borrow said logic.

 

[Pard]

This raises the question of "how do you know?" Is your only evidence your holy book? Because, unless you haven't been paying attention for the last few thousand years, the Bible isn't the only holy book. Every religion has its own story about how the universe came to be and each one has exactly the same amount of evidence, except for the ones that are actually backed by scientific proof and experiments and is supported by the part of the scientific community that has the credentials to talk about it (namely, astronomers and other scientists that have to do with space and physics).

"Credentials" is a very relative word (and I cannot stand the word "relative", by the way). To me these men who go on about the Bible not matching science have no credentials. This is for another discussion however, I just wished to point this point out that credentials, like beauty, is int he eye of the beholder.

And yes, faith is a very good answer. I know the Bible is true because God said the Bible is true, and I know God lives and walks among us because I have talked to Him and He lives within me.

Never heard it put that way, Pard. I like the sound and logic of it though, very neat point of view for me anyway. I definitely will borrow said logic.

My pleasure. I am not sure where I heard that bit, but I have somewhere... Frankly, most of the stuff I know, I don't know how I know it! Probably God...