Why am i not surprised?
My pastor is amil and probably close to partial preterist.i know for sure one is.the view of pre mil is very old but not with the pre trib view attached .
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Cultural interaction or not?
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
My pastor is amil and probably close to partial preterist.i know for sure one is.the view of pre mil is very old but not with the pre trib view attached .
I went from premill, to what I called optimistic amill....now I am postmillenial.
They are mostly cousins, but same maintain a strong difference.
Im not a dominionist.
We can't usher in a kingdom by creating godly laws on the earth .I know that you can be post mil and not that way
I just think making laws on certain things simply won't work.
Banning divorce would simply create a godless marriage where two people legally are married but simply let the other adulterate .
I believe we are taught that Jesus inaugurated the Kingdom here before ascending to His throne.
New Birth is essential to see it.
The Kingdom starts small like the mustard seed, but grows.
We are to focus on the accurate proclamation of this gospel of the Kingdom.
We must not be silent in public or political realm.
Change and growth can only happen by regeneration.
The Kingdom grows and spreads worldwide.
New Birth is essential to see it.
The Kingdom starts small like the mustard seed, but grows.
We are to focus on the accurate proclamation of this gospel of the Kingdom.
We must not be silent in public or political realm.
Change and growth can only happen by regeneration.
The Kingdom grows and spreads worldwide.
Never said we should but only that his kingdom is not meat and drink ..
Can't rehab or force sinners to repent and believe .I would be lying if I said I wish it was before the woke culture and before gay marriage but looking back .history shows it wasn't so pretty .
I should dig up how a blue law against movies created my county and also one other .
It was illegal to run a movie theatre and the sheriff having interest in one used that law to stop the one in My county .churches supported that and yet few actually went to church because of said law .
They rebelled or did something else .the year was 1925.in the middle of the prohibition.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
Eph 2:2..."Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"
No, just on Ephesisns 2" view.
Yes, in His church now.
Eventually everywhere.
In one sense, yes.
One doesn't rule where one is not obeyed.
He can be viewed as a king, or a prince, or a consuming fire.
Or as a man.
Not necessary.
110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
1cor15:
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Only your first answer was to a question from me.
I don't know who wrote the other two, but it wasn't me. (Hopeful)
I am just raising questions that I am working on. Are we engaging sinners as much as we can about the gospel? Or avoiding sinners because they are hostile to us?
Fortunately for me, I haven't received much pushback from the sinners, while evangelizing.
The times I have, though, don't scare me off.
Glory to God !
Brightest and best of the sons of the morning; Dawn on our darkness and lend us thine aid. IMO, taking my paradigm from Eph.4:11-16, the brightest and best would be our Christian specialists in ethics, stirring up the lower ‘ranks’ to build up the human body in love (v16). (May Heber and Paul permit my recontextualising of their words.) Whereas top ethicists directly addressing the human forum is good, we of lower rank should, being motivated and educated by them, add our voices at grassroots & other levels.
Tenchi
Member
I am a half-hearted student of End Times prophecy, at best. I look forward, though, with great eagerness to the return of Jesus and the institution of the new heavens and earth "within which righteousness dwells," but the progression of events toward this time in precisely what form is such a mine-field of speculation and argument that I content myself with remaining only superficially-studied (comparatively speaking) and involved in discussions in the realm of eschatology. I explain this in answer to your question concerning the influence of End Times prophecy upon my view of the modern (Protestant) Church in the West. Rather than pinning the current degradation of the Church to the imminent return of Christ, I see the degradation as the harvest of a many-decades-long process that began with good intentions in the evangelistic revivalism of the early 1900's and the Youth Ministry Movement (YMCA, YFC, Young Life, etc.) but which has engendered profound, widespread and chronic spiritual juvenility among modern, western Christians and the "coffin-like" character of their communities.
Tenchi,
Could you expand on the" coffin like" character of the communities. That I suspect is getting at what the OP is about.
What have you seen or observed over time that suggests that image to you, what causes it?
In Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God and saying, the time as fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand. Repe't, and believe in the gospel.
What is the gospel of the Kingdom?
Did the church exist yet?
If someone heard this and believed what would it mean to them?
What is the relationship if any of the Church to the Kingdom?
Was it a physical earthly Kingdom?
Was it only a spiritual Kingdom?
Was it already?
Was it not yet?
Are all people in the Kingdom?
What is the gospel of the Kingdom?
Did the church exist yet?
If someone heard this and believed what would it mean to them?
What is the relationship if any of the Church to the Kingdom?
Was it a physical earthly Kingdom?
Was it only a spiritual Kingdom?
Was it already?
Was it not yet?
Are all people in the Kingdom?
Some quotes;
Kuyper wanted to awaken the church from what he viewed as its pietistic slumber. He declared:
No single piece of our mental world is to be sealed off from the rest and there is not a square inch in the whole domain of human existence over which Christ, who is sovereign over all, does not cry: 'Mine
The Puritans did not retreat from culture but attempted to apply to the law of God to every area of life. We have largely abandoned these ideas. Boot points out various reasons for the church’s cultural retreat such as eschatological dualism, two-kingdom theology, antinomianism and false views of justice.
Joe Boot offers this;
Christ Jesus reigns over all, for, having been raised from the dead, ascending to sit down at the right hand of majesty and power, all authority and judgment is in his hands, and his royal court is now in session (Eph. 1:20–23; Heb. 1:3–4; Matt. 28:18; Phil. 3:21).
Those born again by the Spirit of God are now sons and joint-heirs with Christ, and are appointed ambassadors of his cosmic dominion.
As 'new creatures' through whom the power of the new creation is already at work, God's people are sent out into all the earth to declare the good news of Christ's reign and salvation and assert his crown rights in every area of life and thought (Ps. 2; Acts 2:29–36; 1 Cor. 8:5–6; Eph. 6:19–20; Phil 2:9–11).Yet where in Scripture are we ever called to 'serve both God and Caesar'? We are only ever called to serve Christ the Lord in every area of life, including the political life of the state. We cannot have two masters. In engaging political life, we must never serve Caesar (i.e. the state) as though there is a common kingdom independent of the immediate reign of the Son of Man, now seated at the right hand of God in the place of total authority, everything being made subject to him (Heb. 1:1-2:10; Eph. 1:20-23; Col. 1:15-20). But we can serve Christ, by serving his purposes in the state, as in any other area of life. It is because we can and must serve Christ the Lord in every area of life that we have the authority to prophetically call political power to do justice and bend the knee to God in all its functions.
The problem for man is not the creational structures he is called to serve in (like the family and state) but the direction of that service – the direction of our hearts. Will we, in our life and work, be turned toward idolatry or true worship, because from the heart spring the issues of life (Prov. 4:23)? Thus when Stevens basically juxtaposes political, cultural and social transformation with seeking the eschatological coming kingdom of Christ; when personal evangelism rather than the broader mission of evangelization (Matt. 28:16-20 includes teaching and disciplining nations not just individuals) is said to be the priority; when prayer for revival has no apparent connection with the transformation of the political life of the nation, it is these Two Kingdoms theological and philosophical ideas that seem to underlie his reasoning.
Resignation from the public space: Responding to John Stevens' liberal pluralist vision | Dr. Joe Boot
Kuyper wanted to awaken the church from what he viewed as its pietistic slumber. He declared:
No single piece of our mental world is to be sealed off from the rest and there is not a square inch in the whole domain of human existence over which Christ, who is sovereign over all, does not cry: 'Mine
The Puritans did not retreat from culture but attempted to apply to the law of God to every area of life. We have largely abandoned these ideas. Boot points out various reasons for the church’s cultural retreat such as eschatological dualism, two-kingdom theology, antinomianism and false views of justice.
Joe Boot offers this;
Christ Jesus reigns over all, for, having been raised from the dead, ascending to sit down at the right hand of majesty and power, all authority and judgment is in his hands, and his royal court is now in session (Eph. 1:20–23; Heb. 1:3–4; Matt. 28:18; Phil. 3:21).
Those born again by the Spirit of God are now sons and joint-heirs with Christ, and are appointed ambassadors of his cosmic dominion.
As 'new creatures' through whom the power of the new creation is already at work, God's people are sent out into all the earth to declare the good news of Christ's reign and salvation and assert his crown rights in every area of life and thought (Ps. 2; Acts 2:29–36; 1 Cor. 8:5–6; Eph. 6:19–20; Phil 2:9–11).Yet where in Scripture are we ever called to 'serve both God and Caesar'? We are only ever called to serve Christ the Lord in every area of life, including the political life of the state. We cannot have two masters. In engaging political life, we must never serve Caesar (i.e. the state) as though there is a common kingdom independent of the immediate reign of the Son of Man, now seated at the right hand of God in the place of total authority, everything being made subject to him (Heb. 1:1-2:10; Eph. 1:20-23; Col. 1:15-20). But we can serve Christ, by serving his purposes in the state, as in any other area of life. It is because we can and must serve Christ the Lord in every area of life that we have the authority to prophetically call political power to do justice and bend the knee to God in all its functions.
The problem for man is not the creational structures he is called to serve in (like the family and state) but the direction of that service – the direction of our hearts. Will we, in our life and work, be turned toward idolatry or true worship, because from the heart spring the issues of life (Prov. 4:23)? Thus when Stevens basically juxtaposes political, cultural and social transformation with seeking the eschatological coming kingdom of Christ; when personal evangelism rather than the broader mission of evangelization (Matt. 28:16-20 includes teaching and disciplining nations not just individuals) is said to be the priority; when prayer for revival has no apparent connection with the transformation of the political life of the nation, it is these Two Kingdoms theological and philosophical ideas that seem to underlie his reasoning.
Resignation from the public space: Responding to John Stevens' liberal pluralist vision | Dr. Joe Boot
Throughout history, the Lord has entrusted the work of gospel-centered culture building and renewal to His people.
Gen1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen.9:9 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Mt28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
This task is particularly urgent in our day because the organs and institutions of modern culture have been thoroughly saturated by humanistic and pagan assumptions about the source of nature of truth and freedom.
These pretensions have steadily redefined intellectual, social, familial, sexual, and ethical norms, unleashing real evil and enslaving Western society in radical opposition to Christ and the freedom brought by the gospel.
From the school, the academy, and courthouse, to senates, parliaments, and palaces, the Christian faith is being systematically expunged from public life and ignored or assaulted in our corridors of learning and power.
If we love the gospel, our neighbors, and freedom, Christians must take up the cultural task with faith and courage.
pg 15,16 preface of Gospel Culture
Gen1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen.9:9 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Mt28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
This task is particularly urgent in our day because the organs and institutions of modern culture have been thoroughly saturated by humanistic and pagan assumptions about the source of nature of truth and freedom.
These pretensions have steadily redefined intellectual, social, familial, sexual, and ethical norms, unleashing real evil and enslaving Western society in radical opposition to Christ and the freedom brought by the gospel.
From the school, the academy, and courthouse, to senates, parliaments, and palaces, the Christian faith is being systematically expunged from public life and ignored or assaulted in our corridors of learning and power.
If we love the gospel, our neighbors, and freedom, Christians must take up the cultural task with faith and courage.
pg 15,16 preface of Gospel Culture
Others have commented a little bit here and there.
The Reformed Doctrine Of Scripture | Monergism
Cornelius Van Til
In saving us from sin, Christ saves us unto his service. Through the salvation that is ours in Christ by the Spirit, we take up anew the cultural mandate that was given man at the outset of history.
Whether we eat or drink or whatever we do, we want now to do all to the glory of God. Moreover, we want our fellow men with us to do all things to the glory of God. We are bound, as we are eager, to inform them of that which we have been told, namely, that we shall continue to abide under the wrath of God and eventually be cast out into utter darkness unless, by God’s grace, we seek to do all things to the glory of God. Calling upon all men everywhere to join with us in fulfilling the original cultural mandate given to mankind—which we may now undertake because of the redeeming work of Christ—is our joy each day.
The cultural mandate is to be fulfilled in our handling of the facts or events of our environment. Men must subdue, to the service of Christ, the earth and all that is therein. As the Christian constantly does so, he is constantly conscious of the fact that he is working on God’s estate. He is not himself the owner of anything, least of all of himself. He is the bondservant of God through Christ. Therein lies his freedom.
The Reformed Doctrine Of Scripture | Monergism
Cornelius Van Til
In saving us from sin, Christ saves us unto his service. Through the salvation that is ours in Christ by the Spirit, we take up anew the cultural mandate that was given man at the outset of history.
Whether we eat or drink or whatever we do, we want now to do all to the glory of God. Moreover, we want our fellow men with us to do all things to the glory of God. We are bound, as we are eager, to inform them of that which we have been told, namely, that we shall continue to abide under the wrath of God and eventually be cast out into utter darkness unless, by God’s grace, we seek to do all things to the glory of God. Calling upon all men everywhere to join with us in fulfilling the original cultural mandate given to mankind—which we may now undertake because of the redeeming work of Christ—is our joy each day.
The cultural mandate is to be fulfilled in our handling of the facts or events of our environment. Men must subdue, to the service of Christ, the earth and all that is therein. As the Christian constantly does so, he is constantly conscious of the fact that he is working on God’s estate. He is not himself the owner of anything, least of all of himself. He is the bondservant of God through Christ. Therein lies his freedom.