Culture Wars

[humble soul]

We are in a culture war.
Simply put it's Christians versus;
atheist, gay activists, feminists, pro choice ...and so on.
I'm going to focus mainly on the Christian versus gay lobby here. I've been labelled "homophobe" many times on twitter. Oh and "bigot" as well. I don't like what is happening in schools. It's very insidious. Under the guise of anti bullying, activists are promoting homosexuality as a viable alternative. Kids are getting brainwashed I think.
Anyway, what I mainly want to say is, we can opt out of this culture war. Some may say that's like " putting your head in the sand". Maybe. But I find personally, I can get caught up in emotions and lose sight of the big picture. I find it more healthy to stay away from the dramas. To stay away from Twitter. I don't have kids so can avoid the school arena. That must be tough for you young parents. I think I might be very angry if my child was being seduced into gayness as if it was a better option than heterosexual, straight sexuality.
So yeah I can avoid the culture war, if I don't get caught up in the news. Like the Marg. Court issue.
Can we avoid culture wars altogether?

 

[stovebolts]

I don’t think we can avoid the culture wars, but we can choose how we interact within it.

As Christians, we call sin sin. But we also forgive and extend grace. Grace is not a free pass to sin. Instead, Grace says, That is sin, but I’m not here to condemn you over it. Instead, I’m here to help you through it.

When it comes to our teens, we need to understand that they are at the age where they are both exploring their sexuality due to natural hormonal changes and they are seeking independence from their parents which often expresses itself through rebellious behavior.

Our culture says homosexuality is ok and within our middle schools and high schools, being bi-sexual is the cool thing to be. This is the culture war with our children we are currently in.

If we only focus on condemn homosexuality, it opens the door for rebellion. Instead of pounding on homosexuality being a sin,it is my thought that we spend more of our time teaching our children at a young age the beauty of a man and woman uniting and the glory of raising children. We teach them what Gods original design for marriage is and what it means to be one with their future spouse. We also prepare them for puberty. We let them know the changes that are coming, and the responsibility it carries. We warn them of the pitfalls and we teach them the beauty of Gods design.

We call sin sin, but we also show a path that leads to Godly living where our joy can never be stolen. Calling out sin is easy. But teaching what is right can take patience and understanding your child’s place within the culture wars.

.02

 

[for_his_glory]

I have two nieces that are gay and one even married her partner, which is not recognized in the eyes of God, but only being a transgression of a sinful nature. I have talked to both of them about this and shared the scriptures as both were brought up in the church at young ages, but these type of things are not taught from the pulpit other than being a fire and brimstone message. They both know where I stand on this and I love them both dearly, but yet they will make their own choices even though we try as we may to show them how this comes against the nature of God's design for a man and a women being united as one in marriage.

IMO the Church is to accepting of these type of culture wars as they do not want to step on anyone's toes in order to teach the truth of these matters. All things can be taught in love, but yet you have those who want to call fire down from heaven condemn these type of people.

 

[Milk-Drops]

If I may ask that I be given some leeway and understanding, I have an outsiders opinion, and also as a person that I identifies with the label known as gay.

One of my frustrations with this type of topic is the communication barrier. As someone who has grown up in the rural Midwest where Christianity is very active and many times integral to communities I'm very familiar on the views of American Protestant views on homosexuality and sexuality in general.

I understand that sex has specific meanings within many Protestant Christian denominations and is a sacred act between married individuals to bring forth commencement and new life. I understand that Christianity looks at sex outside of marriage as feeding worldly desires and contributing to degeneracy and sin.

Now with that out of the way, where I think the dialogue breaks down is that many LGBTQ activists see sexuality as a passive trait is its influence on attraction and desires. Where Christianity tends to view everyone as being Heterosexual and choosing to embrace another sexuality out of temptation.

humble soul mentioned that they have been called homophobic on twitter, and after reading their post the reason is probably because of the line

my child was being seduced into gayness as if it was a better option than heterosexual, straight sexuality

and

Under the guise of anti bullying, activists are promoting homosexuality as a viable alternative.

To a lot of LGBTQ people this comes off at best as ignorance, and at the worst hostile to them.

As an anecdote when I hit puberty I found myself attracted to men and not so much attracted to women. I didn't choose this and since I was raised Christian ( non denominational but in high school I gravitated to Evangelical branches), I actively tried to refocus my attention onto women. However it never worked out that way. I have had several people try to help in a well meaning, but misguided way, but the biggest hurdle I always came to was trying to get people to understand that I wasn't making any kind of active choice or rebellion. It was and is literally a passive aspect of my person and a small part of it as well.

That is why in the past here I had expressed more emotional and even rude takes on LGBTQ politics here when the board allowed for their discussion. I always felt there was and is an active language barrier, and and infantilization of LGBTQ people where the issues are not being discussed at their root, but more about misunderstandings.

A good analogy is that I feel most Christian are well meaning but its like trying to change a tire with a power drill and a hatchet. I understand you mean well, but those are not the right tools for the task. :P

 

[WIP]

If I may ask that I be given some leeway and understanding, I have an outsiders opinion, and also as a person that I identifies with the label known as gay.

One of my frustrations with this type of topic is the communication barrier. As someone who has grown up in the rural Midwest where Christianity is very active and many times integral to communities I'm very familiar on the views of American Protestant views on homosexuality and sexuality in general.

I understand that sex has specific meanings within many Protestant Christian denominations and is a sacred act between married individuals to bring forth commencement and new life. I understand that Christianity looks at sex outside of marriage as feeding worldly desires and contributing to degeneracy and sin.

Now with that out of the way, where I think the dialogue breaks down is that many LGBTQ activists see sexuality as a passive trait is its influence on attraction and desires. Where Christianity tends to view everyone as being Heterosexual and choosing to embrace another sexuality out of temptation.

humble soul mentioned that they have been called homophobic on twitter, and after reading their post the reason is probably because of the line

and


To a lot of LGBTQ people this comes off at best as ignorance, and at the worst hostile to them.

As an anecdote when I hit puberty I found myself attracted to men and not so much attracted to women. I didn't choose this and since I was raised Christian ( non denominational but in high school I gravitated to Evangelical branches), I actively tried to refocus my attention onto women. However it never worked out that way. I have had several people try to help in a well meaning, but misguided way, but the biggest hurdle I always came to was trying to get people to understand that I wasn't making any kind of active choice or rebellion. It was and is literally a passive aspect of my person and a small part of it as well.

That is why in the past here I had expressed more emotional and even rude takes on LGBTQ politics here when the board allowed for their discussion. I always felt there was and is an active language barrier, and and infantilization of LGBTQ people where the issues are not being discussed at their root, but more about misunderstandings.

A good analogy is that I feel most Christian are well meaning but its like trying to change a tire with a power drill and a hatchet. I understand you mean well, but those are not the right tools for the task. :tongue

Thank you for sharing. I'd like to offer another point of view. One of the language barriers that I have encountered happened within the church. Back in 1988 three Lutheran church bodies, the American Lutheran Church (ALC) and the Lutheran Church in America (LCA) and the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (AELC), united to form what is today called the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA).

My church was one member of the ALC and although our congregation was opposed to the merger for various reasons which came to fruition later, it went along with the merger and became a member of the ELCA. This all happened before my time.

As time went on it became very openly apparent that there was a movement toward acceptance and approval the ordination of practicing gay and lesbian leaders, pastors, bishops, and congregation in the church and along with that of course openly LGBTQ laypeople and membership.

Here's where I witnessed the language barrier. As chairperson of our church's congregation I attended a few of the annual northwestern synodical meetings in Minnesota. During those meetings the question of permitting openly practicing gay and lesbian leaders, pastors, and bishops was one of the most hotly debated topics. During those conversations/debates the one thing that stood out was the response received from LGBTQ supporters. It was anything but civil.

Whenever the opposition brought up the idea of the sinfulness of homosexual, promiscuous, and/or other sexual activity outside of marriage they were immediately accused of hatred and not wanting them to be part of the church. This was not true. We did not hate them nor did we want to excommunicate them from the church. We were only sharing the truth of God's Word found in Scripture but they would have nothing of it. They erected a huge wall of dissention and closed their ears to the truth.

 

[Milk-Drops]

In that situation, I think the heart of the misunderstanding comes from the concept of "openly practicing". I would ask, what does that really mean? Is it the act of sex, recognizing they have such feelings, being in a relationship?

One thing I ask to people to do is to flip the script. Would you say someone is an open or practicing heterosexual?

The hatred or homophobia aspect comes from the focus on a small aspect of a person.

If someone like the color orange and there is focus on a person being an open and practicing orange liker. It starts to feel dehumanizing after a point. Its taking a small aspect and putting it on a pedestal. Im not saying you had any hate in or heart.


The idea is more about trying to understand where to people we talk about are

 

[for_his_glory]

If I may ask that I be given some leeway and understanding, I have an outsiders opinion, and also as a person that I identifies with the label known as gay.

One of my frustrations with this type of topic is the communication barrier. As someone who has grown up in the rural Midwest where Christianity is very active and many times integral to communities I'm very familiar on the views of American Protestant views on homosexuality and sexuality in general.

I understand that sex has specific meanings within many Protestant Christian denominations and is a sacred act between married individuals to bring forth commencement and new life. I understand that Christianity looks at sex outside of marriage as feeding worldly desires and contributing to degeneracy and sin.

Now with that out of the way, where I think the dialogue breaks down is that many LGBTQ activists see sexuality as a passive trait is its influence on attraction and desires. Where Christianity tends to view everyone as being Heterosexual and choosing to embrace another sexuality out of temptation.

humble soul mentioned that they have been called homophobic on twitter, and after reading their post the reason is probably because of the line

and


To a lot of LGBTQ people this comes off at best as ignorance, and at the worst hostile to them.

As an anecdote when I hit puberty I found myself attracted to men and not so much attracted to women. I didn't choose this and since I was raised Christian ( non denominational but in high school I gravitated to Evangelical branches), I actively tried to refocus my attention onto women. However it never worked out that way. I have had several people try to help in a well meaning, but misguided way, but the biggest hurdle I always came to was trying to get people to understand that I wasn't making any kind of active choice or rebellion. It was and is literally a passive aspect of my person and a small part of it as well.

That is why in the past here I had expressed more emotional and even rude takes on LGBTQ politics here when the board allowed for their discussion. I always felt there was and is an active language barrier, and and infantilization of LGBTQ people where the issues are not being discussed at their root, but more about misunderstandings.

A good analogy is that I feel most Christian are well meaning but its like trying to change a tire with a power drill and a hatchet. I understand you mean well, but those are not the right tools for the task. :tongue

IMO there lays the problem with the word "activists". The word activist means a person who campaigns to bring about political or social change.

What should be brought about instead of protesting on the streets that usually leads to violence from radical groups clashing with each other is Biblical understanding of what God has already said about this lifestyle being an abomination against His nature for a man and a woman (Leviticus 18:22; 20:10-21; Romans 1:18-32) and what God brought down on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19.

We should never be accepting of anything that comes against God. God gives us grace in repentance and we need to give grace to others in lovingly explaining why the unnatural acts of man and woman are wrong as being sexual worldly desires.

Not everyone will accept Godly counsel because not everyone believes there is a God of all creation, or those who claim they are a Christian, but still live this lifestyle, have no understanding how this life style transgresses the natural law of God design for a man and a woman being united as one.

All we can do is give them the word of God and pray that seeds of His word will grow within them. I have a cousin that lived a gay lifestyle with his male partner, but once he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior saw that his choice of lifestyle was wrong he walked away from it, but many do not, even if they claim they know God. People make their own choices and there is nothing we can do. Only God can judge the heart as judgment belongs to Him alone.

 

[Milk-Drops]

IMO there lays the problem with the word "activists". The word activist means a person who campaigns to bring about political or social change.

I think that might be a general way to understand active campaigning individuals, but its too vague a concept to really understand what is going on in the social and political land.scape. is a person trying to get their child to eat a vegetable an activist? The person is trying to change a perception on the child's level?

[Quite]What should be brought about instead of protesting on the streets that usually leads to violence from radical groups clashing with each other is Biblical understanding of what God has already said about this lifestyle being an abomination against His nature for a man and a woman (Leviticus 18:22; 20:10-21; Romans 1:18-32) and what God brought down on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19.[/quote] I want to point out that this is exactly what I'm referring to. You have used the word live style, brought up violent protests for some reason, and just listing off Bible scripture.
[/QUOTE]
You are not engaging me at this point, but a concept. This message me shut down because you are not addressing me, but instead a point, regardless if it applies to me or not.

We should never be accepting of anything that comes against God. God gives us grace in repentance and we need to give grace to others in lovingly explaining why the unnatural acts of man and woman are wrong as being sexual worldly desires.

Not everyone will accept Godly counsel because not everyone believes there is a God of all creation, or those who claim they are a Christian, but still live this lifestyle, have no understanding how this life style transgresses the natural law of God design for a man and a woman being united as one.

All we can do is give them the word of God and pray that seeds of His word will grow within them. I have a cousin that lived a gay lifestyle with his male partner, but once he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior saw that his choice of lifestyle was wrong he walked away from it, but many do not, even if they claim they know God. People make their own choices and there is nothing we can do. Only God can judge the heart as judgment belongs to Him alone.

In this thread I have not asked anyone to accept anything. I asked for understanding and discussion. That is a chasm of a difference. I understand stand objectivism as a political concept, but have not accepted it.

You mentioned sharing the Gospel truth with people. I fully support your right to do that. What I'm asking and trying to discuss here is understanding the audience.

For example, if I wanted to sell a vehiclr to someone and I think I know enough about cars to be confident, I could botch the sale if I am more interested in trying to sell the person a sportscaster when they really want a pick up. The goal is to convice someone Bout the love and salvation through Jesus, but if We don't understand the person's wants and needs, they will probably become upset and go elsewhere.

 

[Hopeful]

I don’t think we can avoid the culture wars, but we can choose how we interact within it.

As Christians, we call sin sin. But we also forgive and extend grace. Grace is not a free pass to sin. Instead, Grace says, That is sin, but I’m not here to condemn you over it. Instead, I’m here to help you through it.

When it comes to our teens, we need to understand that they are at the age where they are both exploring their sexuality due to natural hormonal changes and they are seeking independence from their parents which often expresses itself through rebellious behavior.

Our culture says homosexuality is ok and within our middle schools and high schools, being bi-sexual is the cool thing to be. This is the culture war with our children we are currently in.

If we only focus on condemn homosexuality, it opens the door for rebellion. Instead of pounding on homosexuality being a sin,it is my thought that we spend more of our time teaching our children at a young age the beauty of a man and woman uniting and the glory of raising children. We teach them what Gods original design for marriage is and what it means to be one with their future spouse. We also prepare them for puberty. We let them know the changes that are coming, and the responsibility it carries. We warn them of the pitfalls and we teach them the beauty of Gods design.

We call sin sin, but we also show a path that leads to Godly living where our joy can never be stolen. Calling out sin is easy. But teaching what is right can take patience and understanding your child’s place within the culture wars.

.02

Do you think it a tad hypocritical to be against the sins of others but doing the same, or other, things ourselves?
Men who commit sin have no right to rebuke others.
Thankfully, and not just so we can rebuke, we have been afforded the ability to live without sin ourselves, and speak with wisdom and a clean conscience to those who may be seeking the Lord.
To those not seeking God...anything we say will be ignored and/or fought against.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think that might be a general way to understand active campaigning individuals, but its too vague a concept to really understand what is going on in the social and political land.scape. is a person trying to get their child to eat a vegetable an activist? The person is trying to change a perception on the child's level?

[Quite]What should be brought about instead of protesting on the streets that usually leads to violence from radical groups clashing with each other is Biblical understanding of what God has already said about this lifestyle being an abomination against His nature for a man and a woman (Leviticus 18:22; 20:10-21; Romans 1:18-32) and what God brought down on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19.

I want to point out that this is exactly what I'm referring to. You have used the word live style, brought up violent protests for some reason, and just listing off Bible scripture.
[/QUOTE]
You are not engaging me at this point, but a concept. This message me shut down because you are not addressing me, but instead a point, regardless if it applies to me or not.


In this thread I have not asked anyone to accept anything. I asked for understanding and discussion. That is a chasm of a difference. I understand stand objectivism as a political concept, but have not accepted it.

You mentioned sharing the Gospel truth with people. I fully support your right to do that. What I'm asking and trying to discuss here is understanding the audience.

For example, if I wanted to sell a vehiclr to someone and I think I know enough about cars to be confident, I could botch the sale if I am more interested in trying to sell the person a sportscaster when they really want a pick up. The goal is to convice someone Bout the love and salvation through Jesus, but if We don't understand the person's wants and needs, they will probably become upset and go elsewhere.
[/QUOTE]
Was there not a point in what you said?

A parent can be a type of a health activist in the child's life in order for them to get the nutrients that need in their body. It all boils down to cause and effect in what one is activating in.

I will always give scripture to support that of what God has already said. Why would you have a problem with that as that is how I make my point to others.

Was there not a point in what you are trying to bring across to us? You have given an outsiders opinion and I am replying with sound Biblical principles of how as a Christian we should be handling these types of issues.

Not sure what you are looking for as this is my reply to the issue with the communication barrier you were talking about. These are not American Protestant views I give, but the very word of God. God speaks and we who are His own will follow and obey His commands.

We can not force or convince anyone to accept anything, but to only give them knowledge in hopes they make the right decisions in their life. What else would you expect from a Christian forum if not the word of God that fulfills every situation we might find our self in.

Maybe I am missing your point and if I am can you explain it for me?

 

[Milk-Drops]

Was there not a point in what you said?

A parent can be a type of a health activist in the child's life in order for them to get the nutrients that need in their body. It all boils down to cause and effect in what one is activating in?

[/QUOTE]
Ok, this is where I think we are losing each other. You brought up how we see the word activist. I was pointing out that activist can be used specifically or vaguely. That is beside my main point that I am of the opinion that sometimes people talk past each other in terms of projection instead of listening and adapting their approach to the situation. More along the means of getting to an end point instead of coming to an understanding.

I will always give scripture to support that of what God has already said. Why would you have a problem with that as that is how I make my point to others.

Was there not a point in what you are trying to bring across to us? You have given an outsiders opinion and I am replying with sound Biblical principles of how as a Christian we should be handling these types of issues.

[/QUOTE]
The point I am making is not of a scriptural nature. I'm not saying the Bible says X or Y. I am pointing out the importance of listening to each other and to not talk past each other. Humble mentioned that they were called a homophobe on twitter. I was pointing out how and why that happens and where the language barrier is.

I'm pointing out the importance of understanding or seeking to understand the people you want to engage with. We are not talking about validity at this point, but about recognizing the humanity on both sides.

Not sure what you are looking for as this is my reply to the issue with the communication barrier you were talking about. These are not American Protestant views I give, but the very word of God. God speaks and we who are His own will follow and obey His commands.

[/QUOTE]
The Word of God is not being challenged. Its the approach of the person using the Word of God. For example a person can be righteous in the lord, but if they can't deliver the message then they won't win souls. A person can be correct, but if they can't apply what they know and understand, then its as if the person knows nothing at all by perception.

We can not force or convince anyone to accept anything, but to only give them knowledge in hopes they make the right decisions in their life. What else would you expect from a Christian forum if not the word of God that fulfills every situation we might find our self in.

Maybe I am missing your point and if I am can you explain it for me?

I think that you are misunderstanding what my approach is. Its not a challenge of the The Word, its a challenge of tactic. A person of God can still be fallible in their means to convey the word of God.

If a person is in need of a bucket and reaches out their right hand, but you instead try to place it in their left hand, the problem is that it becomes more about what you want to do than the person's needs.

 

[humble soul]

To milk drops. I've copied the following:

humble soul mentioned that they have been called homophobic on twitter, and after reading their post the reason is probably because of the line
humble soul said:
my child was being seduced into gayness as if it was a better option than heterosexual, straight sexuality
and
humble soul said:
Under the guise of anti bullying, activists are promoting homosexuality as a viable alternative."

I think anti gay bullying classes are similar in Australia and America. Could you explain the purpose of those programs?
From a non gay Christian point of view, those classes have been reported on several occasions as being gay campaigning in disguise. The promotion of homosexuality as a lifestyle. Can you refute those assertions? I am honestly open to changing my mind on this?

 

[humble soul]

Hey but Im impressed by mildrops communication skills and contribution to this thread. Thanks for posting.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

We are in a culture war.
Simply put it's Christians versus;
atheist, gay activists, feminists, pro choice ...and so on.
I'm going to focus mainly on the Christian versus gay lobby here. I've been labelled "homophobe" many times on twitter. Oh and "bigot" as well. I don't like what is happening in schools. It's very insidious. Under the guise of anti bullying, activists are promoting homosexuality as a viable alternative. Kids are getting brainwashed I think.
Anyway, what I mainly want to say is, we can opt out of this culture war. Some may say that's like " putting your head in the sand". Maybe. But I find personally, I can get caught up in emotions and lose sight of the big picture. I find it more healthy to stay away from the dramas. To stay away from Twitter. I don't have kids so can avoid the school arena. That must be tough for you young parents. I think I might be very angry if my child was being seduced into gayness as if it was a better option than heterosexual, straight sexuality.
So yeah I can avoid the culture war, if I don't get caught up in the news. Like the Marg. Court issue.
Can we avoid culture wars altogether?

Woke up, fell out of bed
Dragged a comb across my head
Found my way downstairs and drank a cup
And looking up, I noticed I was late
Found my coat and grabbed my hat
Made the bus in seconds flat
Found my way upstairs and had a smoke
And somebody spoke and I went into a dream

The Beatles
A Day in the Life

 

[humble soul]

Woke up, fell out of bed
Dragged a comb across my head
Found my way downstairs and drank a cup
And looking up, I noticed I was late
Found my coat and grabbed my hat
Made the bus in seconds flat
Found my way upstairs and had a smoke
And somebody spoke and I went into a dream

I read the news today
Oh boy.
About a lucky man who .......

 

[humble soul]

You never give me your virus.
You only give me your funny vaccine
And in the middle of contamination.
I break down

 

[Milk-Drops]

To milk drops. I've copied the following:

humble soul mentioned that they have been called homophobic on twitter, and after reading their post the reason is probably because of the line
humble soul said:
my child was being seduced into gayness as if it was a better option than heterosexual, straight sexuality
and
humble soul said:
Under the guise of anti bullying, activists are promoting homosexuality as a viable alternative."

I think anti gay bullying classes are similar in Australia and America. Could you explain the purpose of those programs?
From a non gay Christian point of view, those classes have been reported on several occasions as being gay campaigning in disguise. The promotion of homosexuality as a lifestyle. Can you refute those assertions? I am honestly open to changing my mind on this?

I'm not familiar with how Australia handles the classes. Here in the US, most policies just have a zero tolerance when it comes to general bullying. However it depends on the district what a district considers bullying.

 

[humble soul]

I'm not familiar with how Australia handles the classes. Here in the US, most policies just have a zero tolerance when it comes to general bullying. However it depends on the district what a district considers bullying.

But do you know anything about the programs? In detail? Where homosexuality is discussed with the students. A special class taught by an outsider.
We got horrific reports via media and tv.
Letting kids even under 10 years of age, question their own sexuality? "Am I gay? "
Do you think such a classroom topic is appropriate with children?

 

[humble soul]

Ok this video will give you some idea of parental concerns. This guy is a bit over the top but there are many who feel the same. I'm wondering what is actually going on in these classes. Maybe some good things are occurring. I'm happy to change my mind on this. I just want to know the facts. And America must surely have similar programs.

 

[Corn Pop]

What is this world trying to achieve?.