Damnation Question

[DivineNames]

Also, my statement isn't Social Trinitarianism, either. I don't believe that Jesus is God, but is part of the Godhead.

When I say, "we" I am referring to all those who believe in the Godhead. I should have qualified that.

Social Trinitarians believe in three persons as God (without considering the God issue) and they believe that one person, the Son, became incarnate. Which part of this do you disagree with?

 

[DivineNames]

Social Trinitarianism, as defined here: http://branemrys.blogspot.com/2005/02/faith-and-philosophy-and-trinity.html:

(1) There are three really distinct Persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit);
(2) Each of the Persons is God;
(3) There is only one God;

That actually wasn't a definition of Social Trinitarianism. It was summarizing the orthodox position, in order to say how Social Trinitarianism would understand it.

So, based on point (3), your statement, "It probably isn't monotheistic." is incorrect. Monotheistic, as defined by Webster's, is the belief in one God.

It is obviously the case that Social Trinitarians would claim to believe in one God.

When I say, "it probably isn't monotheistic", I am saying that the claim is probably false, Social Trinitarian beliefs are incompatible with genuine monotheism.

 

[kwag_myers]

Also, my statement isn't Social Trinitarianism, either. I don't believe that Jesus is God, but is part of the Godhead.

When I say, "we" I am referring to all those who believe in the Godhead. I should have qualified that.

Social Trinitarians believe in three persons as God (without considering the God issue) and they believe that one person, the Son, became incarnate. Which part of this do you disagree with?

I don't believe that all three are God, but they all make up the Godhead. Each has a specific function, but both the Son and the Holy Spirit are submitted to the will of the Father.

 

[DivineNames]

I don't believe that all three are God, but they all make up the Godhead. Each has a specific function, but both the Son and the Holy Spirit are submitted to the will of the Father.

"the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God"

(Athanasian Creed)


But you don't believe that the Son or Holy Spirit is God? Its heresy, but I guess that is nothing for me to worry about. :D

 

[von]

I have attended the Apostolic church and had many discussions with the Pastor, I'm sorry but that is as far fetched a doctrine as I have ever heard. He explained it like this. Well first I asked him if they were oneness because that sort of gets hidden for awhile. He just said to me I believe the three are one. I said, "like a man and woman get married are one?" He said, "No, like I am a husband, a father, and a son." Well, if that is what you believe to me that would be not only heresy but blaspheme. To depict Christ as a person who moves about within personalities, come on now. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I have to be careful because I tend to do that alot, but this doesn't even make sense to me. I do love the music in the apostolic church though. They have some of the best. Mark Condon is one of my favorites.

 

[kwag_myers]

I have attended the Apostolic church and had many discussions with the Pastor, I'm sorry but that is as far fetched a doctrine as I have ever heard. He explained it like this. Well first I asked him if they were oneness because that sort of gets hidden for awhile. He just said to me I believe the three are one. I said, "like a man and woman get married are one?" He said, "No, like I am a husband, a father, and a son." Well, if that is what you believe to me that would be not only heresy but blaspheme. To depict Christ as a person who moves about within personalities, come on now. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I have to be careful because I tend to do that alot, but this doesn't even make sense to me. I do love the music in the apostolic church though. They have some of the best. Mark Condon is one of my favorites.

Yep, I'm with you on that. And I go to an Apostolic church. I think it's more like God the Father wills it, Jesus the Son speaks it (the Word was made flesh - John 1:14), and the Holy Spirit makes it happen.

As for DivineNames' heresy comment, Jesus was called the same, so I'm not too worried about it either. You can put all the labels on it that you like, I don't care. And there may well be a time when I change my view. So what? My desire is to learn more about God and His ways. Funny, He's never told me, "Now, Kwaggie Boy, I want you to be a Post-Millenialist for a while. We'll change that to a Pre-Millenialist in a few years." He just opens my eyes to the possibilities and the not-so-possibilities.

 

[von]

I am not calling anyone names here just responding to what was said about those who believe in the Trinity. I just think is is absurd to take and make a doctrine out of something that obviously is clear in the Bible. To take away from the deity of the Father and the Holy Spirit as beings. No harm meant.

 

[DivineNames]

As for DivineNames' heresy comment, Jesus was called the same, so I'm not too worried about it either. You can put all the labels on it that you like, I don't care.

When I said you were a heretic, I was saying it purely as a factual point. (there is nothing bad about being a heretic in my view)