[_ Old Earth _] DATING METHODS SHOWING A YOUNG EARTH

[Barbarian]

It should be noted that some long period comets have periods of many thousands of years or even millions of years.

How do we know this? We can observe their orbits, and apply Kepler's laws to determine the orbit and the period it takes to complete one orbit. Hence the notion of 10,000 years to evaporate is silly. It takes longer than that for most of the long-period comets to complete one orbit.

How?

Kepler's first law says that orbits are ellipses, with the sun at one of the two foci.

Kepler's second law says that equal areas are swept out by the comet in equal amounts of time.

Kepler's third law says that the ratio of the squares of the revolutionary periods for two planets is equal to the ratio of the cubes of their semimajor axes.

So, we can take a comet that has an apohelion of one light year, and that gives us a semimajor axis of about 0.5 light year. By definition, the Earth is one AU from the Sun, and has a period of one year. There are 9,500,000,000,000 kilometers in a light year, and 150,000,000 kilometers in an AU. So then 0.5 light years are about 31667 AUs.

So.... Comet period squared/1 = Comet distance cubed/1

Which means that a comet with an apohelion of one light year would take about 5.6 million years to make one orbit.

 

[Radical Edward]

yeap, however the comets that alot of people focus on in these arguments are the short orbit ones like halleys.

 

[Barbarian]

That's a loser, too. We now can directly observe the Kuyper Belt, and we can detect the larger objects in it. There are uncounted millions of objects in the belt, plenty of material for the occasional one that is disturbed in orbit and falls toward the sun to become a relatively short-lived, short period comet.

 

[Radical Edward]

Thanks for that, I always had the kupier belt muddled with the Oort Cloud.

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

That was an interesting read. Intrigued by the evolution of species, I spoke to our local chaplin about christianity, the bible and the theory of evolution. He too brought up some good points about christianity, but a lot of points that contradicted scientific proof and evidence.

I see Garret you have talked about Noah's Ark in your post. Also I have read Jimbo's very good Argument on the topic and I would like to bring forward my own argument which I also spoke to my local chaplin about.
Why doesn't the bible scientifically explain the so called 'great flood'. Where did the water come from and go to?
How was Noah able to take care of all the animals?
How did all the animals fit on the ark?
Geologically and historically there is no evidence of a flood.
Egyptians were writing on Papyrus leaves in 3000 b.c., and the Greeks as far back as 1000 b.c., and they have no record of a flood. This whole story can not be explained without invoking multiple miracles that are not mentioned in the scripture.

All you people that keep trying to prove any little fault in Christianity. God is a worker of miracles. No that isn't just to make excuses but he has made "multiple miracles" that are not mentioned in scripture. If you read the book of John it says in the end that Jesus made many more micales and if they were all put into the book they would not fit. Something along that line. So I am sure that many miracles and stories that would be great additions to the bible were not added.

According to the Bible, evidence of God's power was once in abundance. Joshua stopped the sun (Joshua 10:12), God utterly destroys Sodom and Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24-28), and a donkey talked to his master (Numbers 22:21-30). And yet, today one is told that God "doesn't always answer prayers", "works in mysterious ways", or "works in subtle ways". These sound to me like excuses for the unexplainable way that God does not seem to physically affect our lives.

I have never heard that God doesn't always answer prayers. Time and time again I have seen the answer to prayer pop up right in my face. You can say anything you want but God does affect mine and any other Christians life. You might want to read this book. "Jesus Freaks" DcTalk and the voice of the martyrs. That will really tell you how God affects peoples lives until the very end.

Few people would say that dinosaurs did not once roam the earth, and yet the Bible, which contains a history of the world, makes no mention of them. It does speak of behemoths (Job 40:15-19), but this reference is surely lacking considering how prevalent they would have been.
However we have seen fossils and have seen abundant proof that Dinosoars once existed.

The bible does not actually point out dinosaurs, but there are many other animals it does not point out either. But it did say in Genesis that there were large beasts, or animals or something. I will try to find the exact scripture.

quote]

 

[Radical Edward]

All you people that keep trying to prove any little fault in Christianity. God is a worker of miracles. No that isn't just to make excuses but he has made "multiple miracles" that are not mentioned in scripture.

the issue is more with interpretation of the Bible, than pointing out flaws in christianity itself. as a moral code and even a religious doctrine it is very good in my opinion, but to try and extrapolate from it that the world is 6000 years old and then come up with a load of pretend science and flawed examples to support one's argument... now that I do have issue with!

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

There is a vast difference between a sphere and a circle. You can nave a circular earth that is flat, but not a spherical one. The bible refers to the earth as flat, not as a sphere. And yes, the early Hebrews would know what a sphere was.

Yes, but don't forget God himself did not write the bible. Man did. Man makes mistakes. I'm sure that's just a play of words anyway but the fact remains. And spheres and circles do have a relatively similar shape. (Even though a shere is a ball.)

 

[Barbarian]

Very early on, people realized that the Earth was round, by the shadow it made on the Moon during lunar eclipses.

It wasn't until about 300 BC that people realized that it was also a sphere. Eratosthenes measured it's diamter very accurately about 350 BC.

Apparently, that verse was written sometime between those two times.

 

[Radical Edward]

the ancient Egyptians must have known it was spherical too, the poroportions of the pyramids are not that likely to be a coincidence.

same goes for the mayans I think, though I will have to check up on that.

 

[Barbarian]

Some of the pyramid features are due to astronomical considerations. Most of them have been "fudged" to make a good story.

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

We're getting off topic. We were talking about how old the earth is. :robot:

 

[Barbarian]

The evidence says that the Earth is abouit 4.5 billion years old.

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

Yes, but you are all forgeting one thing whether it can be scientifically proven or not. God sees time differently than us, and the bible said he created the earth in seven days. Now, whether or not they were refering to his time or Gods, nobody knows. :roll: But Moses wrote the book of Genesis when he was in the wilderness and Moses DID speak to God. :wink: Basically what I'm trying to say is that you guys are looking at this all scientifically and stuff. That's good, but you need to look at it through the view of the bible. You can't just say you can prove the earth is millions of years old. You need to look deeper into it. Is it possible that Christianity agrees with this? Yes it is possible. (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.) :robot:

 

[Barbarian]

Yes, but you are all forgeting one thing whether it can be scientifically proven or not.

"Proof" is not part of science. It merely goes with the preponderance of evidence.

God sees time differently than us, and the bible said he created the earth in seven days.

Six days. The literalists assume the six days in Genesis are literal, 24-hour ones.

We can't do science according to the religious theories of people who are a minority, even among their own religion.

Science only works on evidence.

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

God sees time differently than us, and the bible said he created the earth in seven days.

That was my mistake. Six days it is. But the fact remains. And You did not quote everything I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems like your trying to change something. . . . . . .

[quote:b635d] Six days. The literalists assume the six days in Genesis are literal, 24-hour ones.[quote:b635d]


[quote:b635d]We can't do science according to the religious theories of people who are a minority, even among their own religion.

Science only works on evidence.[/quote:b635d][/quote:b635d][/quote:b635d]

Which is exactrly why it is impossible to prove evolution, or creation possible or impossible until one of them comes up with enough evidence. Ex: The rapture accured, and Christians were taken away to Heaven. Prophecies during TrIBULATION.

 

[Scott]

There is evidence. What does the Bible say?

Evidence even existing today, night + day = the one day and is the same with everyday since then. Read Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31. Repetition of those words at the end of each day emphasizing a day's completion.

Also, here are two examples man cannot explain through logic or science.

1. Joshua 10:13-14 "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of
Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed
going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a man. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel!"

Its the omnipotence of Almighty God.

2. Matthew 27:45 "From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over the land."

The Bible tells us that Jesus died on a Friday just before Passover (Luke 22:13-15). This is important because the Jews scheduled Passover during a full moon. A solar eclipse cannot occur during a full moon. There is a second reason a solar eclipse cannot explain the darkness. Astronomical records show that no solar eclipse occurred on that date anywhere near the city of Jerusalem.

An eclipse could not have occurred during Jesus' crucifixion since the moon was in the wrong position. Natural events cannot explain what happened. The universe responded to the Creator's suffering and eventual death. A supernatural event occurred which testifies to Jesus' divinity.

Proof that God's supernatural power cannot be explained by logic or science.

 

[Barbarian]

"Godmustadunnit" is a religious idea, not a scientific theory. But since religious ideas are not subject to the rules of evidence, it's O.K.

 

[Scott]

Don't you mean science/logic rather than evidence. Evidence it has. The event occured. Understanding the how's and why's is where science shrugs its shoulders.

How does science understand angels, the burning bush, the many visions noted, Moses receiving the 10 commandments, parting of the Red Sea, collapse of the walls of Jericho, Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's wife, the firey furnace, Jonah, Samson's strength, the flood, miracles of Christ, resurrection of Christ, Christ walking on water, the death of Ananias and Sapphira and the meaning of the word eternal. Those are few of the many instances throughout the Bible that defy logic and science.

Scientific theory is the set of rules by which all things happened. The problem with that is God is beyond man's understanding. How can you confine God to a set of manmade ideas?

 

[Barbarian]

Don't you mean science/logic rather than evidence.

Nope.

Evidence it has. The event occured.

Evidence...? Perhaps you're thinking of a different event than I.

Understanding the how's and why's is where science shrugs its shoulders.

Science can do the how's of the physical universe. Once you get into the realms of magic and faith, it doesn't work.

How does science understand ... (lists miracles)

Those are few of the many instances throughout the Bible that defy logic and science.

They defy neither logic nor science. Science denies none of that. Nor does it endorse that. It can't comment on the supernatural.

Scientific theory is the set of rules by which all things happened.

No. Scientific theory is a set of well-tested ideas which explain physical phenomena.

The problem with that is God is beyond man's understanding. How can you confine God to a set of manmade ideas?

You don't. Mixing the supernatural and science is bad science, and even worse theology.

 

[The 13th Disciple of JC]

When I said evidence I didn't mean there wasn't any. Otherwise who woiuld believe?!?!?!?! I mean, come on! They've found pieces of Noah's ark on the same mountain the bible said it came to rest on! I'm just saying, that the more prophecy is fufilled, the more goes against evolution! It is impossible to by using science, prove that God actually does exist! And people who put their beliefs in what they can see or find out 4 themselves are missing out! I know God is real because time and time again I have answered prayers and the answers have appeared right in my face. One time I was getting a ride tro my Uncles shop and realized that we were going to get their in about fifteen minutes, and I had forgotten that it didn't open until an hour after! I put my head down right there and prayed that somehow, I wouldn't have to wait in the cold for all that time! And I swear, as soon as I lifted my head he car came to a complete stop aand there had been an accident ahead. I got there right on time. How can you NOT believe in God when you have experianced these kind of things????????