Deism

[reznwerks]

This is probably the only religion that does not get any recognition and is in reality Americas forgotton religion.
http://www.deism.com/

 

[YESHUA]

This is probably the only religion that does not get any recognition and is in reality Americas forgotton religion.
http://www.deism.com/

Really?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA coming soon, better repent of your wicked ways before it's to late

 

[nuhmmie]

it would appear that their god is only as big as they can think. the limits of their reasoning ability is the limit of their god.

it's a pagan religion known as humanism. they just found a way to describe themselves in such a way that they could differentiate themselves from the common mainstream of pagan sects. that's all. all in all whether or not they claim to believe in a god is a minor adaptation to humanism, but they still put the human mind, and thus themselves above everything else.

 

[reznwerks]

imagination

it would appear that their god is only as big as they can think. the limits of their reasoning ability is the limit of their god.

.

Then the inverse of your response is that the revealed God is only limited by your imagination.

 

[Chupacabra]

it's a pagan religion known as humanism. they just found a way to describe themselves in such a way that they could differentiate themselves from the common mainstream of pagan sects. that's all. all in all whether or not they claim to believe in a god is a minor adaptation to humanism, but they still put the human mind, and thus themselves above everything else.

Man, it totally rocks when people don't bother to research my beliefs at all before berating them. Thanks dude.

 

[Featherbop]

I don't entirely understand why anyone would want to be a deist.

If I have this correct, then basically, God(Whoever this is?) created a universe so that it "runs itself without need of God's sustainment."

So, I don't understand what the point is? Surely, this God would not punish anyone for disbelieving in Him if He has left mankind to itself.

Why would God even bother, if He just ups and leaves after creation?

Or is deism for those who agree with Pascal's wager?


Marck

 

[Chupacabra]

If I have this correct, then basically, God(Whoever this is?) created a universe so that it "runs itself without need of God's sustainment."

Actually, most people of all faiths believe this to one degree or another. We all believe that to an extent natural laws govern everyday events. For example, if I drop an object it will fall unless some other natural force prevents it from doing so. Deism essentially states that the universe works just like that and sees no reason to believe in miracles or divine intervention.

So, I don't understand what the point is? Surely, this God would not punish anyone for disbelieving in Him if He has left mankind to itself.

Yeah, that's probably one somewhat unique thing about Deism-- there is little motivation to believe in it. Christianity, Islam, and the like all preach eternal punishment for infidels. Buddhism, Taoism, and similar faiths claim their practices can better the individual's life and future incarnations. Deism, on the other hand, presents no such emolent to its adherents. Why then would anyone believe it? Simply because it makes sense and because we believe its true and for no other reason than that. I am a Deist not because I believe I'll have a better afterlife than the next guy, but because I really do agree with the tenents of Deism and value truth. In my opinion, little "motivators" like the belief in hell were created to get the individual to think less logically due to fear.

Why would God even bother, if He just ups and leaves after creation?

I really don't have an answer. Perhaps God was just some sort of semi- or non-cognizant force that created the matter from which the universe comes. That's another advantage of Deism closely related to the above point. We believe something simply because we believe its true, and we don't pretend to know things we don't. It is convenient for most other theists that they can have all their beliefs dictated to them, but Deists must go through the process of thinking for themselves on each individual issue. It can get difficult or confusing at times, but I feel independent thought is worthwhile.

Or is deism for those who agree with Pascal's wager?

Not in the least. There are so many religions (and so many that teach that most other faiths lead down wrong paths) that Pascal's wager is essentially rendered nonsensical. My personal wager goes something like this-- I won't waste my life serving a god and constraining myself simply because I'm afraid of something like hell that may or may not exist, with emphasis on the latter. Rather, I just try to live the best I can and try to be helpful and empathetic to those around me. If that isn't enough and it warrants an eternity of suffering, then I couldn't in good conscience worship such a wrathful and petty deity anyway.

 

[Vic C.]

Not in the least. There are so many religions (and so many that teach that most other faiths lead down wrong paths) that Pascal's wager is essentially rendered nonsensical. My personal wager goes something like this-- I won't waste my life serving a god and constraining myself simply because I'm afraid of something like hell that may or may not exist, with emphasis on the latter. Rather, I just try to live the best I can and try to be helpful and empathetic to those around me. If that isn't enough and it warrants an eternity of suffering, then I couldn't in good conscience worship such a wrathful and petty deity anyway.

Just a question (or two)...

Would you consider revering a God who created you? Meaning, aren't you the least bit grateful that he gave you life and all of Creation? And since both Old and New Testaments are accepted by many to be God's written word to us, could you at least agree that He DID intervene at some points in history? I will admit, there doesn't seem to be much direct revelation since Jesus' time (maybe the Reformation). But think about it, what more can One offer after offering up His Son?

So if you could concede to any of the above questions, maybe you should consider your self a partial-Deist. : :wink:

 

[Chupacabra]

Would you consider revering a God who created you? Meaning, aren't you the least bit grateful that he gave you life and all of Creation?

My parents created me and I do love them, but I can see what you're saying with the creation thing. I think that its great to be alive and the universe can be a pretty great place. Similarly, it can be not so good for others. While I do appreciate life, I really don't see how creation can merit adoration when most other theists suggest that their god created man for such shallow reasons-- essentially to worship him or to go to hell.

And since both Old and New Testaments are accepted by many to be God's written word to us, could you at least agree that He DID intervene at some points in history?

I do agree that he intervened at one point in history, namely the Big Bang. Other than that, most talk about "miracles" seems to be largely fanatical and contrary to Occam's Razor. Its quite unconvincing to me, regardless of how many people believe it.

I will admit, there doesn't seem to be much direct revelation since Jesus' time (maybe the Reformation). But think about it, what more can One offer after offering up His Son?

For me to really answer this question I must presuppose the divinity of Jesus and the interventionalism of God. I believe in neither. In addition, I don't see someone offerring someone else as a sacrifice is loving at all. Wouldn't a real act of love be from oneself instead of forcing another person to do something? This, of course, would be answered by a Christian that God and Jesus were really the same, yet in Gethsemene, Jesus admits that he does not want to be crucified, thus his will varies with that of Jehovah. I don't see how one conscious being, especially one so concrete and immutable in will as God, can have multiple varying wills.

 

[Asimov]

Would you consider revering a God who created you?

No. Why?

Meaning, aren't you the least bit grateful that he gave you life and all of Creation?

I'm happy that I'm alive, and that I live in a wonderful country, why should I be grateful?

And since both Old and New Testaments are accepted by many to be God's written word to us, could you at least agree that He DID intervene at some points in history?

I agree that some people think he intervened.

I will admit, there doesn't seem to be much direct revelation since Jesus' time (maybe the Reformation). But think about it, what more can One offer after offering up His Son?

b]Depends on if he offered up his son or not. And considering the amount of dispute over all this, I think he can offer a lot.[/b]

 

[reznwerks]

reason

I don't entirely understand why anyone would want to be a deist.

Deism is not something you join. Deism is something you become based on your reasoning and evidence. Thats the difference and shortcoming of revealed religions. You are either born into it ,or convinced by others to join. Your are either approached or you become interested in what you see and inquire about it for one reason or another. Either way someone else has to convince you and teach you how and what to think and accept when you join.

 

[YESHUA]

Re: reason

I don't entirely understand why anyone would want to be a deist.

Deism is not something you join. Deism is something you become based on your reasoning and evidence. Thats the difference and shortcoming of revealed religions. You are either born into it ,or convinced by others to join. Your are either approached or you become interested in what you see and inquire about it for one reason or another. Either way someone else has to convince you and teach you how and what to think and accept when you join.

You are totally ignorant of Christianity it is the Holy Spirit that convince a person of the truth not me or anybody else for that matter. You have all together missed the mark and by the look of it your totally lost and don't even know it. And as for teaching some one of morale behavior what is wrong with that?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA
chana

 

[reznwerks]

Re: reason

I don't entirely understand why anyone would want to be a deist.

Deism is not something you join. Deism is something you become based on your reasoning and evidence. Thats the difference and shortcoming of revealed religions. You are either born into it ,or convinced by others to join. Your are either approached or you become interested in what you see and inquire about it for one reason or another. Either way someone else has to convince you and teach you how and what to think and accept when you join.

You are totally ignorant of Christianity it is the Holy Spirit that convince a person of the truth not me or anybody else for that matter. You have all together missed the mark and by the look of it your totally lost and don't even know it. And as for teaching some one of morale behavior what is wrong with that?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA
chana

This post is not about Christiainty nor your prosylizing. The "Holy Spirit" doesn't convince anyone of anything. One has to "want" to be convinced on order to be convinced. I'm afraid it is you that has missed the mark and not been able to follow and or read the link. I am not lost as I who was a Christian at one time saw the evidence of the claims or rather the lack of evidence and have left it. Many others have as well and the more that investigate and try to prove the evidence they leave as well.You believe in spite of the evidence not because of it.

 

[nuhmmie]

LOL

I refer back to my original post. if you read your own posts, you'd see...it's humanism.

but hey, do what you want. if you think every christian was led by the nose and not one ever thought for themselves just all scared little rabbits and you all are the special few with the exceptional ability to "see though" the illogical fog of it all, then, cool. whatever you want :D

 

[Chupacabra]

I refer back to my original post. if you read your own posts, you'd see...it's humanism.

Not necessarily. There are really a number of "Humanist" philosophies, but most are totally silent on the existance of a god. The only tenet of Deism is that a god does indeed exist, but does not interact with the universe. The two are certainly compatible, but are by no means synonymous. For example, I don't agree with a number of beliefs held by Carl Rogers or Abraham Maslow yet I'm no less of Deist than those who do. Its always great to see that the good ol' Christian spirit of prejudice, misinformation, and generalization is alive and well on the internet.

 

[nuhmmie]

Its always great to see that the good ol' Christian spirit of prejudice, misinformation, and generalization is alive and well on the internet.

looks like you've got some good ol' prejudice in there youself little buddy! don't hide it on my account. LOL but it's all cool. if you want so despretely to believe I'm all the crappy things you say I am, okay. I'm cool with that. but the "deity" you purport to believe in is just token place holder. because in truth, you worship your own mind.

but as I said. whatever you want. :D

after all, not a single christian here has EVER been where you are now.

 

[Chupacabra]

You know what they say... ignorance is bliss!

 

[nuhmmie]

You know what they say... ignorance is bliss!

lol, the best part is that you apparently don't think that applies to you. so, such sayings must be true. :D

Have a good one! :wink:

 

[YESHUA]

Re: reason

I don't entirely understand why anyone would want to be a deist.

Deism is not something you join. Deism is something you become based on your reasoning and evidence. Thats the difference and shortcoming of revealed religions. You are either born into it ,or convinced by others to join. Your are either approached or you become interested in what you see and inquire about it for one reason or another. Either way someone else has to convince you and teach you how and what to think and accept when you join.

You are totally ignorant of Christianity it is the Holy Spirit that convince a person of the truth not me or anybody else for that matter. You have all together missed the mark and by the look of it your totally lost and don't even know it. And as for teaching some one of morale behavior what is wrong with that?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA
chana

This post is not about Christiainty nor your prosylizing. The "Holy Spirit" doesn't convince anyone of anything. One has to "want" to be convinced on order to be convinced. I'm afraid it is you that has missed the mark and not been able to follow and or read the link. I am not lost as I who was a Christian at one time saw the evidence of the claims or rather the lack of evidence and have left it. Many others have as well and the more that investigate and try to prove the evidence they leave as well.You believe in spite of the evidence not because of it.

May may upset aren't we and by the way I'm not proselytizing at all you started this and by your words will you be judged.
And the Holy Spirit does convince you if you let HIM.
Matthew

13When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

This is the Holy Spirit that convince people of the truth not you or me we can however point towards the truth namely JESUS, and it's truth that we believe in spite of evidence and not because of it.

You believe in spite of the evidence not because of it

yes that's correct, and what happen to you not enough belief? And what makes you think that your not lost?
shalom and love in the mane of YESHUA coming soon in spite of what you think
chana

 

[Chupacabra]

Yeshua, I personally think that your belief that the "Holy Spirit" came in contact with you shows some credulist notions, but all that aside, what would it prove? Say a supernatural being talks to you. How do you know it is God? Couldn't it just as easily be a demon? Couldn't it be an evil spirit masquerading as a good one to lure you away from truth. If we grant the existance of supernatural beings and you claim to have an experience with one, there is no way to know which one it is.