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Derek Chauvin Murder Trial

jasonc

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videos can be manipulated ,ie the media did this to the lapd.which caused,the la riots .the cops walked because evidence simply wasn't there to present the case ,the person beaten in,that video of 30 seconds was shown not the three hour video of said suspect nearly killing,cops,persons walking on,streets as he fled .
 

JLB

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Since the earliest part of this trial, one very important point that crossed my mind was why did the officers continue to restrain Mr. Floyd in the prone position on the ground with his hands cuffed behind his back, particularly after he had stopped resisting them? I feel this question will need an answer before this trial is over. Yesterday afternoon and particularly this morning, the prosecution has begun addressing this question.

Yes. Good question.

When we discover the past history between Derek Chauvin and George Floyd, it certainly raises questions.




JLB
 

JLB

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The threat of the city being burned should have no bearing on the jurists' decision. They should rule on the basis of the evidence presented and that is all.

True.


However, when are we going to see multiple arrests for the murder of the many people killed by BLM and Antifa, during the riots?


JLB
 

WIP

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Thought I'd post an update from my perspective. The prosecution rested its case on Tuesday and the defense began its case yesterday.

One thing that I noticed was that in both expert witness testimonies that have been presented so far, in my opinion, were basically torn apart by the prosecution. Both of them in the cross examination refuted things they said during the defense questioning and I felt that I could see an uneasiness in their posture as this was happening. In other words they looked a little like a deer caught in the headlights.

So far, I still have reservations with regard to the fact that the officers continued to restrain Mr. Floyd even after he became nonresponsive and one of the officers noted that he had no pulse. I believe it was at this time they had a duty to render aid to Mr. Floyd and attempt to revive him but continued to restrain him for nearly 4 more minutes. In fact, one of the witnesses for the defense, yesterday, agreed with that statement when cross examined by the prosecution.
 

WIP

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Well, if you haven't already heard, the verdict is done. Derek Chauvin was found guilty of 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder, and 2nd degree manslaughter. I personally didn't think he would get the 2nd degree murder conviction but the jury does have certain criteria to weigh the evidence against in order to make that decision. Not actually being in that deliberation and seeing that criteria, I can only assume they made a their decision appropriately.
 

JLB

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Now the appeal process will begin.
 

WIP

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I'm not particularly keen with all the celebrating and memorialization of Mr. Floyd though. After watching the trial, this wasn't a premeditated, murder and Mr. Chauvin is not a hideous monster. Mistakes were made, pride and arrogance may have played a role, neglect was certainly a factor, but it was not premeditated.

George Floyd tried to pass what appeared to be a counterfeit $20.00 bill and when he was approached by the police, he defied their instructions to keep his hands visible where they could see them. Eventually, they had to force him out of his SUV and place him in handcuffs under arrest. His supporters claim he didn't resist arrest but the officer's body cams prove otherwise as it took both officers to remove him from his vehicle and cuff him.

Then, after questioning him, they walked him over to the officers' squad car to place him in the back seat for transport to the police station and this is when he really began to resist arrest to the nth degree putting up a fight to which four officers were unable to get him into the vehicle.

One of the officers went around to the other side of the vehicle to help pull Mr. Floyd into the back seat but Mr. Floyd kicked hard enough to lunge right through the vehicle with half of his body out onto the street. The other officers then moved around to assist and they took him out of the squad car and forced him onto the ground in a prone position.

Throughout all of this, Mr. Floyd claimed he was claustrophobic and couldn't breath. Funny thing is, almost a year earlier to the day, May 6, 2019, Mr. Floyd was arrested and placed into the back seat of a squad car without much trouble and there was never any question about him being claustrophobic at that time.

It was after this that things got out of hand. According to testimonies by cardiologists, pulmonologists, forensic scientists, toxicology reports, and even the officers' own comments recorded on body cams Mr. Floyd died while being held down in the prone position with the officers' weight on his neck and back restricting his ability to get adequate air to breathe.

Toxicology reports showed that he did not have enough debilitating drugs in his blood to cause problems. By their own body cam recordings the officers were full aware of Mr. Floyd no longer breathing or having a pulse but they continued to hold him and apply pressure for almost four more minutes, failing to take action to resuscitate him and that was the criminal act because they are fully trained in the use of the prone position (should only be temporary to subdue), side recovery position (what they should do after subduing), first aid, and CPR and are expected to render aid when necessary.

I can say with almost 100% certainty that had Mr. Floyd respected their authority and just followed their instructions, he would be alive today but that does not absolve the officers from their responsibility in this case and protecting him while he was in their care. There is a degradation of respect for authority going on and when people resist it, bad things will happen.

Dante Wright would be alive today had he respected the officers' authority and just followed instructions but he chose to resist and fight and was accidentally shot in the process. Yes, the officer has been charged with manslaughter because she had a duty to know what she was doing and failed to do so but this does not absolve Dante Wright from his part in what happened. Unfortunately, he is no longer capable of defending his part.

Jacob Blake would be alive today too had he respected the officers' authority and just followed instructions but he also chose to resist, defy the officers, and fight and died in the process.

This has nothing to do with race but has everything to do with disrespecting the authority.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.
Romans 13:1-2 ESV
 
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Cyberseeker

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I pray for the US sometimes that these abuses don’t grow into irreversible divisions. The last few years have been hard to watch. Do you remember the song a few years back, “I am the LORD that healeth thee”
 
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i dunno. for one thing, I think all this race-race-race talk is obscuring the real, main issue: social class. not that race is not an issue, just...overall, black people have less $$$ and therefore less power, than white people. but there are plenty of poor and working class white people who are also on society's discard heap and are treated poorly, all day every day, and I don't think this non-stop emphasis on racial (in)justice is all that constructive, over the long haul...

-but- it does let self-righteous, often affluent, left wing whites feel morally superior and uber-enlightened, while still engaging in class warfare and oppression of the (not black, never ever black) poor.

blah blah blah...personally, I'm thankful Chauvin got all guilty-verdicts. I -wish- Maxine Waters had -not- used her stature and position to demand all guilty verdicts, but...OK. OK. she's got a career to think about, I think her stock went up a good bit from her grand standing, so...win-win. dude gets condemned, she gets more leverage in her career.

what creeps me out is that I kinda suspect that things have already gotten worse, not better...and maybe Biden's infrastructure plan will help, by (re)building a skilled, more prosperous working class (?), but...

the billionaire$ have gained ma$$ive amount$ under covid-craziness. the poor and working classes have lost ground. what's left of the middle-middle class is more anxious than ever (how could they not be?), and then the upper middle and well to do classes..by and large seem to increasingly float thru it, minor hit there, some raises here, life goes on.

the move seems to be towards a -more authoritarian- style of government, no matter who is in power. so, now, we have a center-left President (overall, I approve of Biden, btw), but the old problems remain: the vast majority of citizens' voices in the United States do.not.matter, at all. so...ramble, ramble...

i kinda think the new(er) authoritarianism in these united states may take a softer outward appearance. I read, for instance, that minor, non-emergency police calls in some areas are being dealt with by mental health 'experts.' so far, saved $$$, reduced cost$. good for the gov't, fewer people in jail over minor issues, ok. thing is...mental health is a form of social control (not 60s radical, just...stating the truth, as I see and experience it), and behind all that "let's talk about -feelings- " and "these pills will help your (insert label HERE)" talk is...

power. control. -shrug- i dunno. I don't violate the law these days, don't do drugs, etc., and I"m not some kind of anti-gov't individual, its just...even if all this 'racial justice' stuff makes things appear better, its not as if there aren't already other, softer, sometimes less expen$ive methods of social control available. and with so many people (of all races, btw) losing spending power, stagnant wages...then one hits the top 20% or so and its like a whole different world...

blah blah blah...no one is talking about corrective action to the core of the economy, to the core of society. talk about 'racial justice,' shell out to the great-great-great-great-great-grandchildren of slaves, blah blah blah...

costs a lot less than fixing -real- problems and hurts a lot less than open discussion about the realities of life and work in 21st century usa.

--the end-- :)
 

WIP

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There was nothing in the whole George Floyd incident that I could identify as something to do with race. A man was suspected of trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill and when approached became belligerent. Things escalated from there. I don't see how this would have gone any differently with all else being equal if George had white skin. There has certainly been an effort to paint this incident as a racial incident but I don't see it. What am I missing?

As far as earnings go, white people are not at the top of the heap. Asian men and women and Pacific Islander men make up the top of the pile. Pacific Islander women and Hispanic men do better than white women and Hispanic women do comparable to white women.

 
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he murdered George Floyd. I think it was only "racial" insofar as black people are more vulnerable to such brutality than white people, right off the bat. my best guess is that this cop has abused his authority with lots and lots of poor people of all races. equal opportunity fascist, basically.
 

WIP

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he murdered George Floyd. I think it was only "racial" insofar as black people are more vulnerable to such brutality than white people, right off the bat. my best guess is that this cop has abused his authority with lots and lots of poor people of all races. equal opportunity fascist, basically.
I think you're making assumptions based on your own bias. I know you seem to have a thorn in your side for law enforcement, authority, and even those that have managed to be successful. I've sensed that not only in this thread but in other discussions that have been had on CFnet.

Watching the trial unfold, I didn't see anything that could point to race being involved. In fact, one of the Mpls. police officers was Asian as well as the local Park Police officer that responded and Asians are not white.

I agree that the officer abused his authority but I do not believe he went into this situation with that intent. I believe his pride, arrogance, and anger fed into the situation and things got out of hand and went too far and now he has to answer for his actions and/or failure to act.

George Floyd was not an innocent boy scout here either. The whole situation began because he disrespected the authority of the police, resisted arrest, and vehemently fought with them rather than following their instructions and waiting for his day in court. There's no excuse for his actions either.

All the memorializing of George Floyd only feeds that attitude that we can be jerks and resist arrest. That just isn't so. People are getting more and more arrogant and disrespectful too and for this reason, I think in addition to reviewing law enforcement practices and training, we should also be taking a very hard look at the penalties for resisting arrest as well.
 
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I think you're making assumptions based on your own bias. I know you seem to have a thorn in your side for law enforcement, authority, and even those that have managed to be successful. I've sensed that not only in this thread but in other discussions that have been had on CFnet.

Watching the trial unfold, I didn't see anything that could point to race being involved. In fact, one of the Mpls. police officers was Asian as well as the local Park Police officer that responded and Asians are not white.

I agree that the officer abused his authority but I do not believe he went into this situation with that intent. I believe his pride, arrogance, and anger fed into the situation and things got out of hand and went too far and now he has to answer for his actions and/or failure to act.

George Floyd was not an innocent boy scout here either. The whole situation began because he disrespected the authority of the police, resisted arrest, and vehemently fought with them rather than following their instructions and waiting for his day in court. There's no excuse for his actions either.

All the memorializing of George Floyd only feeds that attitude that we can be jerks and resist arrest. That just isn't so. People are getting more and more arrogant and disrespectful too and for this reason, I think in addition to reviewing law enforcement practices and training, we should also be taking a very hard look at the penalties for resisting arrest as well.
This denial on your part would only serve to trigger me so I won't comment. This country needs healing. May real solutions prevail over the status quo.
 

jasonc

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while chauvin may be guilty ,I agree with dershowitz ,his right to fair and impartial,jury is denied .

if you all doubt ,look up how the Miranda right came to be ,Miranda ,raped a girl was convicted and was in prison ,he was guilty ,his conviction was overturned over the fact he not know ,that he could have defended himself with a right to speak with a lawyer and kept silent .he later was killed by a man who was read his Miranda rights and not charged ,a bar fight .

to deny civil rights to the defendant ,is more horrible then to deny justice .kangaroo courts and mob justice are horrors to be avoided
 
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WIP

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while chauvin may be guilty ,I agree with dershowitz ,his right to fair and impartial,jury is denied .

if you all doubt ,look up how the Miranda right came to be ,Miranda ,raped a girl was convicted and was in prison ,he was guilty ,his conviction was overturned over the fact he not know ,that he could have defended himself with a right to speak with a lawyer and kept silent .he later was killed by a man who was read his Miranda rights and not charged ,a bar fight .

to deny civil rights to the defendant ,is more horrible then to deny justice .kangaroo courts and mob justice are horrors to be avoided
I agree that after all was said and done, Mr. Chauvin's right to a fair trial by impartial jury was denied. This happens in just about any high profile case. The media distorts and broadcasts facts so fast that finding people that haven't already been exposed to the media's bias is improbable to nearly impossible. I am willing to bet that every single member of the jury entered the trial with preconceived biases, not to mention the public pressure that also was placed on them.

People often conflate justice with vengeance and that is wrong. Vengeance is best left up to God and not man.
 

jasonc

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I agree that after all was said and done, Mr. Chauvin's right to a fair trial by impartial jury was denied. This happens in just about any high profile case. The media distorts and broadcasts facts so fast that finding people that haven't already been exposed to the media's bias is improbable to nearly impossible. I am willing to bet that every single member of the jury entered the trial with preconceived biases, not to mention the public pressure that also was placed on them.

People often conflate justice with vengeance and that is wrong. Vengeance is best left up to God and not man.
see the Ashley gang ,you,may look them,up.

was that justice or vengeance .I understand why but nothing even close to what was done to them is reported today .

that said ,is the idea of the sword to avenge the wrongdoing from God .?
 

WIP

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One way to know if the motive is vengeance vs justice is to ask the question, "What if the jury found the evidence to be unconvincing and acquitted the defendant?" Would the public accept that result? The answer is found in the fact that our MN national guard was activated and on alert.
 
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