Deuteronomy 13 test.

[for_his_glory]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God.

We need to present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow the light of Christ shine in us and through us. This is a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

Morality in God is His greatest commandment of love as we treat others as we want others to treat us. God is love and wants us to love and treat others as He loves and treats us.

Matthew 22:
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Humblepie]

The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices.

I can agree with most of what you claim with one exception.

That being said, there isn't any place in the OT that claims that any part of the Law will cease after the fulfillment of the messiahs death.


It may sound strange, the Bible does indicate that animal sacrifices will take place during the millennial kingdom. Ezekiel 43—46 offers the most developed prophecies regarding these practices as it deals with the Jewish temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom and what takes place in it. Specifically, the line of Zadok will offer sacrifices (44:15). Specific animal sacrifices are described in chapters 45—46 and include rams, lambs, and bulls.

In addition to Ezekiel, Isaiah discusses sacrifices in the future millennial kingdom, stating: "their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar" (Isaiah 56:7). Zechariah 14:16 adds, "Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths." This celebration would also include animal sacrifices. Jeremiah 33:18 notes that during this time period, "the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever."

It is clear that the continued use of animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom is a fulfillment of God's prophecies made long ago. If animal sacrifices do not resume in this time period, this will mean God has not kept His promises in this area. Yet God always keeps His promises (Deuteronomy 7:9).

 

[Hidden In Him]

To all those who think that all the laws have been fulfilled in Christ you are very wrong as below are the laws that are written upon our heart and can only be fulfilled when Christ returns and makes an end to sin by throwing it into the lake of fire with that of the beast and the false prophets. The only laws that Christ has fulfilled so far are that of the Temple and its sacrifices. Someone please show me in scripture where Jesus has fulfilled all the laws, because in Matthew 22:35-40 and Matthew 5:17, 18 Jesus does not say that he has already fulfilled all of them, but that love was the greatest of them all.

Well that's an interesting argument, sister...

What laws are you saying have not been fulfilled yet though?

- H

 

[Hopeful 2]

Well, most of the Western world does practice circumcision now, only they do it not long after birth, and I'm not sure the Jews in ancient times did it that soon. I thought it was a covenant act, and therefore done consciously later in life or something.

The Jews do it on the eighth day of life. (Lev 12:3)
My point was that if any of the Law is required for a Christians' salvation, so too is circumcision: which Paul fought against on multiple occasions.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It may sound strange, the Bible does indicate that animal sacrifices will take place during the millennial kingdom. Ezekiel 43—46 offers the most developed prophecies regarding these practices as it deals with the Jewish temple that will exist during the millennial kingdom and what takes place in it. Specifically, the line of Zadok will offer sacrifices (44:15). Specific animal sacrifices are described in chapters 45—46 and include rams, lambs, and bulls.

In addition to Ezekiel, Isaiah discusses sacrifices in the future millennial kingdom, stating: "their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar" (Isaiah 56:7). Zechariah 14:16 adds, "Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths." This celebration would also include animal sacrifices. Jeremiah 33:18 notes that during this time period, "the Levitical priests shall never lack a man in my presence to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings, and to make sacrifices forever."

It is clear that the continued use of animal sacrifices during the millennial kingdom is a fulfillment of God's prophecies made long ago. If animal sacrifices do not resume in this time period, this will mean God has not kept His promises in this area. Yet God always keeps His promises (Deuteronomy 7:9).

Yes. And I've often wondered if these might be modified sacrifices that do not involve blood, but that doesn't seem too consistent with what the passages actually suggest. I've heard some say that there can't be animal sacrifices anymore because the True Lamb has now been slain, but what if it is in commemoration of His blood sacrifice?

It's a mystery to me, but another thing is why would the nations follow after Satan again after the thousand years are up and he is released from prison. The continuation of blood sacrifice might be resented by some, and used as an argument that He is an evil god. I think blood sacrifices may be completely discontinued after Satan's final downfall, but until then it's interesting to think about.

 

[Humblepie]

The main point, if not the entire point, of Galatians is a refutation of following the law of Moses for justification.

Then why do you change the context to "LAW" or "NO LAW"

 

[Humblepie]

My point was that if any of the Law is required for a Christians' salvation

I have NEVER claimed that or anything close to that.
Salvation first, obedience second.
Be not hearers but doers.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I have NEVER claimed that or anything close to that.

Hmmm.
You had me fooled.

Salvation first, obedience second.
Be not hearers but doers.

Obedience first: salvation on the day of judgement.

 

[Humblepie]

Yes. And I've often wondered if these might be modified sacrifices that do not involve blood, but that doesn't seem too consistent with what the passages actually suggest. I've heard some say that there can't be animal sacrifices anymore because the True Lamb has now been slain, but what if it is in commemoration of His blood sacrifice?

It's a mystery to me, but another thing is why would the nations follow after Satan again after the thousand years are up and he is released from prison. The continuation of blood sacrifice might be resented by some, and used as an argument that He is an evil god. I think blood sacrifices may be completely discontinued after Satan's final downfall, but until then it's interesting to think about.

I think they will occur exactly as commanded by the Torah.

 

[Humblepie]

You had me fooled

If you look through my post in my profile I have repeatedly expressed my belief.

1) saved by grace through faith, it is a gift of God NOT of works lest any man should boast.

2) obedience to God's will after salvation.

I believe the whole Bible is Truth, and when you remove the law, you change too many scriptures that claim the law given to Moses for all generations, to the foreigner and to the israelites, that is called TRUTH, into lies.

I refuse to accept that God lied in the OT scripture and that he really meant the law was temporary.

I believe as long as there is sin, the law is still applicable.

2Tim. 3 Verses 16 to 17
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


This was written before there was a NT. So all the first 5 books of the Bible are still valid doctrine.

 

[Humblepie]

Obedience first: salvation on the day of judgement.

I can accept that view. We are obediant to our convicted heart first, and in the end we are saved from the second death, but in today's terminology we claim they are saved the second we repent, then we follow up our rebirth with obedience to God's word.

Just like Abraham, we are counted as righteous through faith, even before circumcision, and the fruit of that faith is obedience.

 

[Humblepie]

Paul fought against on multiple occasions.

He did not preach against circumcision if you have a circumcised heart and do it out of obedience, only if you use it as a means to salvation.

If he was against it why did he have Tinotheous circumcised?


Acts 16

16 Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

 

[Humblepie]

Peter began to revert back to following the law of Moses,

He didn't revert back, he never left.

11 The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. 2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him 3 and said, “You went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them.”

It doesn't say he was eating unclean animals.

8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has (((((((ever))))))) entered my mouth.’

I believe nothing unclean has ever entered the mouth of Peter, and scripture never claims the opposite, so stating that he did without scripture to back it is false doctrine.

The context is he was eating with Gentiles which the oral law forbid. The oral law is not the Law of Moses.

 

[Humblepie]

Draw back from the Gentiles unless they observe Jewish customs.

The Law given to Moses sys this.

Lev 19
The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

 

[Humblepie]

If the Law of Moses was eliminated as most Christians believe, where in the law and prophets was the repealing of the law fortold.

As Amos states:

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.


The law is a pillar of OT life for the jews, it was so important that if it was broken one could be put to death.
If God's plan was to end the law at the cross surly he would have foretold it beforehand like Amos 3:7 states, after all, the elimination of the law would have huge consequences.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you look through my post in my profile I have repeatedly expressed my belief.
1) saved by grace through faith, it is a gift of God NOT of works lest any man should boast.
2) obedience to God's will after salvation.

Has your belief allowed you to be 100% obedient ?
If not, then that belief must be in error.
Or you are in error.

I believe the whole Bible is Truth, and when you remove the law, you change too many scriptures that claim the law given to Moses for all generations, to the foreigner and to the israelites, that is called TRUTH, into lies.

The Law pointed us to something better.
The Law couldn't make a man perfect. (Heb 7:11)
Christ can. (Heb 7:19)

I refuse to accept that God lied in the OT scripture and that he really meant the law was temporary.

What was once written on paper is now written on the hearts of the obedient-reborn-sons of God.
There is no longer any need for an OT when we can live under a NT.

I believe as long as there is sin, the law is still applicable.

Sin has been conquered by Jesus Christ.
He lived without it, and now we can too...thanks be to God !

2Tim. 3 Verses 16 to 17
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Perfect !
Has your adherence to the old enabled your perfection ?
If so, you would be the first.

This was written before there was a NT. So all the first 5 books of the Bible are still valid doctrine.

Sure they are.
But their application died with Christ.
There is no more temple, or priesthood, or animal sacrifice, or circumcision of the flesh, or days of atonement.
There is no need for any of that anymore.

To adhere to all of that now dead Law, means you don't beleive that Jesus conquered sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I can accept that view. We are obediant to our convicted heart first,

Why would you obey a convicted heart ?
Obey God !

and in the end we are saved from the second death,

If we endure faithfully until the end, we will be saved.

but in today's terminology we claim they are saved the second we repent, then we follow up our rebirth with obedience to God's word.

Don't use today's terminology.
Obey God, and if you do, the day of judgement will justify your claim of salvation.

Just like Abraham, we are counted as righteous through faith, even before circumcision, and the fruit of that faith is obedience.

Have you been free of sin since your "faith" ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

He did not preach against circumcision if you have a circumcised heart and do it out of obedience, only if you use it as a means to salvation.

Circumcision isn't a commandment of Jesus or of any of His apostles.
So who are the advocates of circumcision ?
Not Christians.

If he was against it why did he have Tinotheous circumcised?

Tim was circumcised so he would be allowed into Jewish synagogues.

 

[Humblepie]

Has your belief allowed you to be 100% obedient ?
If not, then that belief must be in error.
Or you are in error.

Romans 7: 19-25
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?
25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

The Law pointed us to something better.

It still does.

There is no longer any need for an OT

2Tim. 3 :16
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Sin has been conquered by Jesus Christ.

Correct.

He lived without it, and now we can too...

If your honest you can't say you can you can be perfect. You do have grace though.
Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Perfect !
Has your adherence to the old enabled your perfection ?

What are you trying to prove in theology with this question?

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Sure they are.
But their application died with Christ.
There is no more temple, or priesthood, or animal sacrifice, or circumcision of the flesh, or days of atonement.
There is no need for any of that anymore.

The only part of the law that died with christ according to scripture.
Gal 3:13
13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.

The law came with blessings and curses, so why wasn't the blessings nailed to the cross as well.

To adhere to all of that now dead Law, means you don't beleive that Jesus conquered sin

You couldn't be more wrong.

Have you been free of sin since your "faith" ?

How does this relate to theology?
Try to stay on topic, this thread isn't about me, it's about doctrine.

So who are the advocates of circumcision ?

GOD.

 

[Humblepie]

Tim was circumcised so he would be allowed into Jewish synagogues.

Scripture?