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Did Jesus Have Brothers And Sisters ?

CatholicXian said:
Furthermore, if Jesus did have brothers and sisters--by blood. Then we really would have a Da Vinci Code type scandal on our hands--for the siblings of Jesus would be directly related to Jesus, by blood (and not just the blood of the cross), but by genetics. And then there would be people walking this earth today, who are distant true relatives of Christ--by genetics, and not merely in the Christian fraternal sense.
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First of all, distant relatives of Christ wouldn't necessarily be still roaming the earth - blood lines die out all the time. But even if there were, why would this be a "scandal", or any sort of problem at all?
 
Couple more interesting things to help you in your study lewis.

Matt.27
[56] among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zeb'edee.
[61] Mary Mag'dalene and the other Mary were there, sitting opposite the sepulchre.

Matt.28
[1] Now after the sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Mag'dalene and the other Mary went to see the sepulchre.

Mark.16
[1] And when the sabbath was past, Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salo'me, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him.
[9] Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

Mark.15
[40] There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo'me,
[47] Mary Mag'dalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.

John 19
[25]
So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag'dalene.
[26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
[27] Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.
[28]

Luke 24
[10] Now it was Mary Mag'dalene and Jo-an'na and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles;


Okay, we have this Mary who is the mother of James in Mark 16 and Luke 24. We have "the other mary" and Mary the mother of Joses in Mark 15 and Matt 27, 28 respectively. Mary the mother of Joses and the other Mary are identified as being with Mary Magadalene when they watch where Jesus is laid. Mary the Mother of James is the Mary, with Mary Magadalen when they tell the apostles (luke 24) they have seen the Lord. Mark 15 has Mary Magdalene and Mary the Mother of James the younger (less) looking on from afar. In Mark 15 there is a Mary, looking on from afar who is Mary, mother of James and Joses. Hmmmm.

Seems almost dead certain that "the other Mary", Mary the mother of Joses, and Mary the Mother of James and Joses, and Mary the mother of James the younger (less) are all the same Mary. :-? Note that not once are any of these Mary's identified as Mary the Mother of Jesus and in John 19 it is clear that we have another Mary (Mary wife of Clopas) with the group who is not the mother of Jesus. Further Mary the mother of Jesus is not mentioned in the passages where the women looked on from afar. Probably because she stayed right with the body. Or perhaps seeing her son to distraught it is not surprizing that she might have been taken away by the others. Perhaps John, who's care she was entrusted to and who was not at the tomb with the other two Mary's.

One more point. In John 19 it indicates that John and Mary are near the cross and likely the other women, who are together, are a bit further off. This is consistent with the separation shown in the other two Gospels and again indicates that Mary, mother of James and Joses and Mary the wife of Clopas are the same woman.

I do hope you follow all that. I think your author blew this one bad. As do many other authors who have to prove Mary had other children. Now I am not claiming to prove otherwise, just showing the bias they display in their "exegesis".


Blessings
 
Of course Mary had other children. The Bible said it so I believe it. As for the angel announcing to Mary she would have a baby, she was just engaged at that time so naturally she would be a virgin. It would not make Biblical sense for her to have been married and a virgin since the Bible says
1) men and women should not deny one another 2)one of the reasons people are instructed to marry in the Bible is to quench the "burning" for each other 3) God commanded "be fruitful and multiply" (multification is one of the purposes of marriage unless God chooses to close the womb of course). Mary was a rightous person so she would not have disregarded God's plan for marriage. If she had no physical interest in Joseph, she never would have married him. It certainly does not sound like she was forced into this marriage.
 
paisley said:
As for the angel announcing to Mary she would have a baby, she was just engaged at that time so naturally she would be a virgin.
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Yes... but that doesn't explain the "surprise". Why would Mary be surprised that the Angel announced that she WILL conceive? Naturally, when people get married, they usually get pregnant. The annoucement of a pregnancy should not surprise a woman if she was getting ready to be married/have sex.
 
Luke 1:26-27 it explains that Gabriel was sent by God to Mary, a virgin, engaged to be married to Joseph. In v. 31 he tells her she will conceive a baby. In v. 34 she said, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" Apparently the angel must have worded this declaration to her to make it plain and clear that this conception was going to happen during her engagement period while she was still a virgin for her to have responded in this way. She understood this which is why she was surprised. Then the angel explained she would conceived by the Holy Ghost and she accepted this. Apparently she got pregnant about the time of the annoucement because Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when the angel come to Mary and Mary went to stay with Elizabeth soon after receiving the announcement from Gabriel and at that time she went to Elizabeth, she was pregnant because John leaped in Elizabeth's womb upon encountering Jesus in Mary's womb. Mary stayed 3 months and about the time Mary left, Elizabeth delivered John. Perhaps if we could have heard Gabriel announce the conception himself, the announcement would have been more like an actual announcement that Mary was just about to conceive through the Holy Spirit, because apparently that is what happened and it sounds like that is how Mary interpretted it too. I don't think it was a vague announcement that she would conceive sometime in the future. I think it was much more specific than that.
 
Lewis, are you going to answer about the passages that your author says "prove" Mary had other children or not that I have refuted about. Doing this does not bind you to the viewpoint that Mary did not have other children. It is just an attempt at seeing if you can look at these passages in an unbiased manner.

Blessings
 
Paisley,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course Mary had other children. The Bible said it so I believe it.
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Continuing to look for that passage that says "Mary's son Bob" or "Mary's daughter suzy".

Haven't found it yet. If you are going to bring up the ones who are named as Jesus brother's, James, joses, simeon, etc. Please read my posts above. These passages DO NOT show that Mary had other children. Refute what I have posted if you think that they do. Thanks.

Blessings
 
thessalonian said:
Lewis, are you going to answer about the passages that your author says "prove" Mary had other children or not that I have refuted about. Doing this does not bind you to the viewpoint that Mary did not have other children. It is just an attempt at seeing if you can look at these passages in an unbiased manner.

Blessings
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thessalonian there is nothing to prove. Mary had some girls and boys the Bible says so, so there is nothing else to prove.
 
Lewis W said:
thessalonian said:
Lewis, are you going to answer about the passages that your author says "prove" Mary had other children or not that I have refuted about. Doing this does not bind you to the viewpoint that Mary did not have other children. It is just an attempt at seeing if you can look at these passages in an unbiased manner.

Blessings
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thessalonian there is nothing to prove. Mary had some girls and boys the Bible says so, so there is nothing else to prove.
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Chapter, vs. please Lewis. Thanks. Where does it say "mary's son bob"? Thanks. Did you read my posts refuting your post. You said you were going to answer my refutations. I am still waiting. Once again I am not asking you to committ to Mary not having other children. But do the passages in Matt 13, 27, and Gal 1:19 that your author claims are proof show what he wants them to. Sadly it seems to me they do not and he is abusing scripture. Does it not concern you that one might abuse scripture to "prove" their point and misuse passages to "prove" something. Even if he is right on the doctrine he holds, this should not be done. We must be careful how we use scripture. I would think that one who believes in Sola Scriptura would have this view about scripture. It seems you do not.

Throw me a bone here lewis. Is the Mary that your author says is the mother of James and Joses, Mary the mother of Jesus. Did you read and follow my analysis of the Mary's above?

Blessings
 
Lewis,

Please show that YOU can engage in the discussion that YOU started.

Thanks.
 
Answer: The Bible never gives an exact count, but Jesus’ siblings are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother pray for Him. Later in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings. There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are not the actual children of Mary and Joseph. They were obviously born after Jesus, because Jesus was born of a virgin (Isa 7:14; Luke 1:26-38).
 
Lewis W said:
Answer: The Bible never gives an exact count, but Jesus’ siblings are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother pray for Him. Later in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings. There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are not the actual children of Mary and Joseph. They were obviously born after Jesus, because Jesus was born of a virgin (Isa 7:14; Luke 1:26-38).
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In other words you did not bother to read my posts. Gal 1:19 says that James was an Apostle. Now are there three James that are apostles or did Mary marry alpheus or something? Because the only Apostles that I know of that are named James are the son of Zebedee and the son of Alpheus.


I noticed you left out the Matt 27 verse. Is that because you don't agree with your author that the James and Joses mentioned there are son's of Mary. i.e. brother can and does many times have a different meaning. i.e. that your author is misusing this passage and the James and Joses there are coincidentally named the same as the Matt 13 passage you site in both Matt and Mark but are really a different james and joses. One set the brothers of Jesus, Mary's sons, and one really not brother but relatives? How many families of relatives do you know that have the same name for two of their children. I don't know of any, though I will admit it is possible, but VERY RARE. Did you follow my analysis of the Mary's around the cross? Show where it is flawed. Thanks.

ENGAGE LEWIS this is a discussion board and I am trying to have one with you. What I am saying should not be heretical for you. I am not claiming I am proving that Mary did not have other children. Just attempting to show that those whom your author claims were her's are not at least in part of his passages. Why does this concern you so that you cannot admit that a fallible man could not have made a mistake or two and abused some scripture?
 
Thess, I have to get ready to go and take my uncle to the doctor, but I promise that when I return I will answer your question to my fullest capacity.
 
Lewis W said:
Thess, I have to get ready to go and take my uncle to the doctor, but I promise that when I return I will answer your question to my fullest capacity.
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Great! :P
 
Let's keep this up top for you lewis. Anyone else care to chime in. :-D
 
In other words you did not bother to read my posts. Gal 1:19 says that James was an Apostle. Now are there three James that are apostles or did Mary marry alpheus or something? Because the only Apostles that I know of that are named James are the son of Zebedee and the son of Alpheus.
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The apostle James was the older brother of John. But there are 3 people named James, but this James is not the brother of Jesus, The brother of Jesus wrote the book of James.
 
Lewis W said:
In other words you did not bother to read my posts. Gal 1:19 says that James was an Apostle. Now are there three James that are apostles or did Mary marry alpheus or something? Because the only Apostles that I know of that are named James are the son of Zebedee and the son of Alpheus.
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The apostle James was the older brother of John. But there are 3 people named James, but this James is not the brother of Jesus, The brother of Jesus wrote the book of James.
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Lewis, there were two apostles named James.

Matt.10
[2] The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb'edee, and John his brother;
[3] Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus;

Galations 1:19 tells us one of them is a brother of Jesus. Now that means we have a BROTHER who is NOT a SON OF MARY. So the word brother quite obviously has a broader meaning than from the same mother in the hebrew culture. Actually it does in our culture. Now once again you can say that the James that is spoken of whose mother was Mary, wife of Clopas, at the foot of the cross was another James and so there was three. But that still does not get you a James who is the son of Mary.

Now on what basis do you determine that the James who wrote the book is the son of Mary and not the James, brother of the Lord in Gal 1:19 who was evidently some other form of relative? I agree that he was a brother of Jesus.

Seems to me that you are just believing what you are told Lewis. I am using scripture and making a solid case for who these people are and you don't seem to be grasping it.

Blessings
 
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