Did Jesus Teach Everlasting Torment for Unbelievers?

[Solo]

Some do not believe in a literal place of everlasting punishment in an everlasting fire. Some individuals and groups teach that God would not torment anyone for eternity. What do you believe, why, and what belief group do you belong to, Baptist, Roman Catholic, SDA, JW, etc? Please use scripture to back your belief.

I was born again in a Southern Baptist Church, and I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church today. I was baptized as an infant and confirmed in a Lutheran Church, but I wasn't born again until I believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ when confronted with it at twenty-eight years old in a Southern Baptist Church. Thanks.

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:31-46

 

[Windozer]

Hi Solo,

I voted other because I do not see it as a subject that is worth dwelling on.

At its best it serves as a scare tactic, and people usually run from those kind of encounters.

Having said that I have seen some folk (some who claim to be Christian) who indeed are living in constant torment.

In short I find that I have quite enough on my plate living one day at a time, and getting the best out each day, to concern myself with the things God has in store for us once we leave this world.

He...not I...is in charge of what happens when I leave this world, And my place is to trust him and let him take care of the details.

I guess what I am saying is fear is not my motivator.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. [ Or adoption] And by him we cry, "Abba, [ Aramaic for Father] Father."

2 Thessalonians 3:16
[ Special Greetings ] Now may the Lord of peace himself give you peace at all times and in every way. The Lord be with all of you.

As far as what belief group do I belong to goes. (although I am connected to one particular main line church) My Christian Net work consists of members of various different denominations.

I have found that when you get to understand why they say the things they do, often they are saying the same thing only have arrived there via a some what different route. I have gained valuable insight from my experience with them.

By the way? Have I failed to read what group you associate with?

 

[Mace Sin]

If any aspect of Christianity is even true, I still wouldn't believe in Hell.

Torment according to the Bible is simply absence of God. Cold is absence of warmth. So on--so on.

So, let's assume that Heaven is true--and not a metaphor. Thus, the Bible would be dechipered as simply being away from God when you die. Much of the Bible is symbolic--even in the most radical and annoying Christian's eyes. So, why not Jesus' teachings of hell be metaphoric as well?

I could be wrong, but I can't think of any scripture that blatantly describes a literal description of Hell in the Bible.

 

[guibox]

I am a Seventh Day Adventist Christian and I believe that sin and sinners will ultimately be destroyed at the end. God will burn up the world and create a new heaven and earth and the wicked will be burnt up with it.

Notice the systematic way the bible explains itself in this matter, showing the terms used in proper exegetical order to paint a clear picture:

Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life"

Psalms 37:9,10 "For evildoers shall be cut off, but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while and the wicked shall not be yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place and it shall not be."

Malachi 4:1,3 "For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven and all the proud, yea and all that do wickedly shall be stubble and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...and ye shall tread down the wicked for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."

2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works therein shall be burned up."

Psalms 37:20 "But the wicked shall perish and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs. They shall consume. Into smoke shall they consume away."

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Revelation 20:9 "And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the city about and fire came down from heaven and consumed them."

Revelation 21:1 "And I saw new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away."

 

[Rick W]

I believe if one chooses a life without God then He'll not make you be with Him in eternity either. The spirit of rebellion against God in this life will still be a spirit of rebellion in the hereafter. Even Lucifer who was in the presence of God rebelled and still rebels to this day knowing full well God does exist.
Some will say, "Give me proof then!".
Proof is there IF one wants to admit it. If proof is requested from a heart that knows from the beginning it will reject all claims of proof anyway then the effort of providing proof is in vain right from the start. But that heart will have heard and will be without excuse.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

A rebellious heart will have it's desires fulfilled even in eternity. God won't make one be where one doesn't want to be in the first place... in His presence.

 

[Gary]

Hell by Norman L. Geisler, (1999). Baker encyclopedia of Christian apologetics.
Baker reference library (Page 308).
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ch ... y/hell.htm

Hell - The wicked will be banished into endless misery
(by JI Packer: Concise Theology - A guide to historic Christian beliefs)
http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/packer/hell.htm

.

 

[Rick W]

One of Satan's greatest lies is there is no Hell.

 

[SputnikBoy]

One of Satan's greatest lies is there is no Hell.

I don't know that too many are arguing the nonexistence of 'hell' as such. It's more the fact that hell is seen to be the metaphor used for the eternal destruction of the wicked. That God will or will not subject one to 'physical' torment is more the issue here.

 

[Mace Sin]

Will someone explain to me the morals of this just God who not only decides to cut the unbelievers from Him--but even goes the extra mile to condemn them to eternal suffering?

I smell a totalitarian government model brewing. If that is supposed to be right--then I wish to be wrong.

 

[Rick W]

Will someone explain to me the morals of this just God who not only decides to cut the unbelievers from Him--but even goes the extra mile to condemn them to eternal suffering?

I smell a totalitarian government model brewing. If that is supposed to be right--then I wish to be wrong.

That's the point. Those who believe God to be unjust revolt against His judgments thereby revealing the spirit of rebellion.

"decides to cut the unbelievers from Him"
It's the unbeliever that made the decision not to believe God. Not believe in God but believe Him. He sent His Son to die for you Mace Sin. If you reject Christ then you reject The Father also.

"I smell a totalitarian government model brewing."
That's the normal humanistic knee-jerk reaction. But the totalitarian government is within oneself and that's what must be denied when accepting the freedom Christ has to offer. Our sinful nature has a very strong grip on us, our pride and self worth hold us hostage and reacts strongly to any outside "threat". It's us that are totalitarian unto ourselves, not God.

 

[reznwerks]

lies

One of Satan's greatest lies is there is no Hell.

Is it a lie because you have been told this or is it a lie because you have seen it, know where it is , and know how it operates? I suspect you just assume it is real. Some questions you might ask yourself is WHEN did God create hell since when he was finished creating he said everything was very good. Adam and Eve were well on their way to living forever until they messed up. However God became disgusted with everything and then sent a flood which was supposed to fix things.( it didn't) So up to this time hell should not have existed. Now if you claim hell exists where is it and who is there tending the fires or being tended? If it has occupants then why the need for the second coming if some have already been judged? Lastly do you really think God (a loving God) would really send people to hell for the "unpardonable sin" of simply not believing what the rational mind tells him just ain't so?

 

[destiny]

That's the point. Those who believe God to be unjust revolt against His judgments thereby revealing the spirit of rebellion.

"decides to cut the unbelievers from Him"
It's the unbeliever that made the decision not to believe God. Not believe in God but believe Him. He sent His Son to die for you Mace Sin. If you reject Christ then you reject The Father also.

"I smell a totalitarian government model brewing."
That's the normal humanistic knee-jerk reaction. But the totalitarian government is within oneself and that's what must be denied when accepting the freedom Christ has to offer. Our sinful nature has a very strong grip on us, our pride and self worth hold us hostage and reacts strongly to any outside "threat". It's us that are totalitarian unto ourselves, not God.

You are soooo right PotLuck, Maybe someone needs to write a book called "God In The Hands Of Angry Sinners" :-?

 

[guibox]

Re: lies

Some questions you might ask yourself is WHEN did God create hell since when he was finished creating he said everything was very good. Adam and Eve were well on their way to living forever until they messed up. However God became disgusted with everything and then sent a flood which was supposed to fix things.( it didn't) So up to this time hell should not have existed. Now if you claim hell exists where is it and who is there tending the fires or being tended? If it has occupants then why the need for the second coming if some have already been judged?

Yes, very valid points that the traditionalist goes 'Uhhh...well..' because even they can't agree with themselves.

The problem with the fundamental belief in a hell burning now and where the wicked go when they die is that it promotes the false belief that the wicked have immortal souls, that somehow, sometime, God Himself deliberately created this place for the sole purpose of continual punishment, and ultimately that God is completely unfair because He says the fires were prepared for the devil and his angels. However, the devil and his angels are not in a fiery hell right now tending the furnaces.

Hence, God sends sinners to a place that reserved for Satan that Satan isn't even in yet.

This is the fallacies you come to when you deviate from the plain teaching of scripture for the Catholic midieval view of the afterlife.

When we see that 'hell' is the lake of fire created from the fire that comes down out of heaven at the end of time and then the sinners are cast in, we see that the bible makes more logical sense then the errors of human reason.

But too many would rather believe their lies and falsehoods instead of actually challenging a belief they've grown up with that reduces God to a blood-thirsty tyrant.

Truly sad that so many play into Satan's view of God and worse, portray that to the unbelieving world as a 'loving God'.

What a contradicting farce.

 

[Relic]

That's the point. Those who believe God to be unjust revolt against His judgments thereby revealing the spirit of rebellion.

"decides to cut the unbelievers from Him"
It's the unbeliever that made the decision not to believe God. Not believe in God but believe Him. He sent His Son to die for you Mace Sin. If you reject Christ then you reject The Father also.

"I smell a totalitarian government model brewing."
That's the normal humanistic knee-jerk reaction. But the totalitarian government is within oneself and that's what must be denied when accepting the freedom Christ has to offer. Our sinful nature has a very strong grip on us, our pride and self worth hold us hostage and reacts strongly to any outside "threat". It's us that are totalitarian unto ourselves, not God.

You are soooo right PotLuck, Maybe someone needs to write a book called "God In The Hands Of Angry Sinners" :-?

:smt044

.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Re: lies

Some questions you might ask yourself is WHEN did God create hell since when he was finished creating he said everything was very good. Adam and Eve were well on their way to living forever until they messed up. However God became disgusted with everything and then sent a flood which was supposed to fix things.( it didn't) So up to this time hell should not have existed. Now if you claim hell exists where is it and who is there tending the fires or being tended? If it has occupants then why the need for the second coming if some have already been judged?

Yes, very valid points that the traditionalist goes 'Uhhh...well..' because even they can't agree with themselves.

The problem with the fundamental belief in a hell burning now and where the wicked go when they die is that it promotes the false belief that the wicked have immortal souls, that somehow, sometime, God Himself deliberately created this place for the sole purpose of continual punishment, and ultimately that God is completely unfair because He says the fires were prepared for the devil and his angels. However, the devil and his angels are not in a fiery hell right now tending the furnaces.

Hence, God sends sinners to a place that reserved for Satan that Satan isn't even in yet.

This is the fallacies you come to when you deviate from the plain teaching of scripture for the Catholic midieval view of the afterlife.

When we see that 'hell' is the lake of fire created from the fire that comes down out of heaven at the end of time and then the sinners are cast in, we see that the bible makes more logical sense then the errors of human reason.

But too many would rather believe their lies and falsehoods instead of actually challenging a belief they've grown up with that reduces God to a blood-thirsty tyrant.

Truly sad that so many play into Satan's view of God and worse, portray that to the unbelieving world as a 'loving God'.

What a contradicting farce.

Agreed. But, no matter how many times one may present this scriptural logic on forums such as this, there will be those mainstream Christians who either cannot or will not see it. Human beings hate new ideas, they hate being wrong, they cling to traditions no matter how silly or vague some of those traditions may be. In this case they opt for a God who would be no less than a tyrant and that seems to be perfectly okay with them. Unbelievable.

 

[Soma-Sight]

No. Eternal Hellfire doctrine is based on misconceptions over Greek translations.

The Bible teaches Eternal Life in Heaven for those in Christ.

The Bible does not teach Eternal Life in Hell.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

This forum does not allow the discussion of Universal Reconciliation. When it decides, if ever, to rescinde that stance then I will get in on this subject.

Suffice it to say that my Lord and my God is not a maniac.

 

[SputnikBoy]

No. Eternal Hellfire doctrine is based on misconceptions over Greek translations.

The Bible teaches Eternal Life in Heaven for those in Christ.

The Bible does not teach Eternal Life in Hell.

Is the above message the concept of Universal Reconciliation? Sounds scriptural to me.

 

[wavy]

Micah 7:18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Oh, and welcome back Soma... Good to see you again.