Did Man Walk With Dinosaurs?

[Grazer]

Alex my point was they were taken seriously at that time.

So was the earth being at the centre of the universe and being flat. The crucial and most relevant point is that they are now no longer taken seriously.

 

[AlexBC]

Alex my point was they were taken seriously at that time.

Sorry. I thought you meant they were legit.

 

[reba]

Science and facts do not go hand in hand. Some of what was a fact of science thousands of years ago is not a fact today. This is even true in my lifetime...

 

[Tri Unity]

Can you provide some evidence to support that carbon-14 is present in dinosaur bones? Also, can you provide evidence that carbon dating (or more specifically carbon-14) is used to date fossils as I thought (and everything I've read supports this) they use other isotopes like uranium-238, uranium-235 and potassium-40.

Carbon 14 is used on organic matter, such as fossils, bones, coal or diamonds; whereas uranium dating is used on inorganic matter, such as igneous rocks, metamorphic rocks and some sedimentary rocks.

A few websites that show supportive evidence of my claim about Carbon 14 in dinosaur bones are found in the following links:

• http://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/paleontological/old-bone/

• http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=307

• http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2000/05/28/no-bones-about-it

• http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm

I hope this helps,


Tri

 

[Tri Unity]

Why then are there no dinosaur skins, bones, skulls being found amongst the ruins of these ancient civilisations and cultures?

The pyramids were built after the flood, and they contain post-flood specimens. The dinosaurs and mega fauna died in the flood. Many of their bones were covered in 100's of meters of ash from erupting volcanoes, which is generally the only way to get a fossil. (Volcanic ash also preserved Pompeii and the Minoan civilisation). For a bone to become fossilised it needs to be starved of moisture and oxygen; otherwise it will decompose. All existing fossils were formed during a cataclysmic event. Even the bones of the American Buffalo's from the great 18th century kills have turned to dust because they were exposed to the elements. Bones will normally decompose quickly unless there is some unusual event that buries the bones away from moisture and oxygen. Most of the mountains that we see today were caused by the volcanic action that took place during the flood. The mid-ocean ridge, for instance, is the largest range on earth. It is over 70,000 kms long. It was formed during the flood which caused continental "drift". The dinosaurs and mega fauna died in this explosive volcanic activity that accompanied the flood.

About 1956 while in grammar school the science text book had a picture of mans fossilized foot prints in the same 'path' as a dinosaurs.

These footprints have been authenticated.

http://www.dinosaurc14ages.com/footprints.htm

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html

 

[AlexBC]

Um...whoo boy.

Where to start.

There are actually several ways to get a fossil and some involve liquids.
I don't know where you got this idea that volcanic ash is required and is the only way to form a fossil.

I've read up about the Glen Rose and Paluxy footprints and they do not hold up to scrutiny.
And one of the sites you gave a link to shows that they HAVN'T been authenticated.

 

[Tri Unity]

Um...whoo boy.

Where to start.

There are actually several ways to get a fossil and some involve liquids. I don't know where you got this idea that volcanic ash is required and is the only way to form a fossil.

And the sites you linked to are funny. I've read up about the Glen Rose and Paluxy footprints and they do not hold up to scrutiny.

That is your opinion. We all belong to faiths. I belong to the Christian faith, and you belong to the evolution faith. Both sides can at times be quite blind to facts and data. Both sides presume to know the truth. This is the reality. You will never accept evidence that I accept; and I will not believe much of the evidence that you accept. We both belong to a faith that we religously uphold. I am not in denial of my faith; you are.

Question... how does a bone not decompose when exposed to moisture and oxidisation for millions of years? Why do bones decompose rapidly that have been recently buried, whereas bones that are "millions of years old" do not decompse?

 

[AlexBC]

That is your opinion. We all belong to faiths. I belong to the Christian faith, and you belong to the evolution faith. Both sides can at times be quite blind to facts and data. Both sides presume to know the truth. This is the reality. You will never accept evidence that I accept; and I will not believe much of the evidence that you accept. We both belong to a faith that we religously uphold. I am not in denial of my faith; you are.

Question... how does a bone not decompose when exposed to moisture and oxidisation for millions of years? Why do bones decompose rapidly that have been recently buried, whereas bones that are "millions of years old" do not decompse?

Sigh. Evolution is not a faith. I don't let evolution colour my worldview. And it's not just my opinion. It's the opinion of the scientific community. And I don't take their findings on faith. I take it on trust.

And you really don't understand what a fossil is. The wikipedia entry on fossil formation and the various methods fossilization/preservation takes place is a pretty good, if brief, guide to the various processes. Check it out.

 

[Tri Unity]

Sigh. Evolution is not a faith. I don't let evolution colour my worldview.

And you really don't understand what a fossil is. The wikipedia entry on fossil formation and the various methods fossilization/preservation takes place is a pretty good, if brief, guide to the various processes. Check it out.

Evolution is a faith - you need more faith for evolution than you do for creation. You have just been fooled. You don't understand fossilisation either. Answer my questions if you do:

• how does a bone not decompose when exposed to moisture and oxidisation for millions of years?
• Why do bones decompose rapidly that have been recently buried, whereas bones that are "millions of years old" do not decompose?

Give the sighs a rest.

 

[AlexBC]

Evolution is a faith - you need more faith for evolution than you do for creation. You have just been fooled. You don't understand fossilisation either. Answer my questions if you do:

• how does a bone not decompose when exposed to moisture and oxidisation for millions of years?
• Why do bones decompose rapidly that have been recently buried, whereas bones that are "millions of years old" do not decompose?

Give the sighs a rest.

How lazy.

Ok. To address your first question. Have you heard of bog bodies? Humans and animals falling or intentionally thrown into pete bogs are preserved remarkably. We can even see the expressions on their face and fine details like clothing are preserved. Theres water but but it's very cold. Add to this the anaerobic conditions and acidic nature of the pete and it preserves extremely well over the millenia.

 

[Tri Unity]

The following material is taken from: http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm

Dinosaur Blood and "Ancient"DNA:

Before the existence of supposedly"ancient" organic material had been well publicized, it was predicted that "no DNA would remain intact much beyond 10,000 years." This prediction was based upon the observed breakdown of DNA.

Not long after this prediction was made, very old DNA started turning up. For example, at the Clarkia Fossil Beds, in Idaho, a green magnolia leaf was discovered in strata that was said to be 17 million years old. Because it was so fresh-looking and even pliable, scientists decided to see if any DNA was present. And to their surprise they discovered that there was: and that it matched the DNA of modern magnolia trees.

Since then, DNA claims have been made for supposedly older material such as dinosaur bones, and insects in amber. It was said that the reason the magnolia leaf was preserved was because it was buried in clay; however, the 17 million year date is still doubtful. Likewise, scientists say that DNA from the insects was preserved because they were entombed in amber.

However, a serious problem arises when we come to the dinosaur bones; for these were not entombed in amber or clay, but in sandstone. And because sandstone and bone are both porous, this means that ground and rainwater would be able to seep into the rocks, and thus into the bones as well. The fact that the outer part of one of these bones was mineralized gives strong evidence that water -- and thus oxygen -- had access to the bones. The fact that the inside of the bones are not mineralized is an indication that they are young. The fact that the partially mineralized bone had (what looked like) redblood cells in it is a strong indication that it is young: probably less than 10,000 years old.

Note that the outer part of the bone was calcified and had access to moisture and oxygen. The bones were still fossilised though; so the sedimentary rock, consisting of sand and ash and other debris, resisted moisture and oxygen until the bones were fossilised. The bones were buried in deep layers of sand and debri that were dumped instantaneously onto the bones, preventing moisture to be admitted (otherwise they would have completely decayed). The question is the same. How did millions of tons of sand come to be dumped onto the bones at one time, preventing moisture to infiltrate and decay the bones? Like the volcanic ash, this was a cataclysmic event.

 

[Tri Unity]

God. How lazy.

Ok. To address your first question. Have you heard of bog bodies? Humans and animals falling or intentionally thrown into pete bogs are preserved remarkably. We can even see the expressions on their face and fine details like clothing are preserved. Theres water but but it's very cold. Add to this the anaerobic conditions and acidic nature of the pete and it preserves extremely well over the millenia.

These "bog bodies" are not millions of years old; unless you are suggesting mankind was here millions of years ago. The bog bodies were 3000 years old tops, and they were not fossilised, they were mummified. Excellent research!!!

 

[AlexBC]

The following material is taken from: http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm



Note that the outer part of the bone was calcified and had access to moisture and oxygen. The bones were still fossilised though; so the sedimentary rock, consisting of sand and ash and other debris, resisted moisture and oxygen until the bones were fossilised. The bones were buried in deep layers of sand and debri that were dumped instantaneously onto the bones, preventing moisture to be admitted (otherwise they would have completely decayed). The question is the same. How did millions of tons of sand come to be dumped onto the bones at one time, preventing moisture to infiltrate and decay the bones? Like the volcanic ash, this was a cataclysmic event.

There are no unfossilized dinosaur bones.

 

[Tri Unity]

There are no unfossilized dinosaur bones.

Really?

...laboratory tests have confirmed the presence of collagen and Heme and other organic protein molecules in the tyrannosaurus from Montana... (http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev...oung_earth.htmhttp://www.earthage.org/youngearthev...oung_earth.htmhttp://www.earthage.org/youngearthev...oung_earth.htm )http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev...oung_earth.htm) )http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev...oung_earth.htm) )

The sources are provided in full on the website. You just have not researched the topic as much as you make out. That is what blind faith does to a person... Christians can be guilty of this too - but evolutionists are just as guilty.

 

[AlexBC]

These "bog bodies" are not millions of years old; unless you are suggesting mankind was here millions of years ago. The bog bodies were 3000 years old tops, and they were not fossilised, they were mummified. Excellent research!!!

It was just an example off the top of my head in which moisture being present can lead to preservation of bone.

I only gave it because there are no unfossilized dinosaur bones to give an example of.

 

[Tri Unity]

It was just an example off the top of my head in which moisture being present can lead to preservation of bone.

I only gave it because there are no unfossilized dinosaur bones to give an example of.

We both seek evidence to support our faith. I'm not trying to change your faith. You are welcome to it. I hope it gives you much happiness and security.

 

[AlexBC]

Really?



The sources are provided in full on the website. You just have not researched the topic as much as you make out. That is what blind faith does to a person... Christians can be guilty of this too - but evolutionists are just as guilty.

I am aware of the discovery and there is still no consensus on whether it is a legitimate find or not. Some studies support it and some contradict it.

 

[Tri Unity]

I am aware of the discovery and there is still no consensus on whether it is a legitimate find or not. Some studies support it and some contradict it.

This is the same reasoning that is used to deny all creation evidence. In the end a person believes, not by evidence, but by faith.

 

[AlexBC]

This is the same reasoning that is used to deny all creation evidence. In the end a person believes, not by evidence, but by faith.

Unless you're a scientist.

Anyway. Why aren't we finding other examples of preserved dino tissue if the bones are as young as you believe? And not just one example that is contested by many reputable molecular biologists etc?

 

[Tri Unity]

Unless you're a scientist.

Anyway. Why aren't we finding other examples of preserved dino tissue if the bones are as young as you believe? And not just one example that is contested by many reputable molecular biologists etc?

Scientists present a hypothesis (a belief), and they seek evidence that will prove or disprove that belief before it becomes elevated to a theory. The evidence a scientist will accept does not mean that it is beyond question. Scientists disagree among themselves on almost every hypothesis and theory. The history of quantum mechanics and particle physics is a history of wars among scientists who strongly opposed each other.

There have been other examples found of soft tissue preserved in "ancient fossils":

http://naturalselection.0catch.com/Files/fossilizeddna.html

Hope this helps

Tri