Did the Lord Jesus say they would see his return ?
- Thread starter johnny botwright
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gazelle post your data's link and the ones that are damaging arent increase in amount. its those that do anything. 7 plus is what does it. i have been in 4.5 and a 6 not much at all and the later was in afghanistan while in a clay/brick building that wouldnt last in the stronger zones.
i will do a thread on hal lindsay and why one should check him oft and also would you listen your pastor if he divorced and still preached and was wrong as lindseay was? trust has to be restored slowly, not just given. did hal step down? was he even asked.
its one thing to go through a divorce and you not be a fault but i do feel that even there one should back away from the pulpit and fix the marriage and also if not then pray and seek god and the church to be restored.
i will do a thread on hal lindsay and why one should check him oft and also would you listen your pastor if he divorced and still preached and was wrong as lindseay was? trust has to be restored slowly, not just given. did hal step down? was he even asked.
its one thing to go through a divorce and you not be a fault but i do feel that even there one should back away from the pulpit and fix the marriage and also if not then pray and seek god and the church to be restored.
Oy vay! We have the technology to monitor these events like in no other time in history. I want to see charts dating back 2,000 years. :yes Then and only then will I make a decision.
Plus, statistics and charts can be manipulated for various reasons, political being one reason. Just like the myth of global warming. Tell that one to the millions of people blanketed in snow in the Northeast, in October! :o
Climate change, yes. Global warming? Hardly!
Next... Israel isn't a nation. It's a political state that nowhere resembles the Nation of Israel of old. Islam is still in control of Jerusalem, in less I've missed something and the Dome of the Rock, which has been there for hundreds of years, is no longer there.
We have people starving, homeless and on the brink of cultural and religious genocide and suffering from these natural disasters they encounter and Christians are obsessing over alleged signs and political events.
Last night, I caught a Steve Miller concert on TV. He play Fly like an Eagle and the words have been running through my head ever since:
We have the solution. Why are we obsessing over anything else. Why aren't our eyes on the Lord?
Plus, statistics and charts can be manipulated for various reasons, political being one reason. Just like the myth of global warming. Tell that one to the millions of people blanketed in snow in the Northeast, in October! :o
Climate change, yes. Global warming? Hardly!
Next... Israel isn't a nation. It's a political state that nowhere resembles the Nation of Israel of old. Islam is still in control of Jerusalem, in less I've missed something and the Dome of the Rock, which has been there for hundreds of years, is no longer there.
We have people starving, homeless and on the brink of cultural and religious genocide and suffering from these natural disasters they encounter and Christians are obsessing over alleged signs and political events.
Last night, I caught a Steve Miller concert on TV. He play Fly like an Eagle and the words have been running through my head ever since:
We have the solution. Why are we obsessing over anything else. Why aren't our eyes on the Lord?
{8} First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)
{28} One of them named Agabus stood up and began to indicate by the Spirit that there would certainly be a great famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius. Acts 11:28 (NASB)
{18} But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." Romans 10:18 (NASB)
...the gospel {6} which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)
{2} in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:2 (NASB)
By the time 70 AD rolled around, the gospel had been preached throughout the whole Greco-Roman world (which is what the word "oikumene" meant to those writing at that time), and you had at least one well-documented world-wide famine during the reign of Claudius Caesar.
If you read the book of Acts, it chronicles one earthquake powerful enough to open the doors of the prisone Peter was in and remove his shackles. And if there was one, there were certainly more: Israel is on a fault line over which the Jordan River flows, much like California's San Andreas fault.
Every apostle was a Jew. When Peter, Paul, James and John are talking about living in the "last days" and the "end times", you need to understand what that meant from their perspective, not ours.
{38} "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, {39} and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. {40} "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. {41} "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24:38-41 (NASB)
See the highlighted text in verse 39 above? It defines who the "taken" are and what happened to them at the end of the passage.
"They" are those who did not believe Noah. "They" were those who did not board the Ark. "They" were the ones eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the flood came and took them all away.
Now, when you see the "taken" ones in verses 40 and 41, it's clear - based on the context of this passage - that the taken Jesus is talking about are the ones that are going to be killed in a terrible calamity; a "great tribulation."
And what does He next tell His disciples?
{42} "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. Matthew 24:42 (NASB)
Christ Himself associates His coming with the great calamity that will kill many, and He warns His disciples - the future apostles - to be on the alert so they are not killed in this calamity themselves.
That calamity (or tribulation) was the destruction of Jerusalem and it happened in 70 AD, and Christ's "coming in the clouds" which He told His disciples (Matthew 10, Matthew 16) and the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26) was His coming in judgment, just as God did against Egypt in Isaiah 19. Here are those salient verses:
{23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)
{28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)
{64} Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)
{1} The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. Isaiah 19:1 (NASB)
Hope this helps.
See the highlighted text in verse 39 above? It defines who the "taken" are and what happened to them at the end of the passage.
"They" are those who did not believe Noah. "They" were those who did not board the Ark. "They" were the ones eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the flood came and took them all away.
Now, when you see the "taken" ones in verses 40 and 41, it's clear - based on the context of this passage - that the taken Jesus is talking about are the ones that are going to be killed in a terrible calamity; a "great tribulation."
And what does He next tell His disciples?
{42} "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. Matthew 24:42 (NASB)
Christ Himself associates His coming with the great calamity that will kill many, and He warns His disciples - the future apostles - to be on the alert so they are not killed in this calamity themselves.
That calamity (or tribulation) was the destruction of Jerusalem and it happened in 70 AD, and Christ's "coming in the clouds" which He told His disciples (Matthew 10, Matthew 16) and the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26) was His coming in judgment, just as God did against Egypt in Isaiah 19. Here are those salient verses:
{23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)
{28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)
{64} Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)
{1} The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. Isaiah 19:1 (NASB)
Hope this helps.
His coming was to take the kingdom of God away from apostate Israel and usher in the church age. The "end of the age" was the end of the covenant of Moses and the Temple as God's dwelling place.
Compare these verses:
{1} Then Solomon said, "The LORD has said that He would dwell in the thick cloud. {2} "I have built You a lofty house [Solomon's Temple], And a place for Your dwelling forever." 2 Chronicles 6:1-2 (NASB)
{11} Sing praises to the LORD, who dwells in Zion; Declare among the peoples His deeds. Psalm 9:11 (NASB)
{2} His tabernacle is in Salem; His dwelling place also is in Zion. Psalm 76:2 (NASB)
{13} For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation. Psalm 132:13 (NASB)
{21} Blessed be the LORD from Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem. Praise the LORD! Psalm 135:21 (NASB)
With this passage from Ephesians:
{19} So then you [Gentiles] are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints [Holy Jews], and are of God's household, {20} having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, {21} in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, {22} in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22 (NASB)
God no longer lives in the Temple of Jerusalem. He lives in us individually and His church corporately. That's "the end" the apostles were looking forward to: the end of the Law of Moses, the end of the kingdom of God ruled by a corrupt, apostate priesthood, and the end of the Temple it stood for.
freeway
Member
One doesn't need to live in an earthquake zone to be savvy of worldwide events. ;) These charts are based on 2010. For 2011 we have an still more increases.
Number of earthquakes yearly (M>5.5)
Maximum earthquake magnitude yearly (M)
H
Hitch
Guest
freeway
Member
Matthew 24
Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Hitch what happens when a woman is giving birth, answer the labor pains comes faster and stronger.. wittnessed my two children being born..
H
Hitch
Guest
if is that obvious prove me and hitch wrong with usgs data! theres no sign of increase since last check.
for something to increase it must have a reference point to start from and and we do have that since we can look to the time frame and see and take note of the quakes in the roman empire till now . and its remained about 7 on the richter scale on average.
for something to increase it must have a reference point to start from and and we do have that since we can look to the time frame and see and take note of the quakes in the roman empire till now . and its remained about 7 on the richter scale on average.
L
Lehigh3
Guest
sometimes ignorance is not bliss!
Yeah, but did they look like the nation of Israel that would be born in "a day" into a New Covenant? :p
Isaiah 66:6-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the LORD,
Who fully repays His enemies!
7 “ Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?†says the LORD.
“ Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?†says your God.
10 “ Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
11 That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.â€
12 For thus says the LORD:
“ Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.
Then you shall feed;
On her sides shall you be carried,
And be dandled on her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts,
So I will comfort you;
And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.â€
The Jerusalem that is above (the New Jerusalem) And it "came" in Christ's (the Messiah's) generation.
http://novisio.com/htmlearthqt.htm
Sorry, I thought everyone knew you could find the location of an inserted item by right clicking on it and selecting to view the data of the item. ;)
Here's the USGS one:
http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm
Sorry, I thought everyone knew you could find the location of an inserted item by right clicking on it and selecting to view the data of the item. ;)
Here's the USGS one:
http://www.thehorizonproject.com/earthquakes.cfm
i didnt that its their inpreteration with the bias of the thier view that causes the problem
its no different than todays global warming thing.they dont like to tell you that in the past things were warmer. we cant eliminate that if the earth has phases of intesitny with quakes then subsides and we dont have that trend with volcanos as well.
http://www.weatherexplained.com/Vol-1/Volcanic-Activity.html
a baseline over a good time period must be established. so that we can really know if not or if said increase is just that a sudden increase. therefore imho we dont have the datum and data from the past to check with the present. so we cant say this isnt natural or not.
freeway
Member
Not sure where you are going with this, as you have a whole lot of events cramed into one event? Please expound... so as i can give my 2cents worth.sometimes ignorance is not bliss!
Yeah, but did they look like the nation of Israel that would be born in "a day" into a New Covenant? :p
Isaiah 66:6-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
6 The sound of noise from the city!
A voice from the temple!
The voice of the LORD,
Who fully repays His enemies!
7 “ Before she was in labor, she gave birth;
Before her pain came,
She delivered a male child.
8 Who has heard such a thing?
Who has seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
Or shall a nation be born at once?
For as soon as Zion was in labor,
She gave birth to her children.
9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the LORD.
“ Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God.
10 “ Rejoice with Jerusalem,
And be glad with her, all you who love her;
Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;
11 That you may feed and be satisfied
With the consolation of her bosom,
That you may drink deeply and be delighted
With the abundance of her glory.”
12 For thus says the LORD:
“ Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river,
And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream.
Then you shall feed;
On her sides shall you be carried,
And be dandled on her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforts,
So I will comfort you;
And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”
The Jerusalem that is above (the New Jerusalem) And it "came" in Christ's (the Messiah's) generation.
the ignore list... like in grade school.... he started it .....
pund intended..
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Hi johnny botwright;
Your direct question is:
Yes Jesus did say THEY would see the return and of you read closely it can be noticed Jesus said YOU will see the other 'things'. The reason being is that those beoing spoken to by Jesus, John, Andrew, Peter and James would be the YOU who saw the war and heard of the rumors of war, those men would see, or know of, the abomination appear in the Holy Place and those men would see:
20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
So Jesus tells you, (John, Andrew, peter, James) what YOU will see and Jesus says THEY will see:
Luke 21
There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
So exactly, Jesus said THEY would see the return. Those who suffered the wrath of God, not the YOU who were the Christians. John, Andrew, James and Peter.
Andrew, James, and Peter saw Jesus at the resurrection of the dead, John saw Jesus in His vision but it was THEY who saw Jesus coming immediately after the great tribulation or wrath of God.
noble
Your direct question is:
Yes Jesus did say THEY would see the return and of you read closely it can be noticed Jesus said YOU will see the other 'things'. The reason being is that those beoing spoken to by Jesus, John, Andrew, Peter and James would be the YOU who saw the war and heard of the rumors of war, those men would see, or know of, the abomination appear in the Holy Place and those men would see:
20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
So Jesus tells you, (John, Andrew, peter, James) what YOU will see and Jesus says THEY will see:
Luke 21
There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
So exactly, Jesus said THEY would see the return. Those who suffered the wrath of God, not the YOU who were the Christians. John, Andrew, James and Peter.
Andrew, James, and Peter saw Jesus at the resurrection of the dead, John saw Jesus in His vision but it was THEY who saw Jesus coming immediately after the great tribulation or wrath of God.
noble