Different Bibles

[Mysteryman]

Down side to a lot of bible translations is that it reduces God to a footnote. Some remove his name entirely. Most (like the KJV) retain his name at Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18; Isaiah 12:2; and Isaiah 26:4... although the "new KJV" deletes these as well.

Young's Literal Translation, the Darby translation, ASV, Bible in living english, NWT, BBE, and Green's literal translations are the only ones I know of that use God's name properly in the nearly 7000 scriptures it appears.

(Jeremiah 16:21) “Therefore here I am causing them to know; at this one time I shall cause them to know my hand and my mightiness, and they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.â€

Hi Chris:

"Je" or "Ja" or "Jah" or "Yah" is not a name -- It is a title ! All of these mean, the title - God !

Here is also something you should find interesting. The names given by God in the OT were for titles, not just names. In fact, the word "name" in Jeremiah 16:21 is the Hebrew word - "shem" , which means -- "renown".

Noah begat "Shem" = renown

The end of Jeremiah 16:21 states- "they shall know my "renown" (distinction - fame). Names in the OT had distinct purposes and meanings. God changed Jacob to Israel = to rule with God.

What the end of Jeremiah 16:21 is saying, is that they shall know my distinction, my renown fame, the Lord - "God" < Title removed from the KJV ! The name was not removed from the KJV, the title was removed from the KJV.

 

[Mohrb]

MM.... I have to disagree. If God says "my name is ____" ... I kinda believe him. Ya know?

... btw, I'm aware that names (especially hebrew names) tended to have quite a bit of meaning... however, they're still names. For example, Samuel comes from the words "shem" and "El" his name literally means "the name of God." ... I'm not sure where you're getting that "shem" means "renown" rather than "name" or that "Jah" is a title rather than a name. Any references? All sources and dictionaries I've seen translate "shem" as "name."

 

[Mysteryman]

MM.... I have to disagree. If God says "my name is ____" ... I kinda believe him. Ya know?

... btw, I'm aware that names (especially hebrew names) tended to have quite a bit of meaning... however, they're still names. For example, Samuel comes from the words "shem" and "El" his name literally means "the name of God." ... I'm not sure where you're getting that "shem" means "renown" rather than "name" or that "Jah" is a title rather than a name. Any references? All sources and dictionaries I've seen translate "shem" as "name."

Hi Chris:

The word "name" in this verse is the Hebrew word "shem" , which means - "renown". This Hebrew word was translated "name". It could have been just translated "renown" instead of the word "name". The translators made a decision to translate this Hebrew word - "name". Also Chris, notice that the word "is" is in italics, which means that it was added by the translators. Cross it out, get rid of it.

God is not saying that they shall know me by my name. He is saying that they shall know that my renown/ distinction. The renown or distinction of the Lord God is given within the context here. The answer is right in the verse - "know mine hand and my might".

In order to come away with your rendition, you would have to change the two words "that my" to read "by my". But the translation is correct using the words - "that my".

Now here is what you did in your above statement to me. You said - "my name is". Notice how you used the word "is" in your comment here ? Which shows you are trying to make a reference to the word "is" that is used in the verse. And there is no such word, except the one the translators added.

Lets look at Jeremiah 11:9 and 10, here you will notice that the Lord is talking about a conspiracy and that the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem have turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, and have refused to hear his words, and they went after other gods and to serve them and both have broken the covenant which the Lord God made with their fathers.

Now, start reading from the next verse, verse 11 and notice what God is saying here, and what he is going to do. Then read down to verse 16. The Hebrew word "shem", is also translated "name" in this verse. Verse 16 goes on to say that thy "distinction" (name) "shem" , a green olive tree, fair, and goodly fruit : with the noise of a great trumpet he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken ". This is a curse that God is about to bring upon them - verses 3 - 6.

Chapter 12 and in verse one, is Jeremiah pleading with the Lord. After reading chapter 11 and verses 18 thru verse 23 you might see why he pleaded with the Lord.

Now, I have shown you this for the reason of showing you the emphasis on the translated word - "name".

It means "distinction" ! That which is superior. Israel was suppose to be distinct above the world and those who worshipped other gods. They were suppose to worship the one true God, the Lord God. Not by his name, but in His distinction , which is His superiority above all other gods. Remember, the name Israel means to -- "rule with God". The name God gave Jacob, and the nation.

Eventually, we read of God giving Israel a writ of divorcement.

If you keep reading from chapter 12, and remember the pleading of Jeremiah, then come to chapter 13 and verses 9 & 10. Read everything from verse one of chapter 12, thru chapter 13:10.

Now read verse 11 because the word "name" shows up again in this verse. But this time Chris, read this verse by using the word "distinction" or "supereority" in place of this word "name", and notice how much more understanding this verse is expressing.

Does this help ?

 

[PeterAV]

The NKJV is NOT true to the originals.
#1 They cheated and claimed they were simply updating the AV. But they introduced the same changes in the text as the other corrupted versions.
In fact, they were finned a few hundred thousand dollars for their shinanigans.
The AV used all the right texts for their translation.
This is why it has stood the test of time.
The NKJV however did a slight of hand and the cover shows where this slight of hand came from.
The NKJV is opposed to the original languages in a few spots.
Also they have introduced opposites on several verses.

The most literal and accurate compared to what?
If you mean that it is the most accurate in translating from tainted materials, then yes, you would be correct.
But alas, they use tainted materials so even if literal; it would be wrong in many a spot.
*******
John 1:18 comes to mind off the top of my head.
OUCH!
And there are plenty of others.
An horrid version claiming to be a Holy Bible.

First off you are way off on this Roman thingy.
Unless by "controlled" you mean, they tried all they could to eradicate it from the face of the Earth.
They detested this version of the AV.
They have the Jesuit Vulgate.
The AV text was around before the Corrupted Catholics came around.
So, by your own confession, you have no Bible.
Amazing. So you have no clue as to who God really is, for your own standard is not the Scriptures.
Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Your faith is faith in your own intellect. Not too wise in that choice.

What a fibber.
The AV is read by millions.
The NASB and the NIV are both excellent if you trust in error, heretical teachings, and plain impurities in the word of God.
Here is yet another short list of proof that the NIV and the NASB are not good at all.

Hawkins....
Where is the pure word of God?
Thy word is very pure, therefore thy servant loveth it.
You are being like EVE.
Choosing and picking what suits you.
Nope. You never dis God's word over the shoulder for your own temporal finite reasons.
Instead, you should allow the word of God to critique you, not the other way around, as you are showing here.
At least you do admit that there are differences. But many of the differences are not simply because of variation in saying things,[even though this happens] but the modern versions do not use the same correct texts for translating. They have use garbage for their Bibles. Known heretics! Yet the scholars hide the fact with smooth words.
Satan is heavily involved in Bible translation.
The plan from the 1800's is working very well in corrupting the Churches.

What a straw man we have here! Not worth the two cents; thanks anyway.
As if a word is not allowed to have more than one meaning.
Just because you read bibles that rip out "study".
Think about it.
Too lazy to study his bible,[AV] he simply trashes it because of what he considers an error,and then runs head long for a slop rag [NIV] that is known for many, many provable errors.
Who killed Goliath anyway? look it up and get shocked.

hold on a minute (dusts off his hands)

Peter, how long did you plan on being an active member of the boards, running around calling out everyone as a heretic for not reading your translation? You've spent half of your first posts berating others.

easy, slugger... breathe in, breathe out...breathe in, breathe out...

Now, please review the "Terms of Service", and focus in on points 5 & 6:

5 - Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities.

6 - No Bashing of other members. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

Are you going to have a problem with these?

Mike

I would rather obey the word and call things as they are. Thanx.
but there is lots of ignorance out there.

 

[PeterAV]

Mike stated

kiwimac wrote:The KJV is an out of date translation. Use the NASB or the NIV, both are excellent.


Agreed. While the KJV is just as much a "translation" as the others, it's puzzling to me the way it's treated like an original manuscript. The meaning of words and phrases have different connotations than they once did. Look at Luke 18:16 for one example.

*******
What gives you authority to stand in judgment against the Pure Holy Bible?

 

[jasoncran]

Mike stated

kiwimac wrote:The KJV is an out of date translation. Use the NASB or the NIV, both are excellent.


Agreed. While the KJV is just as much a "translation" as the others, it's puzzling to me the way it's treated like an original manuscript. The meaning of words and phrases have different connotations than they once did. Look at Luke 18:16 for one example.

*******
What gives you authority to stand in judgment against the Pure Holy Bible?

beacause that bible was written oh 1.5 thousand yrs after the death of the lord.

first err by the kjv, baptism was never translated into english as water immersion, but rather transliterated a minor err indeed

then theres the johannine comma in john 1;1

the various small s for the Holy Spirit.

did the early writers all speak kings english circa 1768?

 

[Free]

Mike stated

kiwimac wrote:The KJV is an out of date translation. Use the NASB or the NIV, both are excellent.


Agreed. While the KJV is just as much a "translation" as the others, it's puzzling to me the way it's treated like an original manuscript. The meaning of words and phrases have different connotations than they once did. Look at Luke 18:16 for one example.

*******
What gives you authority to stand in judgment against the Pure Holy Bible?

What gives you authority to stand in judgment against all other translations as though they stand against "the Pure Holy Bible?"

 

[Mohrb]

...

Does this help ?

No. You used a lot of words, but never really gave an explanation. You agree that "shem" can also mean name, yes? Contextually, you see that here, God is talking to Jeremiah about how too many people have begun serving other gods, and not serving the one who actually delivered them from egypt (among other things). Do you see how contextually it makes sense that God is telling Jeremiah that we are to worship him alone, by his name... not any other god by any other name?

So, you insist on translating it as "renown" .... Do you know of any bible translations that use the word "renown" here, instead of "name?" Is not one's "name" one's "renown?" What specifically are you insinuating to be the difference between God's name and his "renown" (how he is known).

If you're getting caught up on the word "shem" Look at the context around the word. Instead of "they shall know that my name is Jehovah" ... it could easily be stated "They shall know me as Jehovah"

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Therefore behold, I am going to make them know-- This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is the LORD."
King James Bible
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

American King James Version
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

American Standard Version
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore, behold I will this once cause them to know, I will shew them my hand and my power: and they shall know that my name is the Lord.

Darby Bible Translation
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

English Revised Version
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is JEHOVAH.

World English Bible
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Yahweh.

Young's Literal Translation
Therefore, lo, I am causing them to know at this time, I cause them to know My hand and My might, And they have known that My name is Jehovah!

 

[Mysteryman]

...

Does this help ?

No. You used a lot of words, but never really gave an explanation. You agree that "shem" can also mean name, yes? Contextually, you see that here, God is talking to Jeremiah about how too many people have begun serving other gods, and not serving the one who actually delivered them from egypt (among other things). Do you see how contextually it makes sense that God is telling Jeremiah that we are to worship him alone, by his name... not any other god by any other name?

So, you insist on translating it as "renown" .... Do you know of any bible translations that use the word "renown" here, instead of "name?" Is not one's "name" one's "renown?" What specifically are you insinuating to be the difference between God's name and his "renown" (how he is known).

If you're getting caught up on the word "shem" Look at the context around the word. Instead of "they shall know that my name is Jehovah" ... it could easily be stated "They shall know me as Jehovah"

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Therefore behold, I am going to make them know-- This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is the LORD."
King James Bible
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

American King James Version
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.

American Standard Version
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Therefore, behold I will this once cause them to know, I will shew them my hand and my power: and they shall know that my name is the Lord.

Darby Bible Translation
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

English Revised Version
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Jehovah.

Webster's Bible Translation
Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is JEHOVAH.

World English Bible
Therefore, behold, I will cause them to know, this once will I cause them to know my hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is Yahweh.

Young's Literal Translation
Therefore, lo, I am causing them to know at this time, I cause them to know My hand and My might, And they have known that My name is Jehovah!

Hi Chris

Thanks for your reply.

But I continue to see that you want to use the word "IS" within your comments. You seem to be more concerned with the name instead of the meaning behind the words.

You continue to forget that God magnified his Word above his name.

The reason that the KJV is the most reliable, is because they inform us that this word "IS" is in italics. They added it. Now you use this word as if it is the infallible Word of God, and it is not !

Israel was suppose to be an example unto the world, that the one true God was more powerful than any of the other gods that they were worshipping. The distinction is not based just upon his name, and calling him by his name.

When we say -- "The God of Abraham" , we acknowledge what God did by way of Abraham, and the promises that God brought forth by way of Abraham. If it was only about his name, then the knowledge and understanding of God would be lost and totally misunderstood. We also realize how many nations came forth from Abraham, as this was a promise of God as well.

The word "name" was translated from the Hebrew word "shem" which means "renown" or "distinction" or "superiority". When one does not look at the distinction or superiority of God, one does not see the ability or grace of God in the light that we should recognize him. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, and the Lord told him to build an ark, because God was going to cause the world to flood and everything with life in it would die. You could say the name Jehovah 100 times, but if you do not build the ark as commanded by the Lord God, you will die.

In the NT we deal again with the "dunamis" - Power/ability of God.

Jesus said, ask anything of my Father, in my name, and my Father shall give it to you. We are dealing with the wisdom and understanding of God here.

I Corinth. 1:24 - "But unto them which are called, both Jew and Greeks, Christ, the power of God, and the wisdom of God"

The reason I brought this verse into the conversation, is because the same was true in the book of Jeremiah which we just discussed. "The power of God", which is the "distinction" or "superiority" of God, which is dealing with His Power. You can see, that the translated word "name" in the OT does not convey the full meaning behind this translated word from the Hebrew word "shem"....

Now lets look at Jeremiah 16:21 once again

Verse 21 --- "Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know (twice established) mine hand and might ; and they shall know that my "superiority" , The Lord God"

 

[Mysteryman]

MM.... I have to disagree. If God says "my name is ____" ... I kinda believe him. Ya know?

... btw, I'm aware that names (especially hebrew names) tended to have quite a bit of meaning... however, they're still names. For example, Samuel comes from the words "shem" and "El" his name literally means "the name of God." ... I'm not sure where you're getting that "shem" means "renown" rather than "name" or that "Jah" is a title rather than a name. Any references? All sources and dictionaries I've seen translate "shem" as "name."

Hi Chris

"shem" - "el" does not mean the name of God ! It means - "superiority" - "power" or - superior power

"el" in the Hebrew means - "power" or "might" or "strength" , it is translated "power" in Gen. 31:29.

"el" is also translated -- "God" when it pertains to his might

The name "Samuel" means -- "heard of God" = heard of the mighty one

The word/name - "Samson" means - "strong"

The Hebrew word "shem" means "renown" or "distinction" or "superiority"

The name of the first man was named "Adam"

"adam" means "red" -- Look up the word "red" and you will find that it comes from the Hebrew word - "adam"

The same with the Hebrew word "shem". It is the name of one of the sons of Naoh - Shem, which means renown, or distinction, or superior. Genesis 9:26 - "And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem". From the lineage of Shem, came Abram (Abraham).

 

[Mohrb]

But I continue to see that you want to use the word "IS" within your comments. You seem to be more concerned with the name instead of the meaning behind the words.

You've pointed out your opinion on individual words, but the act of translation is taking a complete thought in one language, and phrasing that complete thought in another language. You stated that you objected to the word "name" ... and insisted that it must be "renown" instead. You also stated that "is" is italic in the KJV, therefore it should be ignored. So, what do you believe is the proper translation of the entire phrase?

"And they shall know that my renown Jehovah?" ... you're entitled to that opinion, but it disagrees with ALL the translations I've seen.

Take a look at this interlinear:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInte ... /jer16.pdf

?????? ???????? ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???????? ?

... the last three words literally translate over (and they shall know) (That the name of me) (Yahweh is). See that last character after the tetragrammaton? There's your "is."

You continue to forget that God magnified his Word above his name.

You've claimed this many times before, but never supported it. Yes, he magnified his actions and his teachings. That doesn't suggest that he magnified these -above- himself (or his name).

... if you served God absolutely correctly except that referred to him as "Ba'al" ... do you think that would be no big deal to God? We can debate the exact pronunciation of his name... but to deny that he has a name at all when Jeremiah 16:21 so clearly shows him saying that by all his might, we should know that his name is Jehovah... kinda indicates that he wants us to know his name.

If you want to continue picking out an individual word and saying that you think it should be translated in a way that no bible translators have phrased it... please give justification for that (more than your ) and how you believe the phrase should be translated (in whole).

Now lets look at Jeremiah 16:21 once again

Verse 21 --- "Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know (twice established) mine hand and might ; and they shall know that my "superiority" , The Lord God"

[/quote]

"my superiority" would be a proper translation of "gburth·i" ... not of "shem·i."

... have you studied hebrew at all?


... luckily, we have greek renditions of jeremiah 16:21 as well. I'm sure you have a copy of the Septuagint? The hebrew phrase "shem·i" in rendered in Greek "onom¢a moi" ... again "my name." Looks like -all- the bible translators as far back as the 2nd century BC disagree with you. If you have no evidence beyond the idea that "you think it should be translated that way 'cuz you say so" ... good to know.

 

[Mysteryman]

But I continue to see that you want to use the word "IS" within your comments. You seem to be more concerned with the name instead of the meaning behind the words.

You've pointed out your opinion on individual words, but the act of translation is taking a complete thought in one language, and phrasing that complete thought in another language. You stated that you objected to the word "name" ... and insisted that it must be "renown" instead. You also stated that "is" is italic in the KJV, therefore it should be ignored. So, what do you believe is the proper translation of the entire phrase?

"And they shall know that my renown Jehovah?" ... you're entitled to that opinion, but it disagrees with ALL the translations I've seen.

Take a look at this interlinear:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInte ... /jer16.pdf

?????? ???????? ??????????? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ?????????? ??????????????????? ?????????? ????????????? ???????? ?

... the last three words literally translate over (and they shall know) (That the name of me) (Yahweh is). See that last character after the tetragrammaton? There's your "is."

You continue to forget that God magnified his Word above his name.

You've claimed this many times before, but never supported it. Yes, he magnified his actions and his teachings. That doesn't suggest that he magnified these -above- himself (or his name).

... if you served God absolutely correctly except that referred to him as "Ba'al" ... do you think that would be no big deal to God? We can debate the exact pronunciation of his name... but to deny that he has a name at all when Jeremiah 16:21 so clearly shows him saying that by all his might, we should know that his name is Jehovah... kinda indicates that he wants us to know his name.

If you want to continue picking out an individual word and saying that you think it should be translated in a way that no bible translators have phrased it... please give justification for that (more than your ) and how you believe the phrase should be translated (in whole).

[quote:j6arsnhn]Now lets look at Jeremiah 16:21 once again

Verse 21 --- "Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know (twice established) mine hand and might ; and they shall know that my "superiority" , The Lord God"

[/quote:j6arsnhn]

"my superiority" would be a proper translation of "gburth·i" ... not of "shem·i."

... have you studied hebrew at all?


... luckily, we have greek renditions of jeremiah 16:21 as well. I'm sure you have a copy of the Septuagint? The hebrew phrase "shem·i" in rendered in Greek "onom¢a moi" ... again "my name." Looks like -all- the bible translators as far back as the 2nd century BC disagree with you. If you have no evidence beyond the idea that "you think it should be translated that way 'cuz you say so" ... good to know.[/quote]


Hi Chris

You seem to want to argue translations now. I was trying to help you look beyond any of the translations. I never said, that the word "name" , which comes from the Hebrew word "shem" was inaccurate. I said that we who speak and read english, do not receive the proper understanding. Which means, that the word "name" from the Hebrew word "shem" does not convery the proper message to our little brains. The Hebrew word "shem" means much more than the translated word "name". Which is where you stop in your search for truth.

Your come back line, shows you are trying to magnifiy His name above His Word. Your rendition brings about contradiction within the scriptures.

There is no reasonable reason for God to have the gentiles to know His name. That is what Jeremiah 16:21 is stating. If this is exactly what it is saying, that God wanted the gentiles to know that His name was Jehovah. Then why can we never find anywhere the gentiles calling God by this name ?

Also, in Genesis 2:4 we read this same word (yahweh) translated --- The Lord God. Which is the way it should have been translated in Jeremiah 16:21. But, even if we leave that well alone and do not change a thing. The context renders the answer for us. And when I mean context, I mean the whole Word of God.

Show me one place where Jesus preached His Father's name, Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Paul preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Peter preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the gentiles called God by this name, Jehovah.

If God wanted everyone to know him by His name, then God failed ! If that was the goal of God ! Which it was not ! For he magnified His word above His name.

Bible translations have become our achilles heel. We either believe what a preacher tells us by blind faith, or we believe what people tell us by our blinding ability to translate. Which most of the translators have failed in miserably. Now you want to restore one's faith in translating ability ?

How about restoring one's faith in God , and the full context of all the scriptures ? God's Word does not contradict itself anywhere. But man comes along and does his own rendtion of translating, and suggests to others that what I have translated renders this the God breathed Word of God. Which again is totally untrue , false !

Like I told you before, I have no problem with the word Jehovah, as it conveys a thought. But so does the words -- The Lord God. Or the words---- The God of Abraham, of Isaac and Jacob. And if you told me these words --- The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I would have no problem whatsoever with your method of conveying your thoughts to me. And, both of us agreeing that we are talking about the Creator of heaven and earth.

Where I do have a problem, is when the Word of God is handled in such a manner, as to cause the Word of God to come into contradiction. The only way in which this can occur, is because of private interpretation. And the scriptures are of no private interpretation.

Look up the word "dunamis" , which is translated - "power" . Read every verse pertaining to this word. The reason I am asking you to read these verses, is to show you that Jeremiah 16:21 is talking about the same thing. The power of God, which is what God wanted the gentiles to remember and know ! Not his name.

Jeremiah 16:21 - (twice established) - "I will cause them to know my hand and my might"

Bless

 

[Mohrb]

There is no reasonable reason for God to have the gentiles to know His name. That is what Jeremiah 16:21 is stating.

So, you see God himself state: ""Therefore behold, I am going to make them know-- This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is Jehovah." ... and interpret it to mean that it's unreasonable for God to have people know his name?

Also, in Genesis 2:4 we read this same word (yahweh) translated --- The Lord God. Which is the way it should have been translated in Jeremiah 16:21

Just because the KJV changes the name of God to "the LORD" (all caps in the KJV, btw) doesn't mean that it's "the proper translation." Nor does it mean that such an alteration is acceptable in other parts of the bible. The topic of this thread is the pros/cons of various translations... and yes, it is common practice for God's name to be taken out of the bible in the nearly 7000 times it appears. That doesn't make it right. And, that's my point. If it's important enough to be repeated nearly 7000 times, often words spoken directly by God... any translation that changes God's word isn't ideal.

Show me one place where Jesus preached His Father's name, Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Paul preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Peter preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the gentiles called God by this name, Jehovah.

Again... the KJV is not the original copy. Might want to do some research about the tetragrammaton appearing in the oldest greek manuscripts.

http://jehovah.to/exe/greek/yhwh.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragramm ... _Testament

 

[Mysteryman]

There is no reasonable reason for God to have the gentiles to know His name. That is what Jeremiah 16:21 is stating.

So, you see God himself state: ""Therefore behold, I am going to make them know-- This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is Jehovah." ... and interpret it to mean that it's unreasonable for God to have people know his name?

[quote:23j338oj]Also, in Genesis 2:4 we read this same word (yahweh) translated --- The Lord God. Which is the way it should have been translated in Jeremiah 16:21

Just because the KJV changes the name of God to "the LORD" (all caps in the KJV, btw) doesn't mean that it's "the proper translation." Nor does it mean that such an alteration is acceptable in other parts of the bible. The topic of this thread is the pros/cons of various translations... and yes, it is common practice for God's name to be taken out of the bible in the nearly 7000 times it appears. That doesn't make it right. And, that's my point. If it's important enough to be repeated nearly 7000 times, often words spoken directly by God... any translation that changes God's word isn't ideal.

Show me one place where Jesus preached His Father's name, Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Paul preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the Apostle Peter preached the name of Jehovah. Show me one place where the gentiles called God by this name, Jehovah.

Again... the KJV is not the original copy. Might want to do some research about the tetragrammaton appearing in the oldest greek manuscripts.

http://jehovah.to/exe/greek/yhwh.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragramm ... _Testament[/quote:23j338oj]


Hi Chris

You are still missing the point I see ! Everything handed down throughout time is flawed - Everything ! You are putting your trust in either the translations or the manuscripts. Where is your trust in God and allowing God through the Spirit to reveal unto you, that He did not magnify his name above His Word ? You are making claims that his name is revealed 7,000 times within the scriptures, and this is just not true !

Jesus Christ said , that he came in his Father's name. Start there Chris.

 

[Mohrb]

You are putting your trust in either the translations or the manuscripts. Where is your trust in God and allowing God through the Spirit to reveal unto you, that He did not magnify his name above His Word ?

Starting to think you may be SNM? You seem to be suggesting that the bible is flawed, and that people need to trust your instincts over what the bible teaches.

How long will it exist in the heart of the prophets who are prophesying the falsehood and who are prophets of the trickiness of their own heart? 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba?al.

 

[Mysteryman]

You are putting your trust in either the translations or the manuscripts. Where is your trust in God and allowing God through the Spirit to reveal unto you, that He did not magnify his name above His Word ?

Starting to think you may be SNM? You seem to be suggesting that the bible is flawed, and that people need to trust your instincts over what the bible teaches.

How long will it exist in the heart of the prophets who are prophesying the falsehood and who are prophets of the trickiness of their own heart? 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba?al.

Hi Chris:

Instincts ?? I said - The Spirit of God !

What is SNM ?

And how do you interpret Jeremiah 23:26 - 27 ?

 

[Mohrb]

Instincts ?? I said - The Spirit of God !

God guides all who will listen... but he guides people in line with the bible. Anyone claiming to be guided by God's spirit, while rejecting the bible is at least questionable. At worst a false prophet.

What makes you so sure it's a heavenly spirit directing you away from God's word?

What is SNM ?

"sacred name movement" ... a group that has similar ideas to what you've been expressing. Specifically that the bible is fallible when anyone but them read it and can only be understood properly through their "correction." They also teach that Yeshua literally was Yahweh in human flesh, rather than God's son.

And how do you interpret Jeremiah 23:26 - 27 ?

Exactly what it says:
How long will it exist in the heart of the prophets who are prophesying the falsehood and who are prophets of the trickiness of their own heart? 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba?al.

Here, God is disapproving of how his people have been guided by false prophets to forget God's name and call him by other names (such as referring to God as Ba'al). Not only is this an example of God directly wanting people to know him by name.... but also disapproving of people who believe their own dreams over-ride God's word. Such people lead people to a religion they (knowingly or not) have made up, therefore false gods (instead of trusting the messages God gave us himself).

How do you view the passage?

When God says "They are thinking of making my people forget my name...." Do you believe God is OK with that? You keep suggesting that God "exulted his word above his name" ... so here, when he's talking about people forgetting his name by means of ba'al... do you think God's happy about that situation?

 

[Mysteryman]

Instincts ?? I said - The Spirit of God !

God guides all who will listen... but he guides people in line with the bible. Anyone claiming to be guided by God's spirit, while rejecting the bible is at least questionable. At worst a false prophet.

What makes you so sure it's a heavenly spirit directing you away from God's word?

What is SNM ?

"sacred name movement" ... a group that has similar ideas to what you've been expressing. Specifically that the bible is fallible when anyone but them read it and can only be understood properly through their "correction." They also teach that Yeshua literally was Yahweh in human flesh, rather than God's son.


[quote:1tohh2vn]And how do you interpret Jeremiah 23:26 - 27 ?

Exactly what it says:
How long will it exist in the heart of the prophets who are prophesying the falsehood and who are prophets of the trickiness of their own heart? 27 They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Ba?al.

Here, God is disapproving of how his people have been guided by false prophets to forget God's name and call him by other names (such as referring to God as Ba'al). Not only is this an example of God directly wanting people to know him by name.... but also disapproving of people who believe their own dreams over-ride God's word. Such people lead people to a religion they (knowingly or not) have made up, therefore false gods (instead of trusting the messages God gave us himself).

How do you view the passage?

When God says "They are thinking of making my people forget my name...." Do you believe God is OK with that? You keep suggesting that God "exulted his word above his name" ... so here, when he's talking about people forgetting his name by means of ba'al... do you think God's happy about that situation?[/quote:1tohh2vn]

Hi Chris

I never heard of SNM so it left me scratching my head.

Chris, if we do not walk by the Spirit, then we are walking by our five senses, which is carnal. If we read the scriptures based solely upon what is written with ink, then the gospel of Christ is either not in your heart, or you are not walking by the Spirit , but rather by the five senses (carnally).

Chris, I could not tell you that God magnified His Word above His name, unless the scriptures told me so. This is what God has told us, that He did indeed magnify His Word above His name.

When you read Jeremiah 23:26 - 27 your eyes focus upon just one word. The word "name". You read this word in such a manner, that only this word holds any meaning, when in fact context being ignored, should not be ignored.

What I do not understand Chris, is why so many people ignore context. This is the third part of Jeremiah that you and I have conversed upon . This is the third time that I will mention the importance of context. Did you read verses 29 and 30 ? (power)

Look at Jeremiah 23:1 - Who is God against here ? What reproof is going on in the context of this whole chapter 23 ? Have you read verse 11 ? What is the focus upon within this context ? Could it be pastors and prophets causing division ?

Now look at Jeremiah 23:21 and read down to verse 26. Now read verse 30. And it is my understanding, that verse 36 speaks volumes even of our day and time. Now, if you truely want to understand the meaning of what Jeremiah 23:27 means, read chapters 24 and 25.

Jeremiah was the Prophet of God and God spoke through Jeremiah. They were not hearkening unto the Word of the Lord God. Context will show this to be true. God is angry with them who walk after false prophets and who worship other gods , like the gods of Ba - al.

Do you believe that just because it is the year 2010 that people are not still asking and doing the same things that they were doing here in Jeremiah chapter 23 ?

Jeremiah 23:27 -- "cause my people to forget my "shem"

For the Word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any twoedge sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul, and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart - Hebrews 4:12.

 

[kiwimac]

For the Word of God is quick , and powerful, and sharper than any twoedge sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul, and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart - Hebrews 4:12.

You do realise that this is speaking of Jesus rather than the Bible?

 

[Scotth1960]

What are the differences among the different Bibles?

The ONT (Orthodox New Testament) brings out the real translation and meaning of Hebrews 6:6, (and so does the NASB). Also, the ONT has the real reading of Matthew 1:25 and a correct commentary on its meaning in one of its footnotes. This ONT, along with the OSB (Orthodox Study Bible), has some differences from traditional Evangelical Bibles. It has the complete canon. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington