Discernment and false teachers

[Jlynn]

Just wondering, there's so many "new age" preachers and churches that don't exactly line up with scripture and its perfectly acceptable to many. I mysel have recently gone through a church split due to a "revival" that wasn't much of a revival at all. With this revival came a whole lot of things.. Violent manifestations and Off the wall teachings. One famous preacher came to our town and many people were deceived by his teachings- he even mentioned that he himself had spoke with the apostle Paul which means he spoke to a dead man which means he is a spiritist involved on necromancy, many people bragged about him owning private jets, he has also admitted to being involved with a group that has ties to freemasonry, I could go on forever about this but my point is WHY is this stuff accepted? Why do so many Christian except false teachings and teachers? This is so disturbing where is the discernment today I pray for these false teachers and the people who are so deceived by them. You never know of the teachers themselves are deceived or if they have another agenda but we should pray for them all the same

 

[felix]

I could go on forever about this but my point is WHY is this stuff accepted? Why do so many Christian except false teachings and teachers?

(2Tim 4:3-4) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Because, people wanted to be deceived themselves.

 

[AirDancer]

Well done, Felix! You took the words right from my fingertips on the keyboard.

I would add that some people like to be involved in the 'latest & greatest,' whether it's a new product in the marketplace or a new revival in a church. They don't want to employ their discernment when it comes to a revival...they just want to be in on the 'latest & greatest'.

Then there are the people who truly & honestly seek healing via a revival, or to have their faith strengthened anew. Unfortunately, through a long enough lifetime, one will see or hear of many false teachers. That's why it's so important we place our complete faith in our Lord God, and not in man.

By the way, welcome to CFnet, Jlynn...I hope you enjoy your time here

 

[farouk]

Paul said to Timothy, 'Study to show thyself approved unto God', so why would preachers want the world's publicity? Preaching is a manward activity, engaged in with a Godward perspective.

 

[By Grace]

Just wondering, there's so many "new age" preachers and churches that don't exactly line up with scripture and its perfectly acceptable to many.

<SNIP>
This is so disturbing where is the discernment today I pray for these false teachers and the people who are so deceived by them. You never know of the teachers themselves are deceived or if they have another agenda but we should pray for them all the same

Felix got it right when he posted "Because, people wanted to be deceived themselves. '

We who are conservatives and Christians in the US had a real Hobson's choice on who to vote for this November. Romney had the right credentials as a business man, but was very slick in hiding the fact that he is a bishop in the Mormon church. From my dealings with Mormons on three different boards, I believe that they present a veneer of good behavior, but under that is a cesspool of deceit and lying that is programed into every other culltist. The god of this age has blinded them. Therefore those of us who voted for him because we dislike Obama so much were also deceived by thee god of this age.

Sadly, that is the way it shall be in the Great Tribulation (whenever that takes place). As much as I do not like Obama's political philosophy, I believe that the USA dodged a bullet when Romney was defeated.

I am not trying to derail the OP, but I wanted to give what I believe is a shot across the bow of every Christian who does not bother to discern our potential leaders as well as those who seek to teach us.

 

[Carolyn]

I understood that Romney is a Mormon. IT was my experience that Mormons are banned from freemasonry. When l was a teen in Jobs Daughters this was told to us. It was because Mormons stole the Scottish Rite ceremony and borrow from their legends when they were in Missouri before going to Utah. I may very we.l be wrong in this.

 

[Carolyn]

People fail to take into account that many TV personalities were actors by trade. They are very good at putting on a show. I have tried to warn several friends of deception but I was not believed till they were arrested.

People do seem to be attracted by something new and exciting. BUT l cant help but think that they also get caught up in admiring the emporers new clothes. Only God can deliver us from the pride that seeks glory admiration and noteriety.

Psalms 84 is my favorite. I would seek a very insignificant place in Gods temple in heaven. It would be such an honor just to be in His presence. And when l served in church, l felt the huge responsibility to serve God and His children faithfully. So the attitude of self exaltation
Is really foreign to me
. But there is always a temptation among pastors to have a growing church. MANY compromise the Gospel to make it less offensive and gain new members. From there it is a downward slide.

 

[Jlynn]

Thank you all for your responses I was honestly expecting people to oppose what I said because so many do nowadays thanks you guys!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jlynn, discernment is a gift from God. Most people don't even know to pray for this gift.
Many churches don't believe in the gifts.
I find that most people who attend church are sheep that follow the pastor and everything he says.
Many people may read the bible but don't really study it.
A great burden falls upon the pastor and how he tends his sheep.
You answered your own question, we need to pray for the pastor and his flock.

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Jlynn, discernment is a gift from God. Most people don't even know to pray for this gift.
Many churches don't believe in the gifts.
I find that most people who attend church are sheep that follow the pastor and everything he says.
Many people may read the bible but don't really study it.
A great burden falls upon the pastor and how he tends his sheep.
You answered your own question, we need to pray for the pastor and his flock.

Hi allenwynne!

Whilst it is true that all good things are from above, I don't see were discernment is a particular gift.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Sure, we do need to pray

Php 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
Php 1:10 so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
Php 1:11 having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

We have to practice and train our senses to be able to discern.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Please excuse the misinformation.
I've always related having discerment as being a gift from God because I prayed to receive it and one day I did get it.
Though it is not listed as a gift from God in the Bible, I still believe it is one.
When I am one with God in prayer, I am able to discern spirits.
I suppose discerning other things is different.
I never gave it much thought as being different but I guess it is.

 

[nmwings]

I agree with Dustoftheearth.... discernment is not a gift. While the passages he quoted were good, Acts 6:13-14 is more specific. It says that anyone who speaks against the Temple, the Law given at Sinai, or that Jesus changed that Law is a false witness.

That said, the Law is very clear about what is holy, and what is profane. If we follow the instructions, it is very easy to discern which pastors are true and which are false.

 

[felix]

I agree with Dustoftheearth.... discernment is not a gift. While the passages he quoted were good, Acts 6:13-14 is more specific. It says that anyone who speaks against the Temple, the Law given at Sinai, or that Jesus changed that Law is a false witness.

That said, the Law is very clear about what is holy, and what is profane. If we follow the instructions, it is very easy to discern which pastors are true and which are false.

The witness is false but not what Stephen said. If you want to apply the logic this way, why don't you apply it for Christ's false witnesses the same way?

(Matthew 26:60) but found none. Even though many false witnesses came forward, they found none. But at last two false witnesses came forward
(Matthew 26:61) and said, "This [fellow] said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to build it in three days.'"

If I apply the way you applied the logic, then anyone who says, Christ can destroy the temple of God and build it in three days is a false witness.

Unfortunately, Jesus did say that as we read in John 2:19. However, the witness is false, which means, the witnesses are prepared and not by themselves - not what they said.

(John 2:19) Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
(John 2:20) Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"

The same is with Stephen which can be read from Acts 6:11.

• It is blasphemy to call Christ who is a man to be equal with God according to the law the way Jews understood who took stones to stone Christ Himself.
• Jesus of Nazareth did say He will destroy this place. This can be either the building in 3 days or the future prophesy of not one stone upon another will be left. Either way, He did say.
• Christ did change the customs of Moses, by creating a new covenant where there is no circumcision, no law and gentiles are included.

I don't think any of what they said is a lie. Just as the same case with Christ's false witnesses, the witnesses themselves were prepared, which makes them false.

 

[for_his_glory]

Great scripture Felix and another reason people are so quick to be deceived is that they have not even heard if there be a Holy Spirit as Gods Spirit is not taught to them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 4:
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[By Grace]

Jlynn, discernment is a gift from God. Most people don't even know to pray for this gift.
Many churches don't believe in the gifts.
I find that most people who attend church are sheep that follow the pastor and everything he says.
Many people may read the bible but don't really study it.
A great burden falls upon the pastor and how he tends his sheep.
You answered your own question, we need to pray for the pastor and his flock.

Discernment is NOT the gift you want if you are interested in having many friends. :gah

Iit is a part of the gift of being a modern prophet--not in the OT sense, but in being to see through many things. Once while at a church in the South, I was on the lawn of the parsonage talking to a man who had many sexual illicit things running rampant in his home. Holy Spirit revealed that he ws using his 12 years-old daughter sexually, and that he did the same to his daughter who was in college. Immediately, I dropped to my knee because I suddenly had a great urge to wretch.

Another time while visiting another couple in the church, I started seeing confederate-style bunting hanging all around the room I was in with the couple. I knew that it was not there physically, and I was blinking my eyes to clear the vision from my eyes. Frankly, I was wondering if I was going schizophrenic. A year later, someone else told me that this couple were once members of the KKK.

In the first case, since I had no direct evidence, I could not call in a vision as a "reasonable knowledge" of child abuse, and in the second place, I was on my way to an out-of-state assignment.

The knowledge of these horrid-but-true things could not be shared with others in the church, but I share them here because they indicate what discernment is like, and how it is needed in the church. Sometimes, it is a burden, and sometimes it is a joy.

 

[Obadiah]

On the subject of why Christians are so easily deceived when some false teacher goes against scripture, it is because the vast majority of Christians never read much scripture. Statistics show that the majority of people in church on Sunday morning might (or might not) open their Bibles to read a verse or two as part of the service, then never look at their Bibles again until the next Sunday. (See, how many of you, most of whom are probably above average since you are even part of a Christian forum, are nodding your heads in recognition of the truth of this?) If a person was in church every Sunday without fail and the pastor used an average of 5 verses per sermon without ever using the same verse twice, that person would have to attend Church every Sunday for 120 years to hear the whole Bible just one time through! And the majority don't even listen to the sermon well enough to even discuss it with any real recollection by the time they get home. Some churches don't even bother with Sunday School anymore, but even in those that do, many times it is only a small minority that attend. The vast majority of those who attend church regularly will not read through the entire Bible in their lifetime. Not even once through! So how can they have any hope of knowing when a preacher is going against scripture when they have next to no knowledge of scripture?

 

[nmwings]

The witness is false but not what Stephen said.

OK….think about what you just said…..

“The witness is false..†They claimed that Stephen was saying bad things about the Temple and the Law, and that Jesus changed the law. Scripture identifies them as being false and you agreed that they were false.

“….but not what Stephen said.†Which means that Stephen was not saying bad things about the Temple, the Law, or claimed that Jesus changed the Law.

If you want to apply the logic this way, why don't you apply it for Christ's false witnesses the same way?

OK! They were false because they implied He would destroy and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, when in fact the Messiah was referring to His flesh-and-blood temple…. His body.

 

[for_his_glory]

On the subject of why Christians are so easily deceived when some false teacher goes against scripture, it is because the vast majority of Christians never read much scripture. Statistics show that the majority of people in church on Sunday morning might (or might not) open their Bibles to read a verse or two as part of the service, then never look at their Bibles again until the next Sunday. (See, how many of you, most of whom are probably above average since you are even part of a Christian forum, are nodding your heads in recognition of the truth of this?) If a person was in church every Sunday without fail and the pastor used an average of 5 verses per sermon without ever using the same verse twice, that person would have to attend Church every Sunday for 120 years to hear the whole Bible just one time through! And the majority don't even listen to the sermon well enough to even discuss it with any real recollection by the time they get home. Some churches don't even bother with Sunday School anymore, but even in those that do, many times it is only a small minority that attend. The vast majority of those who attend church regularly will not read through the entire Bible in their lifetime. Not even once through! So how can they have any hope of knowing when a preacher is going against scripture when they have next to no knowledge of scripture?

You hit the nail on the head. Many people are to lazy to study for themselves thus get sucked into the deception that comes from many pulpits as they are Pastor followers, but not followers of Christ. Each one of us is given discernment by the Holy Spirit, but not everyone even knows there is a Holy Spirit.

1 John 4:

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[felix]

OK….think about what you just said…..

“The witness is false..” They claimed that Stephen was saying bad things about the Temple and the Law, and that Jesus changed the law. Scripture identifies them as being false and you agreed that they were false.

“….but not what Stephen said.” Which means that Stephen was not saying bad things about the Temple, the Law, or claimed that Jesus changed the Law.

OK! They were false because they implied He would destroy and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, when in fact the Messiah was referring to His flesh-and-blood temple…. His body.

My message is delivered irrespective of the typo.

The stmt has to be:
"The witness is false but not what they said about Stephen.

Regarding the temple, the Jews neither understood nor believed it is His body. So, according to them, only the first part is a good reason to accuse.

 

[nmwings]

My message is delivered irrespective of the typo.

The stmt has to be:
"The witness is false but not what they said about Stephen.

Ok. Think about what you said….again.
We both agree that they were false witnesses. But then you say their accusation against Stephen was true. If their accusation of Stephen was true, what made them false?

Hint: Acts 7 are Stephen’s own words before the Council and he upholds Moses, the Law and the Temple. And he correctly accuses them of not obeying the Law, which is what infuriated them so much as to stone him right there on the spot. (Ironically, both Stephen and the Messiah were put to death after they both rightfully accused the Council and religious leaders of not obeying Moses.)