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- #21
Thank you for your help!
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Bible Study Dispensations
- Thread starter DavidC
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Douglas Summers
Member
- Jun 1, 2015
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DavidC, Did you study the information I posted you in post #10? We would do well in studying the Scriptures than just taking a mans word on a subject. (Acts 17:10-12) (2 Tim. 2:14-16)....................In (1 Cor. 4:1-3) Paul talks about in a stewardship, one is to be faithful. There are seven stewardships (dispensations) That God has tested man, and man fails everyone of them. We can not change the Bible to fit our ideas when Scripture is clear. Godly men can give you Scripture, but only God can give the increase. (1 Cor. 3:6-8). Please study the Scriptures, therein lays the Truth.
Christ in us
Douglas Summers
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- #23
Hi,
Well I am slowly working through it, I am at a cabin on a lake, been boating, fishing so I will get through all of it soon. Thanks again!
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- #24
I have a question, why would God set us up to fail, even after giving us the Holy Spirit?
I have not read everything in this thread yet, but this question came to mind.
We are participating in the divine nature now with the Holy Spirit. What are we going to fail at?
Thanks again!
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- #25
Hi,
Thanks for the info.
To you, what did Jesus mean when he told the jews to oick up their cross daily and follow him? Do you think that statement is for the future kingdom or now?
What statements did Jesus tell them that were for now or the future kingdom? All of them?
I believe we should pick up our cross daily but I don't believe we need to luve in a shack, nor do I believe we can't enjoy this life or not buy things for ourselves but I can see where people could take it to the extreme and a few probably have.
Just curious, is there a sanctification process for us?
I have more questions but will start there.
Thanks.
Jim Parker
Member
- Apr 17, 2015
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God has not set anyone up to fail.
God has given mankind everything they need for eternal, joyful, life.
He has also given man free will to choose whether he will accept God's gracious offer of abundant and eternal life or to reject it in favor of man's hope of creating his own imaginary utopia. (Socialism and communism are based on man creating a secular utopia on earth and has resulted in more death, destruction and misery than all of the wars from the time of Adam until 1900 combined.)
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- #27
Yes! This is epwhat Paul basically says in Ephesians, among other places, God has given us possessions and position in Christ to live an abundant Life, we just need to know how to use that which God has provided,
I was curious to know how the dispensationalists see it though, why do they think man will fail again?
Unless, I misunderstood what he was saying.
Thank you!
Douglas Summers
Member
- Jun 1, 2015
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God never set us up to fail. His purpose is to save. It was mans own self will and disobedience to God. The fallen angels never experienced the pain of sin. They did not have a corruptible body that could feel the results of sin. So to refine His creation, He made us in a corruptible body to refine us to a perfect soul and body eternal. (1 Cor. 15:33-58) Study it prayerfully. It is by the flesh we reap the results of a sinful nature. God never intended for us to live in the flesh and blood forever. The failure of man shows God's grace, and that he always needs God and God wants man to look to Him. Think about it. If we lived by all that God commanded, there would never be war or murder or thievery. But now look what shape our world is in. It is run under the influence of Satan. He is the prince of this world until the last battle.(Rev. 20:7-15) (Rev. 21:1)
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- #29
Yes that is true about satan being the prince of this world. Thanks for the clarification.
With the Holy Spirit, however, I do think this gives us a huge advantage of walking as Christ did.
I know it's taking awhile to get through all these posts, hope no one isngetting frustrated with me, lol
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- #30
Hi Kidron,
I have talked to and read where people believe there are 7 dispensations and even 11. Why the discrepancies? What is the criteria for dividing again?
Thanks.
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- #31
Hi Jim,
I can see how things are dropped off or dealt with in a manner that might be important to a Christian, but instead are left out. I can also see how this could be a Bibke study method, it keeps things neat and tidy, easier to recall periods of time.
What I have confusion about is why, if we are Christians, Christ followers, would we not be following Christ.
Thanks.
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- #32
Hi Eugene,Hi again DavidC, and although I have transcribed, and posted a much more detailed study at http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/dispensations.64514/, I will just paste the following notes by Scofield. If you can see this, the longer version will be in order.
Dispensations - Notes by Scofield from The Online Bible
1. The method or scheme according to which God carries out his purposes towards men is called a dispensation. There are usually reckoned three dispensations, the Patriarchal, the Mosaic or Jewish, and the Christian. These were so many stages in God's unfolding of his purpose of grace toward men. The word is not found with this meaning in Scripture.
2. A commission to preach the gospel 1 Corinthians 9:17. Ephesians 1:10 3:2. Colossians 1:25. Dispensations of Providence are providential events which affect men either in the way of mercy or of judgment.
A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God. Seven such dispensations are distinguished in Scripture.
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The First Dispensation: Innocency. Genesis 1:28 note. Man was created in innocency, placed in a perfect environment, subjected to an absolutely simple test, and warned of the consequence of disobedience. The woman fell through pride; the man deliberately. #1Ti 2:14 God restored His sinning creatures, but the dispensation of innocency ended in the judgment of the Expulsion #Gen 3:24 See, for the other dispensations;
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The Second Dispensation: Conscience or moral responsibility. Genesis 3:7 By disobedience man came to a personal and experimental knowledge of good and evil -- of good as obedience, of evil as disobedience to the known will of God. Through that knowledge conscience awoke. Expelled from Eden and placed under the second, or ADAMIC COVENANT, man was responsible to do all known good, to abstain from all known evil, and to approach God through sacrifice. The result of this second testing of man is stated in Genesis 6:5 and the dispensation ended in the judgment of the Flood. Apparently "the east of the garden" Genesis 3:24 where were the cherubims and the flame, remained the place of worship through this second dispensation.
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The Third Dispensation: Human Government. Genesis 8:15 note. Under Conscience, as in Innocency, man utterly failed, and the judgment of the Flood marks the end of the second dispensation and the beginning of the third. The declaration of the Noahic Covenant subjects humanity to a new test. Its distinctive feature is the institution, for the first time, of human government -- the government of man by man. The highest function of government is the judicial taking of life. All other governmental powers are implied in that. It follows that the third dispensation is distinctively that of human government. Man is responsible to govern the world for God. That responsibility rested upon the whole race, Jew and Gentile, until the failure of Israel under the Palestinian Covenant (Deuteronomy 28.-30.1-10) brought the judgment of the Captivities, when "the times of the Gentiles" (See) Luke 21:24. Revelations 16:14 began, and the government of the world passed exclusively into Gentile hands. Daniel 2:36-45. Luke 21:24. Acts 15:14-17. That both Israel and the Gentiles have governed for self, not God, is sadly apparent. The judgment of the confusion of tongues ended the racial testing; that of the captivities the Jewish; while the Gentile testing will end in the smiting of the Image (Daniel 2.) and the judgment of the nations. Matthew 25:31-46.
The Fourth Dispensation: Promise. For Abraham, and his descendants it is evident that the Abrahamic Covenant See Scofield "Genesis 15:18" made a great change. They became distinctively the heirs of promise. That covenant is wholly gracious and unconditional. The descendants of Abraham had but to abide in their own land to inherit every blessing. In Egypt they lost their blessings, but not their covenant. The Dispensation of Promise ended when Israel rashly accepted the law #Ex 19:8. Grace had prepared a deliverer (Moses), provided a sacrifice for the guilty, and by divine power brought them out of bondage #Ex 19:4 but at Sinai they exchanged grace for law. The Dispensation of Promise extends from Gen 12.1 to Ex 19.8, and was exclusively Israelitish. The dispensation must be distinguished from the covenant. The former is a mode of testing; the latter is everlasting because unconditional. The law did not abrogate the Abrahamic Covenant Galatians 3:15-18 but was an intermediate disciplinary dealing "till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made" Galatians 3:19-29 4:1-7. Only the dispensation, as a testing of Israel, ended at the giving of the law.
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The Fifth Dispensation: Law. This dispensation extends from Sinai to Calvary--from Exodus to the Cross.The history of Israel in the wilderness and in the land is one long record of the violation of the law. The testing of the nation by law ended in the judgment of the Captivities, but the dispensation itself ended at the Cross.
(1) Man's state at the beginning. Exodus 19:1-4.
(2) His responsibility Exodus 19:5,6. Romans 10:5.
(3) His failure 2 Kings 17:7-17. 19 Acts 2:22,23.
(4) The judgment 2 Kings 17:1-6,20 & 25:1-11. Luke 21:20-24.
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The Sixth Dispensation: Grace. John 1:17 note (2) As a dispensation, grace begins with the death and resurrection of Christ. Romans 3:24-26 4:24,25. The point of testing is no longer legal obedience as the condition of salvation, but acceptance or rejection of Christ, with good works as a fruit of salvation, John 1:12,13 3:36. Matthew 21:37 22:24. John 15:22,25. Hebrews 1:2 1. John 5:10-12. The immediate result of this testing was the rejection of Christ by the Jews, and His crucifixion by Jew and Gentile #Ac 4:27. The predicted end of the testing of man under grace is the apostasy of the professing church:
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The Seventh Dispensation: Fulness of Times. This, the seventh and last of the ordered ages which condition human life on the earth, is identical with the kingdom covenanted to David. 2 Samuel 7:8-17. Zechariah 12:8.
Summary;
Luke 1:31-33. 1 Corinthians 15:24, and gathers into itself under Christ all past "times":
(1) The time of oppression and misrule ends by Christ taking His kingdom. #Isa 11:3,4.
(2) The time of testimony and divine forbearance ends in judgment. #Mt 25:31-46 Acts 17:30,31. Revelations 20:7-15.
(3) The time of toil ends in rest and reward. 2 Thessalonians 1:6,7.
(4) The time of suffering ends in glory. Romans 8:17,18.
(5) The time of Israel's blindness and chastisement ends in restoration and conversion. Romans 11:25-27. Ezekiel 39:25-29.
(6) The times of the Gentiles end in the smiting of the image and the setting up of the kingdom of the heavens. Daniel 2:34,35. Revelations 19:15-21.
(7) The time of creation's thraldom ends in deliverance at the manifestation of the sons of God. #Genesis 3:17. Isaiah 11:6-8. Romans 8:19-21.
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The Dispensation of the Kingdom. ( 2 Samuel 7:16 refs.) begins with the return of Christ to the earth, runs through the "thousand years" of His earth-rule, and ends when He has delivered up the kingdom to the Father.
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Why do you believe there are 7 disoensations? Someone listed only 5 and I have heard 11 before, I have spoken to a pastor who teaches this, he says 11 is hyper, he believes in 7, but he is actually hyper when comparing.
What is the criteria for dividing into another disoensation?
Hi DavidC, I personally am only going much on what is described by others, but in my study of the bible the seven divisions made sense which concerned major events and characters, and change in how God tested man.
For instance, there's no way I attempt to follow directions given to Adam and Eve, but God doesn't change, and the cure for not obeying God remained; He clothed them. Next, if I try to regulate me to Jewish law and/or ordinances it doesn't benefit me, because we are now governed as being in Christ in the age of grace as it were. Will we in the millennial, or kingdom age be regulated by existing conditions on the earth to all Israel who is to be saved, and then to know we'll be in heaven?
I reckon that God had to show us self righteous people to become fully aware of our insufficiency of self, and our need of Jesus as our Savior.
I have thought on this, and I suppose I could add additional separations such as that of Peter being the apostle to the Jews, and Paul being the apostle to the Gentiles, but they are both of the Church, so I leave it be.
Was the study presented by Gene Hawkins of any benefit to you?
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/dispensations.64514/, Thanks.
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- #34
Hi Eugene,Hi DavidC, I personally am only going much on what is described by others, but in my study of the bible the seven divisions made sense which concerned major events and characters, and change in how God tested man.
For instance, there's no way I attempt to follow directions given to Adam and Eve, but God doesn't change, and the cure for not obeying God remained; He clothed them. Next, if I try to regulate me to Jewish law and/or ordinances it doesn't benefit me, because we are now governed as being in Christ in the age of grace as it were. Will we in the millennial, or kingdom age be regulated by existing conditions on the earth to all Israel who is to be saved, and then to know we'll be in heaven?
I reckon that God had to show us self righteous people to become fully aware of our insufficiency of self, and our need of Jesus as our Savior.
I have thought on this, and I suppose I could add additional separations such as that of Peter being the apostle to the Jews, and Paul being the apostle to the Gentiles, but they are both of the Church, so I leave it be.
Was the study presented by Gene Hawkins of any benefit to you?
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/dispensations.64514/, Thanks.
I have spoken to other dispensationalists and Gene stated it as well that people state we are still under law, this has not been my experience, my church has always taught we are not under law but under grace.
It seems to be a theme of dispensationalists, maybe a justification to believe the way you do?
Have you recently heard a proclamation of a Christian stating we are under law?
In what ways do they say it?
Thanks,
billybalke
Member
- Jun 6, 2017
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What law are we talking about, the law of Rom.7:---- or some other?
Hi DavidC, and thanks for the reply. I know Gene Hawkins well, and he does not believe we are under law, but he says that others say we are under law, and of course that isn't restricted to them using dispensations to study the context of the word of God. To me dispensations is one method of showing God's dealings with man, and His testing of mankind under different considerations. There comes times when to rightly divide truth, we must discern when God is talking to Eve, He isn't necessarily addressing me.
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- #37
Ok, thank you, Iwas just curious. I talk to a dispensationalist pastor sometimes and he told me tithing is going back under the law, which I do agree that the 10% tithe was not given to Christians.Hi DavidC, and thanks for the reply. I know Gene Hawkins well, and he does not believe we are under law, but he says that others say we are under law, and of course that isn't restricted to them using dispensations to study the context of the word of God. To me dispensations is one method of showing God's dealings with man, and His testing of mankind under different considerations. There comes times when to rightly divide truth, we must discern when God is talking to Eve, He isn't necessarily addressing me.
Also, one time this lady said in front of him, "I wish God would just tell me what to do" and his response was, "he did, the Bible" lol. He said that in her statement she is asking to be put under law again. A list of tasks (law), when God has given the Saint all He needs to live an abundant life, we just have to know what he has given us and use it. ☺
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. (Or condemnation. Ever see the consequences of someone breaking the speed limit? and yet there are Christians that think nothing of it - LAW BREAKERS I TELL YOU!!!)
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (First we think it's alright to speed, and next comes joining ourselves to the Democratic or Republic political parties that have the right for some to practice abortion as a part of their platform.
)1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not . . . (Are we born of God? and Who is it that is begotten of God keeping us?)