Division

[Imagican]

Your make yourself, your opinions and your personal logic the arbitar of truth. That you do not think the truth is in any Church does not mean anything. Jesus said you must worship in spirit and in truth. He says the truth will set you free. But you say we haven't found the truth and cannot know it. Nobody knows it and your hear to tell us that. You put yourself as arbitar of truth. Just another denomination of one. You make yourself authority over what is true. That is why we have denominations and division.

Thess,

If I have indicated that I know ALL truth, let me offer my apologies and set this to right. I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE TRUTH. Feel better now? But, I can certainly recognize un-truth and that's what I was referring to. You certainly can't have it both ways for the untruth will spoil the truth, (you know, the old 'rotten apple' adage).

I will offer again, it's not the people that are wrong so much as lazy for those they listen to and follow. I ask that NO MAN follow my path. But, through the misery and emptiness of my past I have been forced to learn much. Some has been very beneficial, but much has been wasted time and effort and lessons that no one should force themselves to learn. Enough said in this respect.

I agree with 'some' of the doctrine of the Catholics but not their doctrine as a whole by far. I believe some of the Protestant doctrine but not their doctrine as a whole by far. Any time man tries to put me back in bonds again, I refuse to accept their rules, for I am free in Christ. You may not like that I am free for you choose to live in bondage. That's your choice and your peril. And like any slave, he would resent those that aren't and much wish that others were there to share in his bondage and misery. You stay, I'll go.

We were NEVER told to bow to the wishes of men but to the will of God. Your faith teaches that I am to bow to 'the church'. Sorry, I know better. I AM the Church. Christ lives within ME. If you feel a need to be bonded to something other than Christ so be it.

And listen folks, don't let these Catholics fool ya. You that claim to be Protestants are nothing more than an off-shoot of them. The Catholic church had controlled Christianity for so long by destroying all that refused their doctrine that when Martin Luther split from them he took a ton of baggage with him. He saw some of the lies that were perpetuated in the churches, but much of their false teaching he was blinded to for he had lived this way all his life and generations and generations and generations before him.

So really and truthfully Catholics and Protestants are kinda like cousins, kissing cousins in fact. If Martin Luther had been able to read the Bible and develope a relationship with God without the influence of the Catholic church, he would certainly have offered much more change than he did.

It's kind of funny how Abraham's two son's descendants could hate each other so much that death is what they most wish upon each other. Not much different than the Catholics and Protestants. Been killing each other for centuries, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. Real funny huh?

So I offer again, neither has followed the will of God. They have both tried to usurp HIS authority and replace it with their own. And what's worse, they have taught their children this same hatred for their brothers and perpetuated this un-CHRIST-like behavior for thousands of years. Shame on you both.

Now, as for me, I am a lowly worm. An ungrateful pig. A sorry, inexcusable piece of self-consumed flesh that deserves to burn in hell for eternity. But hey, I did it on my own and ask no one to follow in my foot-steps. But guys, I know this and admit it freely. I am no more worthy of the gift that has been offered than Hitler or Stalin, that murdering and adulterous King of the Jews, David, or the serpent slithering in the garden. But fortunately for me, God loves me anyway. He is totally displeased with me as a sinning shell of flesh, but he knows me, and loves me anyway. So much so, that He sent His Son to die for ME. Amazing isn't it?

So you worship your crosses, and pray to your statues that don't even look like Jesus or Mary or anyone else that they are supposed to represent, finger your beads, jump in a box and confess your individual sins so a 'man' can forgive you and tell you what to do to be absolved of your sins. Worship Mary, all the Saints and any other gods that you can create. Believe that a man can deny your relationship with God, and teach others that they must do all this and more that goes against the teachings of Christ. But for ME, Christ and His gift of freedom are enough for me to learn of God and to offer Him my love, devotion and gratefulness. Thank you God, and thank you Jesus. Amen!

 

[joyinhim]

Hi, thessalonian,

I have a conviction that we all should glorify God with good witnesses.

In free countries, most of us are not doing good job serving Him with all of our heart, soul, strength and mind.

I address both of them together as "Christians".

I am protestant but I have been expressing what I have seen as a whole Christian community.

I believe when we hear some one express negative opinions, we call it "bashing".

well thess, you may not like it but I have to speak my convictions for the Lord.

No one knows who is right. We just have to wait for His judgement.

 

[thessalonian]

If I have indicated that I know ALL truth, let me offer my apologies and set this to right.

Was that a 747 flying by or did my post just go right over your head.

I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE TRUTH. Feel better now?

I've followed your posts. I know what you believe. You make Christ out to be a big tease. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" but you can't know the truth. That's your gospel. It's nonsense. You make yourself the arbitar by telling us that what we believe with our hearts and minds is not true. That this skepticisim of yours is supperior to us and we must follow after your Jesus. Your just another Protestant posting opinions on this board.

But, I can certainly recognize un-truth and that's what I was referring to. You certainly can't have it both ways for the untruth will spoil the truth, (you know, the old 'rotten apple' adage).

The Mormons say as much.

I will offer again, it's not the people that are wrong so much as lazy for those they listen to and follow. I ask that NO MAN follow my path. But, through the misery and emptiness of my past I have been forced to learn much. Some has been very beneficial, but much has been wasted time and effort and lessons that no one should force themselves to learn. Enough said in this respect.

We've all had lessons learned. You've given me no reason to accept yours other than bashing what I believe as you do below.

I agree with 'some' of the doctrine of the Catholics but not their doctrine as a whole by far. I believe some of the Protestant doctrine but not their doctrine as a whole by far. Any time man tries to put me back in bonds again, I refuse to accept their rules, for I am free in Christ. You may not like that I am free for you choose to live in bondage.

Your bondage is in following yourself. Trust not in your own understanding the scriptures say. You will lead yourself down blind alleys, pridefully thinking that there are no authorities when Christ put authorities in this world. When God makes it plain that we are to submit to our leaders. Heb 13:17. You say, well that word of God is not for me because we can't figure out who they are today. You nullify the word of God.

That's your choice and your peril. And like any slave, he would resent those that aren't and much wish that others were there to share in his bondage and misery. You stay, I'll go.

I am far more free than you will ever be. The traditions of the Catholic faith are not binding or burdensome. The errors of your teaching leave you in shackals. Error contributes NOTHING to salvation. The traditions of the Catholic faith that have been passed down for 2000 years shed light far beyond what you can comprehend with your mind. The only way to understand it is to submit to it by the grace of God. The prejuidice you people post only blinds you to the amazing truth.

We were NEVER told to bow to the wishes of men but to the will of God. Your faith teaches that I am to bow to 'the church'. Sorry, I know better. I AM the Church. Christ lives within ME. If you feel a need to be bonded to something other than Christ so be it.

Your are your own pride. You are ruled by your desires and your rebellion. You find ways of denying the very verses that say that there are in fact authorities over you. It saddens me greatly. The Church is not a one man show or a bunch of individuals. The Church is the body of Christ. You will find some way to tell me that Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12 are not true. You tell me that the hand can do without the foot and the eye without the ears.

And listen folks, don't let these Catholics fool ya. You that claim to be Protestants are nothing more than an off-shoot of them.

Your a protestant. It's your roots. It's the theology that caused you to think the way you do.

The Catholic church had controlled Christianity for so long by destroying all that refused their doctrine that when Martin Luther split from them he took a ton of baggage with him. He saw some of the lies that were perpetuated in the churches, but much of their false teaching he was blinded to for he had lived this way all his life and generations and generations and generations before him.

Yes and now you are telling us that the truth is that we can't know the truth. That we're all confused and your doctrine of nobody knows the truth that will set them free, not even you and there are no authorities and everybody is a one man Church is where it's at. You follow your own mind and opinions and distortions. If I am being harsh my apolgies. But you are fooling yourself with all this. You have raised yourself up as a self styled "prophet" proclaining your own truth that has no basis in history and ignores passages of the Bible that contradict it.

[qipte]So really and truthfully Catholics and Protestants are kinda like cousins, kissing cousins in fact. If Martin Luther had been able to read the Bible and develope a relationship with God without the influence of the Catholic church, he would certainly have offered much more change than he did.[/quote]

Once again. Personal opinion your asserting as truth. You are the Pope of your little one man Church.

It's kind of funny how Abraham's two son's descendants could hate each other so much that death is what they most wish upon each other. Not much different than the Catholics and Protestants. Been killing each other for centuries, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST. Real funny huh?

Your ability to discern what went on in those days is as questionable as your ability to be able to discern truth.

So I offer again, neither has followed the will of God. They have both tried to usurp HIS authority and replace it with their own. And what's worse, they have taught their children this same hatred for their brothers and perpetuated this un-CHRIST-like behavior for thousands of years. Shame on you both.

Your comments below promote the very prejuidice you claim to abhore.

Now, as for me, I am a lowly worm. An ungrateful pig. A sorry, inexcusable piece of self-consumed flesh that deserves to burn in hell for eternity. But hey, I did it on my own and ask no one to follow in my foot-steps. But guys, I know this and admit it freely. I am no more worthy of the gift that has been offered than Hitler or Stalin or the serpent slithering in the garden. But fortunately for me, God loves me anyway. He is totally displeased with me as sinning flesh, but he knows me, and loves me anyway. So much so, that He sent His Son to die for ME. Amazing isn't it?

Aren't we humble. Now it's on to bashing a Catholic.

So you worship your crosses, and pray to your statues that don't even look like Jesus or Mary or anyone else that they are supposed to represent, finger your beads, jump in a box and confess your individual sins so a 'man' can forgive you and tell you what to do to be absolved of your sins. Worship Mary, all the Saints and any other gods that you can create. Believe that a man can deny your relationship with God, and teach others that they must do all this and more that goes against the teachings of Christ. But for ME, Christ and His gift of freedom are enough for me to learn of God and to offer Him my love, devotion and gratefulness. Thank you God, and thank you Jesus. Amen .

I worship no crosses. You slander me. Christ forgives my sins. I DO NOT FREEKING WORSHIP MARY AND THE SAINTS. YOU ARE A LIAR! I worship the one true God. I recognize the great things that HE has done in his mother and the saints. But I do not worship them. They can do nothing for me except to ask HIM for HIS grace to keep me on the path following HIM. Your ignorance of these things and self righteous attitude toward me and my beliefs, holding on to prejudice is duly noted.

 

[Solo]

I worship no crosses. You slander me. Christ forgives my sins. I DO NOT FREEKING WORSHIP MARY AND THE SAINTS. YOU ARE A LIAR! I worship the one true God. I recognize the great things that HE has done in his mother and the saints. But I do not worship them. They can do nothing for me except to ask HIM for HIS grace to keep me on the path following HIM. Your ignorance of these things and self righteous attitude toward me and my beliefs, holding on to prejudice is duly noted.

7 Be not deceived: God is not mocked. 8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh of the flesh also shall reap corruption. Galatians 6:7-8 Douay-Rheims Bible

 

[Imagican]

Thess,

Don't get yer hackles up. These are just words.

I think that I have tried to explain to you in past posts that we certainly DO still have leaders. I have indicated more than once that the Word itself offers us elders to lead us. And I admitted freely that there are most likely STILL leaders out there, even if they are difficult to find. You do realize that it took the entire lifetimes of the apostles to spread the Word through the little parts of the world in which they "started" the Church right? In other words, even though we have mass-media and such now, there's no reason to believe that EVERYONE has the ability to FIND these 'true' leaders. As far as you can prove, they are right here among you right now.

I still contend that I am not the Protestant that you accuse me of, yet you declare that I slander you when I mention that you pray to idols. If I am not mistaken, the Bible specifically COMMANDS us NOT to worship ANY GRAVEN IMAGE. It doesn't say that you can worship CERTAIN GRAVEN IMAGES, it says ANY. So, in this respect, you must understand that it certainly appears as if you worship in direct contrast to the commands that we were given, at least from my perspective. If I am wrong, then I recant my accusation.

What does FREEKING mean?

Yes Thess, I am a liar. I lie to myself all the time. It's in my nature. I try to tell the truth but the truth gets in the way, so I lie. Not only to myself, but to other as well including God Himself. Sorry, but like I said, I am a lowly worm and can't help myself. Fortunately there is a power greater than me that can though.

But I wasn't intentionally lying in the post that you got so angry about. All I did was try to offer what I truly believe to be the truth. If what I offered were lies, they were not offered as such intentionally and only offered through my ignorance. And even if they are lies, they are no more harmful or dangerous than those that you perpetuate through you own.


Now I see why Vic threatened to shut this one down before it even got started. I thought by stepping in and validating you original argument that you would cool down and we would be able to hash, (instead of bash), this thing out. Obviously I was wrong. Please forgive me brother for I didn't realize that the words that I offered would create such animosity.

Vic, you were probably right. Exhibiting this kind of anger towards one another simply because we don't agree on each others theology is certainly not a 'good' thing. I apologize to you too. I have been foolish and I am sorry. This has not been how Christ would have any of us treat our brothers.

So, Thess, with this I will offer a bidding farewell to you on this thread. I'm quite sure that we can find plenty of others to disagree on in the future, but I'm done with this one. No hard feelings from this end I promise. There's one thing that I refuse to take personal and that's your Salvation and the way you choose to find it. Love you brother.

MEC

 

[thessalonian]

Division with the Baptists 38 Denominations

Free and General Baptists
Free Will Baptist Church
General Association of General Baptists
General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
General Six-Principle Baptists
National Association of Free Will Baptists
Old Baptist Union
Original Free Will Baptist Convention
Separate Baptists in Christ
United American Free Will Baptist Church
United American Free Will Baptist Conference
[edit]
Strict and Particular Baptists
American Baptist Association
American Baptist Churches
Association of Grace Baptist Churches
Association of Independent Evangelical Baptists of Spain
Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
Association of Regular Baptist Churches
Baptist Bible Fellowship International
Baptist General Conference
Baptist Missionary Association of America
Baptist Union of Great Britain
Central Baptist Association
Continental Baptist Churches
Conference On Evangelizing Black America
Covenanted Baptist Church of Canada
Grace Baptist Assembly
Norwegian Baptist Union
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
North American Baptist Conference
Old Regular Baptists
Old Time Missionary Baptists
Seventh Day Baptist General Conference
Southern Baptist Convention
Sovereign Grace Baptists
Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
Strict Baptists
World Baptist Fellowship

 

[thessalonian]

Lutherans


Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Home page of the Wisconsin Ev. Lutheran Synod, based in Milwaukee, WI. Features synod news, articles from The Northwestern Lutheran, Bible readings, helps for congreagtions, and indices of members and congregations on-line.


Lutheran Ministerium and Synod - USA
The LMS-USA was formed in 1995 by pastors and congregations concerned with the lack of denominational alternatives in the mainstream of traditional Lutheranism. It describes its theological positions as "Biblical, Confessional, Evangelical, Liturgical, and Congregational."


Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Home page of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, based in St. Louis, MO. This synod is a moderate synod, once in fellowship with WELS. Provides links to congregations and services in LC-MS.




Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Home page of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, based in Chicago, IL. This synod is the culmination of the merger of the American Lutheran Church, Lutheran Church in America, and the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches. This merger was completed in 1988.


Concordia Lutheran Conference
The Concordia Lutheran Conference (CLC) is not a "church" in the Scriptural use of that word (as some synodical organizations seek to represent themselves), but is an organization of local churches or congregations bound together in true God-pleasing fellowship based on complete unity of faith and confession in accordance with God's Word. Membership in such an outward body is not required by Holy Scripture, nor is a synodical organization anywhere exemplified in the Bible. Yet purely practical considerations often make it advantageous for local churches to engage in cooperative projects with others of the same fellowship--things that would be unlikely for a small church to pursue and accomplish on its own, such as the preparation of a future ministry, the publication of Christian education materials and periodicals, and large-scale missionwork.


Church of the Lutheran Confession
The web site of the Church of the Lutheran Confession. This is a breakaway group formed in the 1950's because of a doctrinal disagreement with the WELS and ELS.


Church of the Lutheran Brethren home page
The home page of the Church of the Lutheran Brethren in America. This group has congregations in the US and Canada as well as foriegn missions in four countries. Links are also made to the educational institutions and periodicals of the Lutheran Brethren.


Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
Home Page of the the Association of Free Lutheran Churches. The Association of Free Lutheran Congregations (AFLC) was organized in October, 1962. Most of the founders were members of the Lutheran Free Church (LFC), which had voted to merge with The American Lutheran Church in 1963.


Apostolic Lutheran Church of America
Web site of the Apostolic Lutheran Church of America. Includes doctrinal beliefs of this synod, churches of the synod, and the magazine, Christian Monthly, is on-line.


American Association of Lutheran Churches (The)
The American Association of Lutheran Churches, a fellowship of congregations to which the Gospel of reconciliation has been given, seeks to focus and coordinate the purposes and resources of these Congregations to the end that the Triune God may be more fully known among men through a faithful ministry of God's Word and the Sacraments. The American Association of Lutheran Churches dedicates itself to bear witness to the eternal Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ in its fullness and purity, and to preserve and extend the unity of that faith as revealed in God's Holy Word.


Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference (CELC)
The Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference (CELC) is the successor to the old Synodical Conference, but on an international scale. Synods subscribing to the inerrancy of Scripture and full subscription to the Lutheran Confessions can be members.


Evangelical Catholic Church, The
This is probably your first acquaintance with The Evangelical Catholic Church. And that's certainly understandable since She is an extremely small jurisdiction and has not received much publicity. She does not own any real estate or sanctuaries. Her congregations are all missions -- struggling just to get off the ground. All of Her priests are tent-makes, i.e., they must find other ways in which to support themselves and their families. She is, all in all, a seemingly insignificant Lutheran Church body. But despite Her size and lack of worldly resources, She hopes -- under the guidance of Our Lord -- to make a salutary impact upon American Lutheranism.


Evangelical Community Church - Lutheran
Presenting a kinder and gentler version of Lutheran Christianity, we are The Evangelical Community Church - Lutheran, a small denomination within Lutheranism's Evangelical Catholic Tradition. Our national headquarters and theological seminary, Wittenberg Lutheran Seminar, are in Kansas City, Missouri, and parishes are located in Missouri and Georgia.




Free Evangelical-Lutheran Synod in South Africa (FELSISA)
The FELSISA is a church which in its preaching and pursuits is bound by the Holy Scripture as the indisputable word of God and by the doctrine and confessions of the Lutheran church. The congregations of the FELSISA are situated in Gauteng, Mpumalanga, Kwazulu-Natal and the Western Cape. The Church is constituted as a synod and is headed by the synodical council which is chaired by the President.


Free Lutheran Churches in South Africa
A site highlighting two free Lutheran church bodies in South Africa. These churches are not affiliated with the Lutheran World Federation.



Laestadian Lutheran Church (LLC)
The Laestadian Lutheran Church (LLC) was organized on June 9, 1973 under the name "Association of American Laestadian Congregations" (AALC). The association changed its name in 1994 in order to better convey its spiritual heritage and the nature of its organization. The Laestadian Lutheran Church takes its name from Martin Luther and Lars Levi Laestadius. Lars Levi Laestadius was a Lutheran pastor who served in northern Sweden from 1825 to 1861.



Lutheran Church in Korea (LCK)
This site contains news of the Lutheran Church in Korea (LCK), including the Luther Theological University in Korea (LTU) and the Korean Lutheran Hour.


Lutheran Church in Southern Africa
In 1967 the Lutheran Church in Southern Africa (LCSA) became an autonomous church. The LCSA originated from the Mission of the Evangelical Lutheran Free Churches (MELFC) in Germany (formerly known as the Hanoverian Evangelical Lutheran Free Church Mission) which was founded in 1892 which is now known as the Lutherische Kirchenmission (LKM). Therefore, the LCSA has close connections with the LKM (Bleckmar Mission in Germany) and with the Free Evangelical Lutheran Synod in Southern Africa (FELSISA). Since 1980, the LCSA has also worked together with the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod which resulted in a partnership agreement between these churches. As partner church the LCSA receives assistance in the fields of theological education and finances. It is a member of the ILC (International Lutheran Conference).


Lutheran Church of Australia
The homepage for the Lutheran Church in Australia. It appears they are theologically more in tune with ELCA here in the States or ELCIC in Canada.




Lutheran Conference of Confessional Fellowship
A site for the Lutheran Conference of Confessional Fellowship, a group that broke away from the Church of the Lutheran Confession (CLC), which itself was a breakaway group of pastors, teachers, and congregations that split from WELS and ELS in the 1960's.




Lutheran Evangelical Protestant Church (The)
The modern history of the Lutheran Evangelical Protestant Church, although officially incorporated by a vote of its members in Sept,2001, began in 1912. We are the successors to the Evangelical Protestant Church of North America and the Evangelical Protestant Conference of Congregational Churches. Our primary purpose is to reclaim the faith and practices of the historical Protestant tradition as instituted by Martin Luther, with the Scriptures as our primary guide. Our mission is to provide a denominational home for evangelical Christians. Many churches have deviated from Biblical truths about God, Jesus and the Bible. The gender of God is debated; the divinity of Jesus is questioned and the authority of the Bible is challenged.







Lutheranism in Siberia
West Siberian Christian Mission is the registered name of our parishes in Siberia and Ural. Unofficially it is called Bible Lutheran Church. The Novosibirsk parish has about 100 members. In addition, there are several congregations in other parts of Siberia. Congregations embrace all ages; there are many young people and children.


Malagasy Lutheran Church (essay)
The Malagasy Lutheran Church was founded by Norwegian missionaries who first came in 1866 and began work in the central part of the island. The work was supported by Norwegian Lutherans in the U.S. The first missionary sent by immigrant Lutherans from the U.S. was Pastor John P. Hogstad from Augsburg Seminary. He and his wife Lena arrived in 1888 in Fort Dauphin.



Wisconsin Synod lutherans


Ukrainian Lutheran Church (The)
The Ukrainian Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession was organized in 1926 in the “Galicia†region of Ukraine, which was at that time under the government of Poland. The liturgical forms used by the Ukrainian Lutherans reflected their Byzantine Rite heritage. Affiliated with "Thoughts of Faith" mission society (a church-related organization of the ELS).

 

[Vic C.]

Thess, I understand your point. You did narrow it down to a specific denom though. I think the same would apply if one were to go to a site that was strictly Southern Baptist Forum or an SDA or a Greek Orthodox or... well you get the point.

It's an exercise in futility to try and bring these forums together when people are starting threads like this. You must admit, threads with a name like "division" are bound to be devisive. What were you expecting? I wanted to shut this thread down, but I know members like you would point fingers saying it was shut down because we can't defend ourselves. The problem is, starting a thread like this puts us in a defensive position and the bickering begins.

The problem isn't just RC or Orthodox or Prot or whatever (I'm beginning to hate this name calling, finger point game anyway) , the problem is PRIDE. We all want to be right, but in reality, none of us are right is we debate in the flesh and not in the spirit. If we truely were to debate in the Spirit, we probably world get along just fine and respect each others beliefs and opinions.

But no...

I respectfully await your rebuttal before I lock it. You started the thread, you get the chane to finish is.

Peace,
Vic

 

[thessalonian]

Thess, I understand your point. You did narrow it down to a specific denom though. I think the same would apply if one were to go to a site that was strictly Southern Baptist Forum or an SDA or a Greek Orthodox or... well you get the point.

Working on it. I just filled my double post with lutheran denoms. I did not intend the baptist list to make the thread specific. This thread is going to get large rather quickly. A main point I want to make is one can find a specific date of origen and founder for each of these denominations. A man started them. A further fact is that every single one whether it will be admitted by the participants in this thread or not, is post reformation.

It's an exercise in futility to try and bring these forums together when people are starting threads like this. You must admit, threads with a name like "division" are bound to be devisive. What were you expecting? I wanted to shut this thread down, but I know members like you would point fingers saying it was shut down because we can't defend ourselves. The problem is, starting a thread like this puts us in a defensive position and the bickering begins.

There can be no unity among us until all truly submit to the word of God and that cannot happen until all are willing to submit to the authority that Chist placed on this earth.

The problem isn't just RC or Orthodox or Prot or whatever (I'm beginning to hate this name calling, finger point game anyway) , the problem is PRIDE. We all want to be right, but in reality, none of us are right is we debate in the flesh and not in the spirit. If we truely were to debate in the Spirit, we probably world get along just fine and respect each others beliefs and opinions.

I agree that the problem is pride and that is what Sola Scriptura feeds. I do not agree that debate is fruitless. Paul debated the Jews and they beat the hell out of him. He debated the Greeks and they chided him. But he debated anyway.

But no...

I respectfully await your rebuttal before I lock it. You started the thread, you get the chane to finish is.

Peace,
Vic

Jesus said I did not come to bring peace but the sword. As long as people are following their own interprutations of the Bible and setting themselves up as infallible and that their personal opinion of what the Bible says is God's word, we will continue to divide and add to the lists provided above. It's sad. And you are right. It is pride. Pride started it. Martin Luther said the Church and 1600 years of Church teaching be damned. Follow me or you are damned. He damned Zwingli and all who disagreed with him. He cursed and used filthy language and paintings of popes extruding bishops in fecees. The reformation is the source of this division and sola scriptura will never be it's solution. You can lock it now if you like. I can post many posts such as above for methodists, pentecostals, presbyterians, episcopalians, non-denominationals, Church of Christ, World Church of God, World Wide Church of God, God's Worlwide Church, Christ's Church, the Church of Christ, and on and on and on, all with significan theological differences. All with their roots in the reformation and Sola Scriptura that great doctrine of division. I am sure you will take my word for it.

Thanks for letting me post this.

Blessings and peace to you

 

[thessalonian]

I worship no crosses. You slander me. Christ forgives my sins. I DO NOT FREEKING WORSHIP MARY AND THE SAINTS. YOU ARE A LIAR! I worship the one true God. I recognize the great things that HE has done in his mother and the saints. But I do not worship them. They can do nothing for me except to ask HIM for HIS grace to keep me on the path following HIM. Your ignorance of these things and self righteous attitude toward me and my beliefs, holding on to prejudice is duly noted.

7 Be not deceived: God is not mocked. 8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh of the flesh also shall reap corruption. Galatians 6:7-8 Douay-Rheims Bible

No he will not be mocked by the self styled prophets who claim infallibility for themselves and put words in his mouth that are not from him and are taught by those who would twist and distort his word to their own destruction and the destruction of others.

 

[thessalonian]

I worship no crosses. You slander me. Christ forgives my sins. I DO NOT FREEKING WORSHIP MARY AND THE SAINTS. YOU ARE A LIAR! I worship the one true God. I recognize the great things that HE has done in his mother and the saints. But I do not worship them. They can do nothing for me except to ask HIM for HIS grace to keep me on the path following HIM. Your ignorance of these things and self righteous attitude toward me and my beliefs, holding on to prejudice is duly noted.

7 Be not deceived: God is not mocked. 8 For what things a man shall sow, those also shall he reap. For he that soweth in his flesh of the flesh also shall reap corruption. Galatians 6:7-8 Douay-Rheims Bible

No he will not be mocked by the self styled prophets who claim infallibility for themselves and put words in his mouth that are not from him and are taught by those who would twist and distort his word to their own destruction and the destruction of others.

 

[thessalonian]

Jude.1
[19] It is these who set up divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.


Luke.11
[17] But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.


Matt.12
[25] Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand;

1 Cor 1
12] What I mean is that each one of you says, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apol'los," or "I belong to Cephas," or "I belong to Christ."
[13] Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I belong to Zwingli or Luther or Calvin or Wesley, or Smith, or Rutherford or Campbell, or Solo or or Heidi or Klee Shey or Imitiation,.....

Division is not of God and that is the fruits of the reformation and sola scriptura.

 

[Vic C.]

Are you done yet? I'm deleting your double posts as fast as I can. LOL We know there is a problem with posting and are working to try and resolve the issue. Just hit the submit button once, then get up and go to the bathroom, get a drink, kiss you wife, hug your kids, etc, until the post submits. :P

j/k ;-)

 

[thessalonian]

Pentecostalism
http://www.christianforums.net/posting. ... ly&t=18991
A
Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
Assemblies of God
C
Christ Gospel Churches International
Christian Church of North America
Christian Congregation of Brazil
Church of God (Cleveland)
C cont.
Church of God Theological Seminary
Church of the Little Children of Jesus Christ
F
Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
I
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
International Pentecostal Holiness Church
P
Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
P cont.
Pentecostal Holiness Church
Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America
Potter's House Christian Fellowship
T
True Jesus Church
U
United Pentecostal Church

 

[thessalonian]

Are you done yet? I'm deleting your double posts as fast as I can. LOL We know there is a problem with posting and are working to try and resolve the issue. Just hit the submit button once, then get up and go to the bathroom, get a drink, kiss you wife, hug your kids, etc, until the post submits. :P

j/k ;-)

I get a not responding page back. Sometimes they take and sometimes they don't. I'm trying to just clipboard them until I find out if the posted. I'm still having fun. But you can do what you feel like. I've made my main point. Of course I would like to keep it around and bump it.

 

[thessalonian]

To those who would say we should all just get along and not divide or that most of this isn't really important God says "would that you were hot or cold but that you are lukewarm I vomit you out of my sight.". Truth sets us free. Error divides and has no value added to our salvation and santification. In fact it MUST detract from it.

Blessings

 

[joyinhim]

To those who would say we should all just get along and not divide or that most of this isn't really important God says "would that you were hot or cold but that you are lukewarm I vomit you out of my sight.". Truth sets us free. Error divides and has no value added to our salvation and santification. In fact it MUST detract from it.

Blessings

Thess, I hope you are reading my threads and posts too.

In His truth

 

[thessalonian]

To those who would say we should all just get along and not divide or that most of this isn't really important God says "would that you were hot or cold but that you are lukewarm I vomit you out of my sight.". Truth sets us free. Error divides and has no value added to our salvation and santification. In fact it MUST detract from it.

Blessings

Thess, I hope you are reading my threads and posts too.

In His truth

Yes. In fact they helped prompt this one.

Blessings

 

[cj]

It's an exercise in futility to try and bring these forums together when people are starting threads like this.

The first problem you run into with the above thought Vic, is that you (and perhaps the owners/operators of this website) have a particular concept regarding what "bring these forums together" means.

On the one hand this forum has brought people together, but in a different sense, this forum hasn't.

And for a good reason, God will never allow it to.

It was never God's intentio that oneness be found among the believing body through human reasoning and effort.

Truth be told, I doubt that ninty-nine percent (yes, the Lord cover me, but I will say 99%) of the users of this forum have any real understanding of what true oneness is.

And we all know what happens when God's people lack vision, right.

The proper interpretation of that OT vers is..... people loose restraint.

Which is exactly what can be found on these boards, a lose of restraint.

Now I'm not talking about being firm in your speaking or declaring what something is in truth, what "loosing restraint" means in the sense I'm speaking of concerning these boards is the going beyond the measure God has given to a believer.

In other words, many believers on these boards go way beyond the measure of trth that they have, they speak of things that they do not know.

God called this kind of conduct ".... darkened counsel by (speaking) words without knowledge." (Job 38:2)


I'd like you to define for us what you mean by "bring together".

You must admit, threads with a name like "division" are bound to be devisive.

Speaking is divisive;....... either dividing the soul from death or from life.

The scriptures tell us this.

What were you expecting? I wanted to shut this thread down, but I know members like you would point fingers saying it was shut down because we can't defend ourselves. The problem is, starting a thread like this puts us in a defensive position and the bickering begins.

A reflection of the sick condition of the majority of the body.

The problem isn't just RC or Orthodox or Prot or whatever (I'm beginning to hate this name calling, finger point game anyway) , the problem is PRIDE.

Otherwise called (withing christian circles)...... Christianity.

We all want to be right, but in reality, none of us are right is we debate in the flesh and not in the spirit. If we truely were to debate in the Spirit, we probably world get along just fine and respect each others beliefs and opinions.

Very good Vic,...... no right,..... no wrong,...... just life or death, light or darkness.

But allow me this,..... if we are in our regenerated spirit as we speak then there would be no debate for it would be Jesus Himself speaking through all of us.

And Jesus is just One.

And here,...... we find the reality of our oneness.

It is Jesus in us and us in Him.

And why?

Because there is only one reality of oneness in all creation, and this is the divine oneness of the Godhead itself.

Oneness in creation is the expression of oneness that has flowed out of the Godhead into creation, being expressed in and through creation.

Oneness is God expressed in His Godhead and in His creation;

"But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit. ."


Read, receive this, and understand....

"These things Jesus spoke, and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son.... that the Son may glorify You;.... Even as You have given Him authority over all flesh to give eternal life to all whom You have given Him. And this is eternal life,.... that they may know You, the only true God, and Him whom You have sent, Jesus Christ.

I have glorified You on earth, finishing the work which You have given Me to do......... [/b]And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."[/b]


"........... And the glory which You have given Me.... I have given to them,.... THAT THEY MAY BE ONE,....... even as We are one; I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one,....

........that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me."


The oneness of the believing body, which is to say, the church of God, is God's glory.

God's glory is actually the working element that brings about oneness in each believer with God and thus brings about the oneness in the corporate body of God.

And when this glory of God is expressed the oneness of God is express.

And according to scripture,.... when the glory of God is expressed, Jesus says, "... the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me."


To see oneness on these boards would be to see God's glory on these boards.

But no...

I respectfully await your rebuttal before I lock it. You started the thread, you get the chane to finish is.

Peace,
Vic

Well, you need to do what you need to do, but I'm glad I got a chance to put in my two cents.

In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It is fundamental to human pride that when we identify the 99% that are wrong, we find ourselves among the 1% who are not.

Likewise, we are programmed to blame the other with whom we have become divided for the divsion that exists- after all, Adam still speaks through the human tongue ("it was the woman YOU GAVE ME").

I believe that I understand the points you were attempting to make Vic, and at some level, I agree with said points....but I'm not sure how you're going to see an end to senseless attacks here when some of your moderators are purveyors of same.