Slydell said:
Looks like we've got two different discussions going on at once here. I'll continue with mine:
Sothenes said:
There will be no one in hell begging for repentance because repentance is what people reject because people do not want God to have a claim on their life.
So you're saying that people like me, who have every intention of letting God have a claim on our lives, but don't do it in the formal ways you speak of, will get to Hell and say "Ah, yeah, this is what I really wanted"?
I get the feeling it's a big problem of misunderstanding. There are many people in this world who do not understand the message you are preaching. But I do
not get the feeling that many of them will actually go out of their way to "reject" God, and that if they got to Hell, that any of them would say "Yep, been lookin' forward to this… all Godless and everything. Yup, this sure is the life… *shriek*". I'm not trying to mock you or anything (I'm sorry if it comes across that way), but can you really say the poor souls who end up in Hell would want to stay there? That they would feel absolutely no motivation to change their mind? That God would have no motivation whatsoever to honor such a request?
I realize this is probably a difficult question to answer… especially since the implications behind what I'm saying threaten the very existence of the church, so I'm sure there must be a well-secured reason to explain why I'm wrong. But nobody seems to be able to tell me what that is.
I'm not threatened by anything you say.
The average person hears the gospel about eight times before they make a decision. The difficulty may be in the transmission which involves communication. Was the gospel message clear and understood? Did the evangelist understand the gospel him/herself?
I was given a Bible and I didn't know anything about the Bible at the time. I didn't know why I should read it or accept it. Church was a big mystery at the time and it was scarry for me as a Child.
People give different reasons why they don't accept God. One of my friends lost her mother who was Catholic and for some reason going to church was the excuse because she thought it would hurt too much because it would remind her of her mother or maybe it was just an excuse.
The Bible does say that man is at enmity with God and the Bible does teach that man is devoted to darkness which is evident in some but less evident in others.
I went door to door handing out tracts with a guy from church and a lady answered the door and one of the reasons she gave us was that she was too busy raising her family to think about God.
There was this rich man.
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
I work for people who are well off and can afford to do things that I would never dream of because they are the heads of a multi-million dollar company.
Luke 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luke 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
The fact that the Rich man said,"Father Abraham" tells me that the rich man was a Jew and should have known better. The second thing the passage tells me is that the Rich Man still doesn't get it. Lazarus had a human need in this life and the Rich Man didn't have compassion plus the dogs came to lick the sores of Lazarus and the Rich Man still didn't do anything. The Rich Man doesn't repent in hell but still thinks that he can order people around because he says,"send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water". There is no remorse there. There is no being sorry there. The Rich Man's response is bold and brazen.
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
What people do in their life often tells others whether they believe in God or not.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
There is a great gulf that people in hell cannot cross.
Luke 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luke 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Did you notice that the man in hell doesn't ask for forgiveness?
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luke 16:31 And he said unto him,
If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
I can show people many infallable proofs about the Bible but they won't believe.
: )