Do I need to accept Christ as my Lord & Savior? Why?

[gingercat]

I don't want to bug you too much, but I'm curious if you can share with me where you feel I don't have a "passion for the Lord". I know it's difficult to put these things into words, and if you don't feel you can or want to, that's fine. But I'm genuinly curious why you think what you do, because I don't feel that way.

Sly,

Do you have passion for evangelism?

I believe this is the measure of passion for the Lord. If you have the passion for Him, you want to share how Jesus is working in your life every chance you get, because you appreciate Him so much.

Jesus will give you passion for evangelism when you trully appreciate Him.

You will not have evangelism spirit if you are not wholeheartedly following Him everyday. That's why it is so important to read the Bible daily and strive to obey everying in the NT. This is my conviction.

You are not bugging me. I am more than happy to answer anything you have in mind. :D

 

[Slydell]

You are not bugging me. I am more than happy to answer anything you have in mind. :D

Thank you, that's encouraging.

Sly,

Do you have passion for evangelism?

I believe this is the measure of passion for the Lord. If you have the passion for Him, you want to share how Jesus is working in your life every chance you get, because you appreciate Him so much.

Jesus will give you passion for evangelism when you trully appreciate Him.

You will not have evangelism spirit if you are not wholeheartedly following Him everyday. That's why it is so important to read the Bible daily and strive to obey everying in the NT. This is my conviction.

Thanks for your elaboration - that's much clearer.

I think I'll have to sit on that thought for a while. It isn't what would strike me as ones first definition, so it's an interesting one that I'll have to ponder.

I guess one of the things is that I've never been a great fan of evangelism in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing your ideas with other people (that's how you grow - it's exactly what we're doing here), but I'm afraid I do have an objection when evangelism reaches the level that you'd rather "give in" (so to speak, it isn't the best choice of words) to the message being preached to you, than to actually consider which is the appropriate path for you. It begins to draw the line when evangelists begin using many fear factors and techniques that bear striking resemblance to that of Brainwashing. I've experienced many evangelists that begin to cross that line, so I'm weary of them (and by all means becoming one!). Novum also touched on this in a fantastic post earlier in this topic - which I'd encourage you read if you skipped over it earlier. Novum mirrors my thoughts very closely.

With that aside, I can see how sharing the light you've found with others can be a very honorable thing (provided it isn't pressured on others, in my opinion). You're right – being a good evangelist isn't one of my primary concerns. Perhaps the reason is because, as I've already stated, I don't feel other people are in danger of going to Hell. Therefore, even though living a life for God/Jesus, in love, is a magnificent thing that I wish could be shared with everyone, I really feel like people need to be ready to hear your message before they will accept it. I know of many people who clearly don't live a life for love, and that is saddening somewhat, but I just feel that even if I was preaching my heart out, they just wouldn't hear me because it's not that time for them yet. And I sleep easy at night because I know the Lord is watching over them, and I believe everyone needs to experience a point of sorrow in their lives in order to truly appreciate the goodness of life. I don't want to be actively out there forcing people to "see the light" when they're still safely exploring the darkness. Granted, it isn't a place I would choose to be in, but I really think they're safe where they are – there's no danger. They're safely experiencing the magnificent darkness we're allowed to explore as humans, and therefore, I feel it's a fine learning experience for people. But as stovebolts suggested, I like to think that one day, every man and every woman will sing to the joys of the Lord. It's all a matter of timing - everyone gets there when they need to get there.

I think that's why I'm not actively engaged in evangelism. You're right – I don't go out of my way to search for people who are lost, and perhaps I should to an extent, I just haven't felt the call to do that at this point.

On the other side of things, there have been a small handful of people who have called out to me from the darkness, and when that's happened, by all means I go out of my way to help them see what I see. The reasons I do are because:

• They are clearly ready to listen[/*:m:458ab]
• I'm sharing my belief, and not pressuring[/*:m:458ab]

That's what makes the difference for me. That's what changes the line such that I feel it's my place to help people. And recall in my first post that I did say I feel a mission to inspire people. Perhaps that mission of "inspiring others", and your ever-important evangelism are not so very different?

Perhaps…

 

[DivineNames]

God really doesn't send people to hell. You choose to accept Him or reject Him and based upon your choice, God lets you judge yourself and God only affirms your choice.

Could you provide some scripture for this?

 

[gingercat]

Novum also touched on this in a fantastic post earlier in this topic - which I'd encourage you read if you skipped over it earlier. Novum mirrors my thoughts very closely.

I have noticed you are very similar to novum. He is very intelligent and I can tell you are too. Do you know he is an athiest? I have tried to reach out to him too but he is not ready to accept God yet.

Method is not important how you reach out. You will find out the way to do it. Everyone is different. I know churches have their own methods to evangelize. I don't believe you are ready to evangelize if you have to use someone's methods.

Christianity is all about salvation. God wants all of us to be with Him. That's way it is important for Christians to reach out to the lost all around us.

If we don't have heart to reach out to the lost, we have a big problem as Jesus' followers.

 

[Disciple88]

The answer to this topic is Yes. Yes you need to accept Him (Jesus) as your Lord and Savior.

John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world the He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be Saved."

I like you and I'm not saying you are wrong but you didn't quote one vere that says you have to accept Jesus as savior and Lord or one verse which spells it out as such.

Are you kidding me? Maybe you need to re-read what i said. Hey, I'm not going to argue with you, but wow. If you claim to be a believer.... maybe you need to rethink your salvation if all these scriptures do not show you the light.

 

[Slydell]

Diciple88, I agreed with Sothenes and I'll tell you why. Simply put, the bible verse you quoted didn't explicitly suggest accepting Christ into one's heart as his personal savior and Lord to receive redemption – the verse simply referred to those who "believe in him", which is subject to interpretation. Take me, for example – I certainly believe Jesus existed, taught for some 30 years, died on a cross and rose again the third day, and that he now sits with God in the kingdom of Heaven. But by the interpretation of most people here, I am not fit for the kingdom of Heaven, even though I "believe in Christ". It's a contradiction I see all over the bible and I don't believe it's intentional – it's just that I'm on a funny gray line that I seem to be "qualified" (for lack of a better word) for the kingdom in some verses and not in others. That's all he was trying to communicate, I believe.

Christianity is all about salvation. God wants all of us to be with Him.

Is that all it's about? Here's yet another snag I'm hitting where I don't agree spot-on with what the church is trying to preach to me. Christianity is all about salvation?

Granted, ones eternal future sure is important, but seeing as I think that isn't a major problem (I can't see God letting us slip up that badly), I would think one's main focus should be that of ensuring that, while we're all on Earth, we're all living our lives in joy and love. In acceptance, community, bonding, sharing, giving, communion, mourning together, laughing together, and so on. You really think you have no mission beyond salvation? That once you've saved everyone in your community, you pack up and go home?

I would think not. From what I've seen, salvation is great and all, but it's not the end of all problems. I've seen a bunch of born again Christians do some really stupid stuff.

Why not is Christianity about important ideas that focus on affecting our lives? I realize that being born again is a wonderful experience that causes a positive impact in one's life, and I don't dispute that one bit. But like I said, I really don't see it as the end of one's problems. My pastor speaks of so many things regarding salvation, and why you need to be saved, and save other people, etc etc. And then we leave. "See you next week". But why stop there? As a church, you are in a wonderful position to really make a positive impact in people's lives – help people not get stuck into bad habits and addictions, to help people in their marriage – in friendships, in self-control, uplifting advice, encouragement, to feel accepted, etc. I know of one church which tries to do this, and it's magnificent! But, the primary focus there is still on the concept of salvation. At the end of the day, that's the most important thing they're talking about, end of story.

I don't understand why. The way you bring about change in the world is by spreading the love. And so many churches don't do that. It's "all about salvation", as you say. I believe Jesus came to this Earth to set a dramatic example of what you can be, if you're committed. Look what a difference he made! See the crowds he healed! "These things and greater shall ye do" he told us. I believe firmly Jesus' message to us was one of how to live one's life, how you can make a positive impact in your community, how will people look to you when they're in need? That's what Jesus was trying to share with us, and I think the church has missed that mark completely! The church is still caught up in their mission to save as many people as possible, which I feel, at the end of the day, isn't in itself going to solve all of your problems. Granted, salvation will be very important assuming that it saves you from eternal suffering, and so of course I can see why it's a very relevant aspect for the church to teach.

But why stop there?

 

[Sothenes]

God really doesn't send people to hell. You choose to accept Him or reject Him and based upon your choice, God lets you judge yourself and God only affirms your choice.

Could you provide some scripture for this?

There are a couple of scriptures.

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

These verses are interesting because if we believe not, we are condemned already (John 3:18) "because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" and Jesus is still longsuffering and giving man an opportunity to repent because the Lord is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9) If God is not going to judge you on this earth then God gives you the choice to accept Him or reject Him.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

"He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."-Matthew 10:40

Receiving Jesus is based on"whomsoever" will (John 3:16)

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."-John 3:16

I'm one of those "whomsoever" but you can't accept or reject Jesus without making choices. You make the choice and God is longsuffering with you if you reject Him but sooner or later your time on earth will run out and God will honor your choice and if a person makes no choice, they are condemned already and will have their name blotted out of the book of life based on the fact they didn't accept Jesus while they were still alive here on Earth.

For those of you who wish to get technical with me and teach me about Calvinism, I don't know of many Christians living today who are five point Calvinists. Two Theologians I know of are three or four point Calvinists which means that not everyone believes in Calvinism.

http://www3.calvarychapel.com/library/t ... xt/cva.htm

“Conversely, the Scriptures teach that God elects for salvation, but that unbelievers are in hell by their own choice.â€Â

I think I could probably defeat the topic of Calvinism but most of the people I talk to cannot get past explaining TULIP and I don't know many people who have read Calvin's Institutes or studied the Council of Dort. I wrote a few articles on why Calvinism is wrong but it might take me a year or two to do in depth analysis to really defeat this doctrine of Calvinism.

I encourage you to start another thread on Calvinism but here is a little bibliography on why Calvinism is unscriptural:

Geisler, Norman, “Chosen But Freeâ€Â

Green, Oliver, “Elected to Heaven or Hell?â€Â

Hunt and White,â€ÂDebating Calvinismâ€Â

Rogers, Adrian, “Predestined to Hell? Absolutely Not!â€Â

Smith, Chuck, "Calvinism, Arminianism and The Word of God"

Taylor, Larry, "Calvinism vs. Arminianism", A Discussion of Doctrine

 

[gingercat]

Sly,

You are asking many good questions.

Have you read the New Testament thoroughly from the beginning to the end?

 

[Novum]

Sly,

You are asking many good questions.

Have you read the New Testament thoroughly from the beginning to the end?

I would guess that he has and, furthermore, that this is why he's asking these questions. ;)

 

[Novum]

I have noticed you are very similar to novum. He is very intelligent and I can tell you are too. Do you know he is an athiest? I have tried to reach out to him too but he is not ready to accept God yet.

Sly certainly comes across as intelligent. He sounds a lot like me at that age. ;)

And, ginger, do not presume that I - or others - will ever be "ready" to or desire to accept your god.

God wants all of us to be with Him. That's way it is important for Christians to reach out to the lost all around us.

He wants everyone to be with him, yet he's unable or unwilling to do anything himself. Instead, he supposedly has his followers do the work for him, often incorrectly and ineffectively. This does not show your god to be particularly competent; that he would allow things to be run so sloppily.

 

[Sothenes]

The answer to this topic is Yes. Yes you need to accept Him (Jesus) as your Lord and Savior.

John 3:16-17

"For God so loved the world the He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be Saved."

I like you and I'm not saying you are wrong but you didn't quote one vere that says you have to accept Jesus as savior and Lord or one verse which spells it out as such.

Are you kidding me? Maybe you need to re-read what i said. Hey, I'm not going to argue with you, but wow. If you claim to be a believer.... maybe you need to rethink your salvation if all these scriptures do not show you the light.

The Christian Research Institute spoke out about The Lordship Salvation controversy.

http://www.equip.org/free/MAL155.htm

It is true that Jesus is Lord and that Jesus is the Savior but submitting to Him is a result of salvation and not a cause for or a condition to/for salvation. If we could become righteous by merging our justification with sanctification in order to merit heaven then Jesus has nothing to save us from.

 

[stovebolts]

sorry Sly, I just don't have enough time. Forgive me for not taking the time that you have invested in this thread.

He wants everyone to be with him, yet he's unable or unwilling to do anything himself. Instead, he supposedly has his followers do the work for him, often incorrectly and ineffectively. This does not show your god to be particularly competent; that he would allow things to be run so sloppily.

While I certainly understand what you are saying, I sharply disagree. It would be fruitless to explain why, so please, accept my prayers.

Slydell,

Concering the Atonment,

It was an opportunity for God to help us relate to Jesus. Few of us can relate to a king dying a glorified death. But I think many more can relate to pain and suffering. It makes him that much more real.

Could I point you to Romans 5?

Another significant factor is that despite all of the torture they gave him, Jesus was still able to forgive them. That’s a very impressive thing to do, and I know of nobody who would do the same.

I think it shows us how Christ can see beyond our feeble understanding. Truly, this is God's grace in action huh? For example, look at Saul, he truly thought that he was doing God's will when he was persecuting the Christians. It took a direct encounter with Jesus for Saul to 'get it'. What do you think it would it take for you?

And lastly, the very fact Jesus rose again is the most important. It’s a very literal way to express to people that death is not the end, and is a great demonstration of the power of faith.

True, but could I add that it confirms that there is more after our bodies die. Yes, Christ has the authority over death and God says in 1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Why would you not believe on the name of Jesus if it holds such glory, such promise and such hope?

again, look at 2 Thessalonians 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The name of Jesus... there is no other name. I don't want to bore you with scripture, but God has given His son all authority. All Jesus ask is that you believe in His name and putting your hope in His name.

I just disagree that people who don’t bow will be rejected from heaven. That’s the singular thing I have trouble accepting.

You see, that's the thing. Every knee will bow, that's really not an option. But there are those that will experience 2 Thessalonians 1:9. Now, there are those that would argue the sequence and I really don't want to go there, but the fact of the matter is that some will not enter the straight gate. I'm not trying to be mean or use fear as a motive here, I'm just saying that there are many great things about having Christ in your life. Jesus said that he was the bread of life. What you have without Christ may feel like life, but Jesus said that he came that you might have life more abundantly. Jesus said that He himself was the truth, that he is the light. You have a light as well within you, will you cover it, or will you let it shine? If it shines, let it shine in Christ. Does this make sense to you or would you like me to clarify this a bit?

As far as not accepting Christ due to peer pressure,

Thank you for pointing that out – it’s something I hadn’t really considered. I do have a fear of accepting Christ, because it would represent a violation of my principles, and a blind act as long as I didn’t understand why.

Your going to end up talking yourself right out of a gift that is right in front of you. You see, in our feeble wisdom, we often miss what simple faith and hope represent. It's hard to let go of self and trust the unknown. Trust me, I understand.

I think what I lack here is sufficient background. I understand that prior to Jesus coming, each family (?) needed to sacrifice a perfect lamb annually in order to justify their sins, and be right before God. By Jesus sacrificing himself on the cross, he became the perfect lamb for all of mankind, making the lamb ritual a thing of the past. Now I can see why this is such a spectacular event – not only because of the traumatic suffering Jesus endured, but because we no longer need to keep doing this lamb thing. For God so loved the world that he sent his only Son (which is a little odd… it’s also written that we are all sons and daughters of God, but whatever).

ohh boy.. don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should go back to your OT as you may have a few thing a tad confused. Not to worry, most don't (including myself) spend enough time to search for Christ in the OT, but he's there. Don't get so stuck on the act, as the purpose of the act. Many of us partake of the Lords Supper, some call it other things but it is, or should always be a bit more than eating some little piece of bread. Anway, I don't want to get too far off topic so lets just skip over this for now huh?

Well, it's late and I've got to get up early and this is getting long. You have some good questions and concerns. Keep searching for the light and you will find your answers as God reveals them to you. Please, don't get hardened and don't let your lack of understanding callouse you.

Peace be with you.

 

[Novum]

While I certainly understand what you are saying, I sharply disagree. It would be fruitless to explain why, so please, accept my prayers.

Why do you say that it would be fruitless?

 

[Slydell]

(Bear in mind I started writing this post nearly an hour ago, and every time I went to post it, there was a new reply, so this first part is in reference to novum and gingercat's posts earlier)

First, to answer your inquires, you are partially right. I'm in the process of studying the New Testament, but I haven't completed it as of yet. It's fascinating, though – there are a lot of wonderful ideas present in the bible that I didn't realize were in there.

He wants everyone to be with him, yet he's unable or unwilling to do anything himself. [] This does not show your god to be particularly competent; that he would allow things to be run so sloppily.

I would never go as far as to say that God is "unable" or "incompetent" to complete any task. I believe what it boils down to is that if he were to consistently intervene in our lives in Godly ways (I'm talking like having bibles fall out of the sky or something ridiculous) that that violates our free will. That Earth is a place built for humans, and God is going to let us do as we please. But I think most people here already agree with that, so I won't spend time discussing it (though if anyone disagrees, feel free to bring it up again).

Sooner or later your time on earth will run out and God will honor your choice and if a person makes no choice, they are condemned already and will have their name blotted out of the book of life based on the fact they didn't accept Jesus while they were still alive here on Earth.

I thank you again Sothenes for you clear dedication to this – it means a lot to me. But we're still hitting a snag. You (and many others) have repeated many times that men do evil works and by passive, indirect "rejection", our loving Father doesn't feel the need to intervene and save us (when as I suggested earlier, many people from third world countries may not even realize they had the opportunity to accept Jesus). I've heard the message you're preaching to me so very many times, and if I was able to accept it, I wouldn't be here asking these questions to you.

I'm having problems accepting the fundamental issues that make up the foundation of your message, and unless they can be addressed, I don't see us getting anywhere.

Now, with regards to your most recent post linking to the Christian Research Institute… whoa. Thanks a lot for the link. It's a very interesting article and it appears to have some ideas that I hadn't considered before (though I'm not completely sure). It's actually a little confusing… it uses a lot of terms that I'm having difficulty understanding. But, from what I understand of it, it's a very fascinating article that I'll be sure to study. Thanks again.

StoveBolts,

Here I was, just ready to post all of this and I refresh to see everything you had to say ;) So here we go - here's to hoping that when I finish this I'll get the chance to post the thing before someone else replies ;)

Firstly, I really appreciate the replies you've given. You've been the author of some of the most relevant things I've read in this thread. You seem to be directly addressing my questions, and I appreciate that very much.

It took a direct encounter with Jesus for Saul to 'get it'. What do you think it would it take for you?

A really thought provoking message on an internet forum, perhaps? Not that you all aren't already thought provoking of course – but to 'get it', some very relevant thoughts would need to occur in my head to either

• Make me look past the contradictions that are ever so present in the bible[/*:m:d9520]
• Or, actually have those contradictions logically explained. I'm not looking for a detailed analysis (though perhaps it seems that way), I just feel like there's this gaping hole that I don't want to live by when it's there.[/*:m:d9520]
• Time. Enough time to let things sink in. [/*:m:d9520]

All Jesus ask is that you believe in His name and putting your hope in His name.

This begs the question: please please elaborate for me about specifically what you're trying to communicate when you say "believe in His name". There are so many ways you could interpret this, and the Church consistently assumes I'm interpreting it in a given way, while I consistently interpret it as another. I, as I've illustrated many times previously, interpret Jesus' message as that of love, forgiveness, compassion, and mercy. Therefore, I do consider myself a "believer in His name". It all boils down to interpretation (as I've said before).

The fact of the matter is that some will not enter the straight gate.

And once you pass by the straight gate, nobody in the kingdom will ever accept you again? If, from beyond the "angled" gate (again, lack of a better word here), if you would cry out to Jesus with all of your heart, that the Lord of all Lords, King of all creation, creator of the Heavens and the Earth, and your omnipresent, ever loving father, would actively refuse your cry for mercy, when he has every possible method of retrieving you?

Yes, let's assume for the sake of argument that passive "rejection" does warrant you a death sentence in Hell. Can you honestly say if you were sitting in the ever activated electric chair of Hell, screaming, crying to Jesus for repentance, bowing with every muscle that still functioned, begging for repentance, that your own Father would stand by and watch? What, he doesn't have the key to shut the thing off? The creator of all Heavens has no method or will to save you from that eternal fire you've condemned yourself to?

You see where I'm hitting a snag? I'd love to accept your belief system – it really would make my life much simpler. But I see these gaping contradictions. I see the bible saying

• God is the creator of everything[/*:m:d9520]
• God will always love you, no matter what you do[/*:m:d9520]
• Nothing you do will ever separate you from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39)[/*:m:d9520]

And then the Bible says that God stands by and watches if you screw up this little test on Earth! I cannot fathom how both of these could be true at the same time.

Does anyone else see where I'm coming from? Has anyone else ever wondered these things before?

 

[Klee shay]

It's very important to me that I have a personal relationship with God, and I feel like I can talk to him anytime I need to, and I really do feel like I'm receiving a response from him.

This is a great place to start because you're putting God first. Jesus taught this also, so did Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Moses and David.

I very much accept Jesus' teachings - in how to behave around others, "love thy neighbor as thyself", that all things are possible through the strength of the Lord, etc (though I have yet to personally experience dramatic miracles, but all things in due time).

Living by the instructions Jesus shared to demonstrate the perfect will of God, is another great place to start. You honour the father by honouring the Son, whom gave more than obedience but his life also.

But, I've never 'taken the leap' and accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and savior. Confessed that through only Him will my sins be forgiven, and that I would then be heaven-bound. I've never done that.

Maybe this is something you have to approach God about. There is a reason you have not done this yet and only God knows it; and there is a purpose he will reveal later. But you need to seek God on "why" he asked us to accept Jesus as our Saviour.

Any man who enforces why until you work it through with God's enlightenment, will lead to more feelings of this...

There is a large amount of pressure from my church and youth group to do so, and I hate to give into peer pressure and do this - because I really feel like it's something that, if I do, I need to do personally – alone, free from external pressure, and with very good reason.

I used to have a problem with authority too. I didn't like being told I had to do this or that...because it felt like control and not a free choice.

Believe it or not, God doesn't want us to come to him under bondage.

The problem is that I just don't believe that our actions on Earth determine whether or not we get to Heaven.

I've heard it described that our actions on Earth determine our reward in heaven; but the motivation has to be pure. Jesus taught mankind about the importance of having the right heart and not just the right actions.

But because Christianity believes otherwise (that the physical act of confession makes you heaven-bound), then making this confession would be betraying that which I currently believe. I can't do that. Not now anyway, not unless my belief system changes.

How astute of you Slydell. Christianity is not the reason for our confessions, but rather a pure heart that desires all things that are God's. Our Father in Heaven recognises an obedient, humble and repentent servant and moves in such a servant.

Jesus was one such servant but also the Son God handed "all things" to.

I'll leave it to you and God to discover what confessions should be made to whom? But I find reading what Jesus shared in the NT helps confirm anything God might reveal to a servant.

My question for you is this: what reason do I have to betray my current belief system and take "the leap"?

Unfortunately, any man-held belief system will pass away with Heaven and Earth; but the Lord's words will not. Need "I" give you a reason to betray your belief system to follow mine?

Jesus taught us not to follow other men so rightly so you should not succumb to my belief system or anyone else's. If I point to God however, then you should meditate on those things of God, with God.

Your relationship with God should be with the living God, and not the one mankind hold's up like a Golden Calf. You will find as you get older too, that you've held up your own Godlen Calf at times...I certainly have and I thought I was the most forthright, honest person I'd ever known. I place a lot of value on truth, but the one thing I didn't figure on as a youth was that my truth could stand in the way of God's. :wink:

Having a relationship with God should be a humbling experience that never ends.

In every testimony I've heard, people have spoken about their lives, previously terrible, suddenly becoming fantastic. But the thing is, I already feel like I'm living the fantastic life.

A consistent pattern in these testimonies is they've more often than not, come from people having experienced tremendous suffering they could not overcome by themselves. Only with God. Unless you too have experienced such tremendous suffering, then you could not possibly understand their testimonies.

You're coming from a different understanding, for you have known comfort, love and security on another human level. Which is not a bad thing, but it might be the reason why you cannot relate to someone else's dramatic change of heart towards God. They needed a Saviour and he came to deliver them through the Valley of the Shadow of Death.

I consciously appreciate every moment for what joy I can find in it, and ever since I've been doing that I've found my quality of life raise significantly. It's wonderful. What benefits would making this leap give me?

You won't know untill you make the leap but if you don't leap with the right desire to, then you won't know either. Remember Jesus teaches that you have to have the right heart and not just the right action.

There's so much pressure to make this leap.

Don't do it for pressures' sake.

The fear factor: "Do it or burn in eternal suffering",

Don't do it for fears' sake.

and there's the peer pressure (everyone else in the 300-kid congregation has done it, why not you?),

Don't do it for your peers' sake.

there's the emotional influences (loud music is highly emotional),

Don't do it for emotions' sake either.

Approach God first to see who's sake you should do anything pertaining to him, for. It's a lot bigger than we first imagine.

I simply don't believe God, our loving Father, would possibly allow a place to exist where we are separated from him - where he would not rescue us no matter our pleas, and that the determination of whether or not we end up there is all in a physical action taken on this Earth - a place I believe to be almost insignificant in the grand scheme of our spiritual lives. I can't accept that God would allow that.

In your youth you will want to understand much. Why? Because you've been listening to adults telling you your whole life to do things because you have to. Now is the time to understand why it's important. You're getting older and your ability to comprehend will mature with experience. But be prepared to discover that some of the adults told you to do things for good reason and some did it out of self-interest.

Beyond mankind there is God however, and you should be meditating on him and his word's more than anything else if you wish to gain his understanding of why things are just so. :wink:

Anyway, may God bless your journey which has only just begun. :D

 

[Slydell]

Klee shay,

I want you to know how very much I appreciate the time you've taken to reply to me in such great detail. You've written a very inspiring piece of work here, which I will treasure for a long time.

I do intend to pursue God personally. I feel like I shouldn't let myself be influenced by what other people tell me I should do (though I will still listen to every word people have to tell me, for that's where wisdom is sparked). It's very nice to have someone mirror what I feel I needed to hear so perfectly.

I think I'll go read a bit more of the good ol' Bible tonight, and then get a good night's sleep. I've spent the last two hours solid using this messageboard, and I think I'll breathe for a moment.

Thank you thus far to everyone who's taken the time to respond to me. By even encouraging me to write, I'm discovering things about my belief, and being able to give tangible words to thoughts that have been stored for so very long is quite a liberating thing. I can't begin to express how grateful I am that I've had this experience.

And I look forward to more of this after I am rested.

 

[Klee shay]

Enjoy your rest. :D

 

[stovebolts]

While I certainly understand what you are saying, I sharply disagree. It would be fruitless to explain why, so please, accept my prayers.

Why do you say that it would be fruitless?

Perhaps that was the wrong attitude on my part? While some of your posts are thought prevoking, you seek an agenda that I have not had the desire to debate. I do, however, have the desire to seek the truth of God and I rather enjoy speaking about Christ with others interested in the same topic that I enjoy.

That being said, relate it to this. I like apples, but I don't really care for peas. I'll eat my peas when I need to because I know that they are good for me and it even supports the farmers who grow them, but if given a choice, I'll always grab for the apple because you know what they say, an apple a day... :wink:

Klee shay,
Excellent post, I always enjoy reading what you have to say.

Slydell,
Sent you a pm. Catch ya all later today.

 

[gingercat]

Sly,

I just noticed you have replied to my last post.

All of your questions you asked me will be answered in the New Testament. Please read very carefully and thoroughly. Reading the New Testament is much effective and acurate than anything else.

I hope you take time and read it every day. It is summer vacation: I hope you take plenty of time to finish up.

After you finish, please come back to me.

Thank you.

May God bless you richly as you study the Bible. :angel:

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, so I'm late 8-)

All Jesus ask is that you believe in His name and putting your hope in His name.

This begs the question: please please elaborate for me about specifically what you're trying to communicate when you say "believe in His name". There are so many ways you could interpret this, and the Church consistently assumes I'm interpreting it in a given way, while I consistently interpret it as another. I, as I've illustrated many times previously, interpret Jesus' message as that of love, forgiveness, compassion, and mercy. Therefore, I do consider myself a "believer in His name". It all boils down to interpretation (as I've said before).

You probably already know this, but it is through faith that we are saved and faith, is simply believing in Christ. But wait, we need to confess, that our faith may be considered rightousness. (1 John 1:9) Some would argue that confession would be a work, but I think it's a manifestation of faith. (Romans 4) You see, even Satan and his demons believe and fear Christ (James 2:9), but they have no faith and thus, are not justified through Christ's blood and hold a destination that was prepared specifically for them.

And this simply takes us into hope, which is another way to say trust... (Romans 4, romans 8, please do read these chapters) Believing is more than recognizing who Christ is, it's also about doing (John 15:10) From what I think I understand, it's about accepting what He's about and what He's about is speading his kingdom (Matthew 13:33). Sure, He is love, mercy and all those other things, but he is also just and true and truth and light. Will you surrender your will and become His servent or will you remain a servent of Sin? There is no inbetween. (Romans 6)