Do Nice People Get Into Heaven ??

[nonbelieverforums]

Test Question 1

I am a nice person. I do nice things. I help people. I have no formal relationship with Jesus Christ.. I die in a car accident tomorrow. Will I get into Heaven?

Test Question 2

Oprah Winfrey has been vocal in telling the world that if you’re a good person you will get into heaven. Meaning there is more than one way to get into heaven. There are different avenues to get into heaven. Her teachings are viewed by some as being similar to the New Age Movement.

Keep in mind that futurists like myself keep an eye on the New Age Movement as we believe it will ultimately lead to a one world religion. This sets the stage for all religions to come together believing there is more then one way to get into heaven.

Anyway... many see Oprah as the leader of the New Age Movement.

This is what started the controversy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKZinlAbvcA


Now some are accusing her of being the most dangerous women in the world. They say this because she will maintain you don't need Jesus to get into heaven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FhqBsyCxao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BjL4Y9UOpw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE4NAapR8zg

Are there really numerous avenues to get into Heaven?

Let the games begin..

I am forming no formal opinion.. I am interested in knowing what you all think...

 

[westtexas]

Test answer 1--Nope
Test answer 2--Nope

 

[Tina]

I am forming no formal opinion.. I am interested in knowing what you all think...

How strange of you to ask such questions in a Christian forum.
Of course, no true Christian will agree with any of your theories !

Perhaps you should


:biglol ....

 

[Osgiliath]

ALL have sinned, and no one is good enough to get to heaven on their own (Romans 3:23). Getting into heaven is not based on whether our good outweighs our bad; we will ALL lose out if that is the case:

Romans 11:6 "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace"

We can do nothing good to earn our way to heaven (see Titus 3:5).

You can't construct another route to heaven (like the tower of Babel). Jesus Christ is it!

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Jesus is the only way of salvation because He is the only One who can pay the price for our sin (ALL of us - as good as we try to be).

Isaiah 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Compare these two verses:

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

Jesus said:

John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

And of course, there is John 3:16 :D.

 

[Ed the Ned]

I understand you questions nonbelieversforum but I do believe you should have put a formal opinion on the matter as Tina does not seem to understand your questions in the light in which they were asked. Oprah to me is one of the most dangerous women for the Christian faith at the moment as I feel she has drawn more people away from the Christian gospel than any other person. She claims to be Christian yet advocates other avenues to the father and promotes new age doctrine on her shows. It is the duty of all Christians to expose Oprahs teachings for what they are! A load of rubbish. Obama has the same beliefs as Oprah and I truly believe there jesus is a different jesus, a false Christ and if you follow those teaching you will be one of those who Jesus will say "I do not know you"
My wife purchased a book be Eckaurdt Tollie because it was on the Oprah show, when the book arrived at my house I told my wife about the dangers of the book as she truly believed Oprah was a true Christian and if she promoted a book it would be OK for Christians around the world. My wife has been a Christian longer than I have and if she could get sucked in to Oprah heresies I can only imagine how many others can. Although I am still learning about end time prophecies I have similar beliefs as you regarding the new age and its affects on a one world religion. My father inlaw got his doctorite in theology from his studies into the new age movement. Although he has passed away I had an immense amount of respect for his work and beliefs.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

I understand you questions nonbelieversforum but I do believe you should have put a formal opinion on the matter as Tina does not seem to understand your questions in the light in which they were asked. Oprah to me is one of the most dangerous women for the Christian faith at the moment as I feel she has drawn more people away from the Christian gospel than any other person. She claims to be Christian yet advocates other avenues to the father and promotes new age doctrine on her shows. It is the duty of all Christians to expose Oprahs teachings for what they are! A load of rubbish. Obama has the same beliefs as Oprah and I truly believe there jesus is a different jesus, a false Christ and if you follow those teaching you will be one of those who Jesus will say "I do not know you"
My wife purchased a book be Eckaurdt Tollie because it was on the Oprah show, when the book arrived at my house I told my wife about the dangers of the book as she truly believed Oprah was a true Christian and if she promoted a book it would be OK for Christians around the world. My wife has been a Christian longer than I have and if she could get sucked in to Oprah heresies I can only imagine how many others can. Although I am still learning about end time prophecies I have similar beliefs as you regarding the new age and its affects on a one world religion. My father inlaw got his doctorite in theology from his studies into the new age movement. Although he has passed away I had an immense amount of respect for his work and beliefs.

Many people do not realise how powerful Oprah has become.. she is one of the most richest women in the world. I have studied the New Age movement for years.. I maintain this is the path to the one world religion.

In regard to my opinion.. I am born again well within faith. I believe everyword of the bible.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

I am forming no formal opinion.. I am interested in knowing what you all think...

How strange of you to ask such questions in a Christian forum.
Of course, no true Christian will agree with any of your theories !

Perhaps you should


:biglol ....

Tina

Often when I do posts I try and attract unbelievers by making out like I am asking a basic question so I can get as many into the thread as possible. The more I stay nutural I find the better the debate starts out by playing dumb. But I always insert my opinions re scripture and christ near the end.

Now it seldom works that way on this particular site as in many cases I end up arguing with the preterists. I am thankful as I have learned a lot about other views this year.

You can look at my other posts if you want to see some of my past topics.

I really want to know what you think..

 

[mutzrein]

Man's 'righteousness' is as filthy rags no matter which way you look at it.

There is only one way that man will enter the kingdom of God - and it has nothing to do with whether or not he is nice or whatever. He MUST be born again. And this is NOT something of man's volition, but God's.

 

[nonbelieverforums]

Man's 'righteousness' is as filthy rags no matter which way you look at it.

There is only one way that man will enter the kingdom of God - and it has nothing to do with whether or not he is nice or whatever. He MUST be born again. And this is NOT something of man's volition, but God's.

Amen !!

 

[whirlwind]

Test Question 1

I am a nice person. I do nice things. I help people. I have no formal relationship with Jesus Christ.. I die in a car accident tomorrow. Will I get into Heaven?


Are there really numerous avenues to get into Heaven?

Yes....nice people (the righteous) get to heaven but they are not of the "first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] However, they are not with Jesus. They will be taught during the millennium and must be tested when Satan is released again. Until then they are considered "the dead," the spiritually dead.

 

[nadab]

The apostle Paul, after commending the Thessalonians concerning their "endurance and faith in all (their) persecutions and the tribulations that (they) are bearing", then says that this was “leading to (their) being counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which (they) are indeed sufferingâ€Â.(2 Thess 1:4, 5) Thus, anyone counted “worthy of the kingdom of God†must measure up to the Bible’s
qualifications and these must then be chosen by God, for the entry into heaven is not by personal choice.

Jesus told James and John, after these had requested to sit “at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdomâ€Â, that “this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.â€Â(Matt 20:21, 23) Hence, entering the “kingdom of heaven†is only by God choosing those “worthy†and these are selected for a very special reason - to serve as “kings and priests†(Rev 1:6), forming the “kingdom of Godâ€Â, along with Jesus Christ. These are the 144, 000 mentioned at Revelation 7:4 and 14:1. The Bible presents several qualifications in order to be “worthy of the kingdom of Godâ€Â.

(1) These must be “no part of the world†(John 15:19), not involved in the “world’s†political arena, nor it’s moral depravity, not longing for “the desire of the fleshâ€Â, “desire of the eyesâ€Â, or “the showy display of one’s means of lifeâ€Â.(1 John 2:16) As a result, these are "hated". Jesus had earlier told his disciples, that "blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."(Matt 5:10, King James Bible)

(2) These have left "Babylon the Great", the world empire of false religion.(Rev 18:4) These have come to recognize her wickedness as a "harlot" who committed "fornication" with the "kings of the earth" (Rev 17:2) and therefore no longer have any dealing with her, for these "do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues" (Rev 18:4) that God will soon bring on her.(Rev 18:8)

(3) These have put on the "new personality", patterned after Christ Jesus, stripping off the "old personality", for the apostle Paul speaks of being clothed "with the new personality, which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who made it."(Col 3:10) These have to "put...away wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech,...obscene talk."(Col 3:8) These have become "clean", leaving behind all their former practices, for the apostle Paul wrote that "sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God."(1 Cor 6:9, 10, International Standard Version)

(4) These "observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus", fulfilling Jesus command to "go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; teaching them to observe every command which I have given you."(Matt 28:19,20, Montgomery New Testament) Thus, these go "from house to house"(Acts 20:20), in imitation of Jesus, and "make disciples of all nations...teaching them to observe" all things that Jesus commanded.

(5) These make sure that they "touch nothing unclean" spiritually, morally or mentally (2 Cor 6:17), having come to clearly recognize that "righteousness and lawlessness" are diametrically opposed, as is "light ...with darkness".(2 Cor 6:14)

(6) These have not "worshiped neither the wild beast (Satan's worldwide political system composed of all the governments of the "world") nor its image (the United Nations) and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand".(Rev 20:4) As a result of not giving any "hand" of support to the "wild beast", many of these have been "executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God."(Rev 20:4) These tell everyone that all human governments will soon be "crushed" by God's kingdom, for Daniel 2:44 says that "in the days of these kings (that are existing now) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."(Webster's Bible)

(7) These make known God's name of Jehovah (Ps 83:18), for Jesus taught all his disciples to pray for his Father's name to be "hallowed" or sanctified, cleansed of all reproach (Matt 6:9) and to pray for God's kingdom to come, for God's will to take place on the earth, as in heaven.(Matt 6:10)

 

[Vic C.]

It's Lyrics time. :D

What if the life that we pursue
Came from a hunger for the truth
What if the family turned to Jesus
Stopped asking Oprah what to do

• Casting Crowns- "What if His People Prayed"

First answer= No

Second= No and we all should practice discernment when it comes to the New Age movement.

 

[jasoncran]

Test Question 1

I am a nice person. I do nice things. I help people. I have no formal relationship with Jesus Christ.. I die in a car accident tomorrow. Will I get into Heaven?


Are there really numerous avenues to get into Heaven?

Yes....nice people (the righteous) get to heaven but they are not of the "first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] However, they are not with Jesus. They will be taught during the millennium and must be tested when Satan is released again. Until then they are considered "the dead," the spiritually dead.

huh, a righteous person in the new testement is born again, in the ot there were those that followed the law and lived by faith, ie daniel, moses, the prophets, and some of the kings of judah. Those in the millenium are those that manage to survive the tribulation and have children, there will be death and judgment in the millenium.

 

[whirlwind]

Test Question 1

I am a nice person. I do nice things. I help people. I have no formal relationship with Jesus Christ.. I die in a car accident tomorrow. Will I get into Heaven?


Are there really numerous avenues to get into Heaven?

Yes....nice people (the righteous) get to heaven but they are not of the "first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] However, they are not with Jesus. They will be taught during the millennium and must be tested when Satan is released again. Until then they are considered "the dead," the spiritually dead.

huh, a righteous person in the new testement is born again, in the ot there were those that followed the law and lived by faith, ie daniel, moses, the prophets, and some of the kings of judah. Those in the millenium are those that manage to survive the tribulation and have children, there will be death and judgment in the millenium.

Scripturally, from what I have found, there are three types.

• Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Those returning are "His jewels." [3:17] His elect. In that verse we are shown....the elect, the righteous and the wicked. All go through the tribulation but the elect are those that stand (don't take the mark). The righteous are the good people of the world but they may be misled, mistaken, or fall for deception so they are not of "the first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] They are those that are considered "the dead." They, as all souls, are in an incorruptible body but they are not yet immortal.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by whirlwind
All go through the tribulation but the elect are those that stand (don't take the mark). The righteous are the good people of the world but they may be misled, mistaken, or fall for deception so they are not of "the first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] They are those that are considered "the dead." They, as all souls, are in an incorruptible body but they are not yet immortal.

What you seem to be overlooking whirlwind (by your reference to Revelation 20:6) is that by the end of the Tribulation, EVERYONE will have had the opportunity to hear the truth. Yes, now, at this present time, many are confused and deceived, but the purpose of the Tribulation is to fully reconcile this; and when the Seventh Trumpet sounds, the door is SHUT. That's it! There is no teaching Salvation or discipline in the Millennium. What would be the point of the flesh age in the first place if people could just be saved in the spiritual body; with no carnal nature, or Satan to impede their choices? Where is the testing there?

We are about to be caught in a great rift between Baal and the Lord. During the Tribulation, the laws of one king will stand in direct opposition to the law of God. With these two choices, distinct lines will be drawn in the sand. Everyone will be forced into making a choice. The consequence for taking sides, either way; will be dramatic. God's Two Witnesses and the 144,000 will make this contest very simple. They will cut through denominational diversity, confusion, and culture with a simple declaration. It will be a Mt. Carmel moment. "Elijah went before the people and said,

'How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.' . . . ." (1 Kings 18:21)

People will hear the testimony of Jesus coming out of the mouths of the 144,000 and the honest at heart will "hear the pure Truth" for perhaps the FIRST TIME. God's law will be proclaimed throughout the world with the power of the Holy Spirit. The distinction between truth and error, good and evil, will be made so plain that all previously misled people will be able to understand the difference.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

For 1,260 days Jesus will allow each person to make up his own mind. The Holy Spirit be poured out on every heart's door: plainly presenting a clear choice to ALL people to surrender to the Truth.

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh" (Joel 2:28) 

The TRUE Word of God will be heard by EVERYONE during the Tribulation. Yes, now at this present time people don't know which way to turn; and are misled, mistaken, or have fallen for deception. But you forget that the purpose of the coming Tribulation is to present the pure, uncorrupted Gospel; giving ALL people a clear-cut choice; with the accompanying power of the Holy Spirit poured out on the hearts and minds of ALL FLESH. That is the entire purpose and reason for the Tribulation! Just like at Mt. Carmel! The Tribulation is crunch time (not the Millennium), and will be the time for ALL people to be given that first (or second) chance to hear the TRUE GOSPEL. That is the part you are missing whirlwind.

 

[whirlwind]

Originally posted by whirlwind
All go through the tribulation but the elect are those that stand (don't take the mark). The righteous are the good people of the world but they may be misled, mistaken, or fall for deception so they are not of "the first resurrection." [Revelation 20:6] They are those that are considered "the dead." They, as all souls, are in an incorruptible body but they are not yet immortal.

What you seem to be overlooking whirlwind (by your reference to Revelation 20:6) is that by the end of the Tribulation, EVERYONE will have had the opportunity to hear the truth. Yes, now, at this present time, many are confused and deceived, but the purpose of the Tribulation is to fully reconcile this; and when the Seventh Trumpet sounds, the door is SHUT. That's it! There is no teaching Salvation or discipline in the Millennium. What would be the point of the flesh age in the first place if people could just be saved in the spiritual body; with no carnal nature, or Satan to impede their choices? Where is the testing there?

When the final trumpet sounds the door is shut. But, the dead, the spiritually dead will be taught. They will remain the dead until the end of the millennium. They, as all souls, will be in their incorruptible spirit body but they are not yet immortal so are considered....the dead.

We are about to be caught in a great rift between Baal and the Lord. During the Tribulation, the laws of one king will stand in direct opposition to the law of God. With these two choices, distinct lines will be drawn in the sand. Everyone will be forced into making a choice. The consequence for taking sides, either way; will be dramatic. God's Two Witnesses and the 144,000 will make this contest very simple. They will cut through denominational diversity, confusion, and culture with a simple declaration. It will be a Mt. Carmel moment. "Elijah went before the people and said,

'How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.' . . . ." (1 Kings 18:21)

People will hear the testimony of Jesus coming out of the mouths of the 144,000 and the honest at heart will "hear the pure Truth" for perhaps the FIRST TIME. God's law will be proclaimed throughout the world with the power of the Holy Spirit. The distinction between truth and error, good and evil, will be made so plain that all previously misled people will be able to understand the difference.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matthew 24:14)

For 1,260 days Jesus will allow each person to make up his own mind. The Holy Spirit be poured out on every heart's door: plainly presenting a clear choice to ALL people to surrender to the Truth.

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh" (Joel 2:28) 

The TRUE Word of God will be heard by EVERYONE during the Tribulation. Yes, now at this present time people don't know which way to turn; and are misled, mistaken, or have fallen for deception. But you forget that the purpose of the coming Tribulation is to present the pure, uncorrupted Gospel; giving ALL people a clear-cut choice; with the accompanying power of the Holy Spirit poured out on the hearts and minds of ALL FLESH. That is the entire purpose and reason for the Tribulation! Just like at Mt. Carmel! The Tribulation is crunch time (not the Millennium), and will be the time for ALL people to be given that first (or second) chance to hear the TRUE GOSPEL. That is the part you are missing whirlwind.

If we are to be of the first resurrection this is "crunch time" but....there will be many righteous people not part of that.

• Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
  
  20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
  
  20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

When this age ends "every knee shall bow." The good, the bad and the ugly. All will acknowledge there is the Father and Son. But, they won't remain in that position.

• Revelation 20:7-9 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Those joining Satan in his battle, and there will be many, are devoured. They are gone...so who are the others, the "dead, small and great," standing before God being judged "according to their works?" They are those that will experience the wrath of God when the seventh trumpet sounds....

• Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

There are two "crunch times." The end of this age and....the end of the millennium!

 

[Unlimited]

*snip*

Test Question 1: No. Not a chance. Good people don't exist. One would think he is good by comparing himself to other people. However, when measured against God, even our best deeds are dark as night.

Test Question 2: Oprah Winfrey is not a cited source used by Christian theologians. Jesus is the only way to the Father (John 14:6). So, uh, no.

 

[Vic C.]

When the final trumpet sounds the door is shut. But, the dead, the spiritually dead will be taught. They will remain the dead until the end of the millennium. They, as all souls, will be in their incorruptible spirit body but they are not yet immortal so are considered....the dead.

What!?!?

Maybe you could systematically lay this out for us in another thread with scripture because I am just not seeing this in scripture at all!

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by whirlwind
There are two "crunch times." The end of this age and....the end of the millennium!

I don't think so WW. The end of the Millennium isn't a crunch time as you understand it. It isn't another "decision making time", or repeat of the Tribulation; but is a desperate all-out attack. As saints and angels of God rejoice , Satan and the wicked multitude are moved to anger. There is no one to blame for their position outside the city, but themselves. There is nothing they can do to save themselves. As they gaze on the Holy City and the rejoicing saints, Satan seizes the moment, and he marshals the mighty host to make war against the City of God's people, inspiring them to take the city by force: 

"They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them..." (Revelation 20:9,10)

The end of the Millennium is not "another" Mt. Carmel moment to make a choice. That opportunity is long gone, and happened during the Tribulation. This is speaking of an angry mob of wicked people that know their fate all too well, and are marshalled by Satan to assault and inflict damage on the Holy City in a fit of rage and despair.

 

[Bick]

Test Question 1

I am a nice person. I do nice things. I help people. I have no formal relationship with Jesus Christ.. I die in a car accident tomorrow. Will I get into Heaven?

Test Question 2

Oprah Winfrey has been vocal in telling the world that if you’re a good person you will get into heaven. Meaning there is more than one way to get into heaven. There are different avenues to get into heaven. Her teachings are viewed by some as being similar to the New Age Movement.

MY COMMENTS:

Question 1 answer: NO. The standard is Christ Jesus in whose face (person) is the glory of God.

Romans 3:23 "..all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

As for question 2, you asked no question; you merely told what Oprah says that "a good person will get into heaven." I assume the question might be, "Is Oprah right?"

Again, the answer is NO.

As for having a future in the heavenlies, I find that only the Church/body of Christ, whose apostle and teacher is Paul, is promised that.

The hope of righteous Israelites and Gentile proselytes to Judaism, is the glorious blessings of the Messianic Kingdom on earth for the millennium; And later, life on the New Earth.

Also, the New Earth will be the future home of all those judged at the great white throne worthy of life, and whose names are written in the book of life.