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Do not be fooled by "Christian" polygamy--there is no such thing

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Yes, there are those out there who claim to be true followers of Christ and teach that Christians can be polygamous, supposedly based on Scripture. If there ever was a teaching that was meant to appeal to the fleshly, sexual appetites of men, this is it. That's how you know it's false.

 
This guy built a solid argument against the polygamous claims. From using AI to interpret verses, to their poor translation of Greek, to clear bible verses contradicting their claims.

It's one of those things that I just know is wrong but can't articulate it myself. He did an excellent job. I thought this sort of thing was dying off, guess it's still around.
 
I do not have 2+ hours to wade thru his arguments. I will give my own thoughts here.

It kind of comes down to your take on scripture, including your view on replacement theology and supersessionism. That greatly influences your take on OT scripture in general, and the Law of Moses in particular. In the OT, polygamy (specifically polygyny) was allowed. It was even COMMANDED in certain rare instances. God did not think it to be the awful thing that most of western evangelical Christendom makes it to be. Yes there were cultural reasons for that like an over abundance of women who were without support; often thru male deaths. That brings us to the place where it would be commanded.

Deuteronomy 25:5
When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.


There is no mention if the surviving brother is married or not; but since most marriages were arranged around 7 or 8 years of age and consummated at 13 or 14, the likelyhood of the brother being married is rather high. So he would be commanded to take a 2nd wife, with the caveat that all offspring would be counted as his deceased brother's. Yes he had the right of refusal. BUT if he chooses that route, his doing so is considered an insult to the country, the city and his family. (see verses 7-10)

IF you take the OT as having been done away with, rather than God's instructions on how HE wants us to live, then to prohibit polygyny does not run afoul of that command. But if you consider the OT scriptures to still have instructional value, then you must consider that.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


When Paul wrote that, there was no NT, as it was just starting to be written. That means the "scripture" he refers to is the OT, including Deut 5.

OK, what about this scripture?

2 Samuel 12:8
I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!


Or this one, which describes what "into your care" included:

Exodus 21:10
If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.


IOW, he has to have regular sex with her. God's command.

So what does the NT say, specifically about polygyny? Only this:

1 Timothy 3:2
An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 3:12
Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

Titus 1:5-7
For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine,


Nothing else is said. YES I agree that the Genesis says the ideal is one man and one woman. It also shows the ideal is that we all are "naked and unashamed." Things changed with the fall. Life is not that ideal anymore. God made allowances. The ONLY place where polygyny is prohibited is for congregational leaders; elders (includes pastors) and deacons.

In conclusion, is it biblically prohibited to New Testament believers? Unless you are (or aspire to be) congregational leadership, NO. But is it advised? Again, NO.

Then there is a whole other argument, that it is against the civil laws of the country and states/provinces. And we are instructed by BOTH Paul and Peter in the NT to obey the laws of the land (remember Nero was giving the laws at that time) and to not do so was to disobey God.
 
I do not have 2+ hours to wade thru his arguments. I will give my own thoughts here.

It kind of comes down to your take on scripture, including your view on replacement theology and supersessionism. That greatly influences your take on OT scripture in general, and the Law of Moses in particular. In the OT, polygamy (specifically polygyny) was allowed. It was even COMMANDED in certain rare instances. God did not think it to be the awful thing that most of western evangelical Christendom makes it to be. Yes there were cultural reasons for that like an over abundance of women who were without support; often thru male deaths. That brings us to the place where it would be commanded.

Deuteronomy 25:5
When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband’s brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband’s brother to her.


There is no mention if the surviving brother is married or not; but since most marriages were arranged around 7 or 8 years of age and consummated at 13 or 14, the likelyhood of the brother being married is rather high. So he would be commanded to take a 2nd wife, with the caveat that all offspring would be counted as his deceased brother's. Yes he had the right of refusal. BUT if he chooses that route, his doing so is considered an insult to the country, the city and his family. (see verses 7-10)

IF you take the OT as having been done away with, rather than God's instructions on how HE wants us to live, then to prohibit polygyny does not run afoul of that command. But if you consider the OT scriptures to still have instructional value, then you must consider that.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;


When Paul wrote that, there was no NT, as it was just starting to be written. That means the "scripture" he refers to is the OT, including Deut 5.

OK, what about this scripture?

2 Samuel 12:8
I also gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!


Or this one, which describes what "into your care" included:

Exodus 21:10
If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.


IOW, he has to have regular sex with her. God's command.

So what does the NT say, specifically about polygyny? Only this:

1 Timothy 3:2
An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 3:12
Deacons must be husbands of only one wife, and good managers of their children and their own households.

Titus 1:5-7
For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, 6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. 7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God’s steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine,


Nothing else is said. YES I agree that the Genesis says the ideal is one man and one woman. It also shows the ideal is that we all are "naked and unashamed." Things changed with the fall. Life is not that ideal anymore. God made allowances. The ONLY place where polygyny is prohibited is for congregational leaders; elders (includes pastors) and deacons.

In conclusion, is it biblically prohibited to New Testament believers? Unless you are (or aspire to be) congregational leadership, NO. But is it advised? Again, NO.

Then there is a whole other argument, that it is against the civil laws of the country and states/provinces. And we are instructed by BOTH Paul and Peter in the NT to obey the laws of the land (remember Nero was giving the laws at that time) and to not do so was to disobey God.
Then you need to watch the whole thing and see that the Bible is consistent from beginning to end that marriage is to be between one man and one woman, even according to Jesus, who based his arguments off of the OT. Being on this side of the Fall doesn't mean that certain sins are okay. Polygamy is prohibited for every believer because it is sin and an affront to God's intended design, which is the ideal to aim for regardless of living in a fallen world.
 
Then you need to watch the whole thing and see that the Bible is consistent from beginning to end that marriage is to be between one man and one woman, even according to Jesus, who based his arguments off of the OT. Being on this side of the Fall doesn't mean that certain sins are okay. Polygamy is prohibited for every believer because it is sin and an affront to God's intended design, which is the ideal to aim for regardless of living in a fallen world.
If it is a sin, then why did God command it? Why did God give David Saul's wives as his own?
 
God's grand design was creating Adam and then Eve to be his helpmate. Polygamy started with the lineage of Cain as mans hearts harden towards God. In the OT the only command against polygamy was for kings who were to only have one wife, Deuteronomy 17:17. Many like Abraham, Jacob, David, and Solomon all had more than one wife and God never condemned them, but also never approved either, but by their choice it wasn't always a good thing as it caused a lot of conflict between the man and his wives and that of the order of children born to him. Moses gave instruction in the law about the order of heirs from these multiple marriages, Deuteronomy 21:15-17. In the NT there are scriptures that speak against polygamy like 1Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6. Paul speaks of only one wife in 1 Corinthians 7:1-16. Ephesians 5:25-33 a husband and wife are compared to that of Christ and His Church.

Genesis 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Scripture is silent on God allowing polygamy as His intention was always one man and one women being united in marriage. Polygamy originated with the son of Cain with his 4x Great grandson Lamech (Genesis. 4:16-19) Although several biblical characters such as Elkanah, Solomon and David were polygamists the Bible gives clear examples of the destructiveness of this practice. Polygamy resulted in much heartache and trouble (Gen. 16:1-6; 1 Sam. 1:2-8; 1 Kings 11:1-8). God forbid kings to multiply wives (Deut. 17:14,17). David, Solomon, and other kings who had multiple wives were living contrary to God's Word.
 
If it is a sin, then why did God command it? Why did God give David Saul's wives as his own?
How does one exactly date a new woman and not violate the adultery idea?

I have been to a country where men I know and paid had multiple wives they didn't all live together and he spent different days with them

Because slavery wasn't explicitly a sin but regulated do you really want to argue that the pastor my church I could own him and his family ?

And vice versa ?

How does one keep a healthy marriage of a young wife then at the same time as she ages get a younger one and keep that dating thing going on ?

In the west we don't have ,not even in my surname or Judaism in recent history is marriage pre arranged .my second cousin wrote about how he dated helene and was shipped off and loved her but did date others on r and r .his uncle as his dad heard that Herman was in love sought Arthur to speak to Helen and her parents to get the deal done .

If you insist I can post the link to buy the book but not much on the family as I can read about is there but that account is .

Not even the Orthodox Jews see polygamy as acceptable fully .

 
How does one exactly date a new woman and not violate the adultery idea?
In our modern western world we define "adultery" according to certain egalitarian ideas. But in biblical definition, adultery is a woman having sex with someone other than her husband. It is NOT the other way around.

So in Matt 5 where our Lord said to look at a woman and lust/covet after her, she had to already be married to someone else for it to be adultery.
 
Not even the Orthodox Jews see polygamy as acceptable fully .
True. That is a rabbinic tradition, not a biblical one.
In the first century (NT times) it was very rare, and rabbinically allowed only for the very rich.
 
If it is a sin, then why did God command it?
Did God command polygamy?

Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. (ESV)

Mal 2:13 And this second thing you do. You cover the LORD's altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor from your hand.
Mal 2:14 But you say, “Why does he not?” Because the LORD was witness between you and the wife of your youth, to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.
Mal 2:15 Did he not make them one, with a portion of the Spirit in their union? And what was the one God seeking? Godly offspring. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and let none of you be faithless to the wife of your youth.
Mal 2:16 “For the man who does not love his wife but divorces her, says the LORD, the God of Israel, covers his garment with violence, says the LORD of hosts. So guard yourselves in your spirit, and do not be faithless.” (ESV)

Mat 19:4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
Mat 19:6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” (ESV)

All singular.

Mat 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” (ESV)

Notice that God says in Mal 2:16 that a man who divorces his wife "covers his garment with violence," but that Jesus states Moses allowed divorce "Because of your hardness of heart." More than that though, if a man divorces his wife "and marries another, commits adultery," then how much more if a man does not divorce his wife and marries another commits adultery.

Rom 7:2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.
Rom 7:3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. (ESV)

Again, singular, but also if a woman can't live with another man while her husband is alive, then neither can a man live with, much less marry, another woman while his wife is alive.

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”
1Co 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1Co 7:3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband.
1Co 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.
1Co 7:5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. (ESV)

Again, all singular, but also very clear that every married believer is to have only one spouse, consistent with Gen. 2:24.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
Eph 5:24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,
Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body.
Eph 5:31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (ESV)

Once again, singular in reference to one husband and one wife, but more than that--it is a direct parallel to Christ and the Church. Just look at the OT and God's anger with the Israelites for their spiritual adultery, going against the covenant.

Why did God give David Saul's wives as his own?
Regarding kings, Saul was in sin:

Deu 17:17 And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold. (ESV)

God probably commanded David to takes Saul's wives so that they weren't just turned out into the street and were taken care of. This is a special case and in no way supports polygamy. God allowed certain things due to the hardness of the Israelites' hearts, but not anymore:

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (ESV)

Polygamy in the Bible is descriptive, not prescriptive. Everything in Scripture is against polygamy and no one who claims the name of Christ should be appealing to special cases in the OT to justify polygamy. In the end, polygamy appeals to man's most base, fleshly desires rather than self-control (a fruit of the Spirit), which alone tells us that it is not of God.

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. (ESV)
 
In our modern western world we define "adultery" according to certain egalitarian ideas. But in biblical definition, adultery is a woman having sex with someone other than her husband. It is NOT the other way around.

So in Matt 5 where our Lord said to look at a woman and lust/covet after her, she had to already be married to someone else for it to be adultery.
It takes two .

I committed that sin and looking at porn .let's see that isn't sin?
Are they married women doing that .not likely .

It also says if a man lies with a other and neither are married that's forniciation


Do you really think that is gonna pass with my wife or pastors and jewry the polygamy was not common as much ,illegal in Rome .as rome thought it was vile ,strangely .

How on earth could one not look at not see desire and beauty in a woman ?

That is a lust . I will define this way.i found my wife attractive ,enough to talk to her . No let's be real .legs and parts are gonna get noticed .it's natural .one can't build a relationship on that and keep it but it's built in by God .

You are literally arguing that I could decide to practically put my wife in a house and neglect her as she has health issues and can't enjoy sex .

So I can find a younger wife to give me progeny ?
My wife can't have kids ,no uterus .

I have seen Muslims do that .they won't divorce but they will get more wives for children etc .

That's Gods plan

He gave Only one woman to eve to be his help meet not eve for this and another .

In divorce Jesus mentions only one man and wife .

In some cultures women can have more then one husband and not the other way around .that's common in tibet .

Nepal and other nations have it


I can't see God creating that and wanting that .

[/Quote]

He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts - It is dangerous to tolerate the least evil, though prudence itself may require it: because toleration, in this case, raises itself insensibly into permission, and permission soon sets up for command. Moses perceived that if divorce were not permitted, in many cases, the women would be exposed to great hardships through the cruelty of their husbands: for so the word σκληροκαρδια, is understood in this place by some learned men.

From the beginning it was not so - The Jews named the books of the law from the first word in each. Genesis they always term Bereshith, בראשית, which is the first word in it, and signifies, In the beginning. It is probable that our Lord speaks in this way here, In Bereshith it was not so, intimating that the account given in Genesis is widely different. There was no divorce between Eve and Adam; nor did he or his family practice polygamy. But our Lord, by the beginning, may mean the original intention or design.

[Quote \]

Adam Clarke on the Matthew 19 divorce statement by Jesus .from his commentary .



Tolerated it ,yes but it's seldom good .

It takes two.i can't commit adultery in my pastors and elders eyes if I as a married man have sex with a single women ?

No pastor would say that isnt adultery or tell my wife she couldnt divorce me .I know a married couple with the wife was cheating with a married army chaplain . They divorced after seeking counseling .
The elders of that church defrocked the chaplain and his wife left him .


I believe the church before woman's suffrage did call a married man having sex with a woman not married adultery .

I know army regs stated that as such long before don't ask don't tell and did at times punish that .

That was created in the ucmj in 1948
 
Deut. 25.
Read post #3 above for a description.
I see nothing in Deuteronomy 25 that even comes close to polygamy being commanded by God. It speaks about the wife of her husband that if he dies then one of his brothers that are single should marry her that her husbands name be not put out of Israel if the two of them have a child.

Deu 25:5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.
Deu 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
 
Gonna disagree because an married man per Jesus whose wife can fornicate all day and his wife can't divorce .
Not a sin
Fornication IS a sin, but it is NOT adultery. Adultery is worse, much worse.
And NO, not all sins are equal. Our Lord said that Himself.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”
 
Fornication IS a sin, but it is NOT adultery. Adultery is worse, much worse.
And NO, not all sins are equal. Our Lord said that Himself.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”
The penalty is the same.

Yet provocation a saint to sin .ue jealousy.

I quote a married polygamist who had two wives.

I want a young girl ,why ? Because of sex .they get kids and loose the desire .

That's ok with Jesus ?

Only men can choose a wife but a wife must only have one husband ?

A wife can fornicate and that's not a reason for divorce .

Try that and see what any respectful woman will do . divorce you quickly
 
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