Do preterists believe in Satan?

[Ed the Ned]

Sorry this is all new to me so I need to understand if the preterist viewpoint includes Satan and what does Revelation 20 vs 2 and 3 mean to them. I am just trying to understand your viewpoint.

 

[Matthew24:34]

Sorry this is all new to me so I need to understand if the preterist viewpoint includes Satan and what does Revelation 20 vs 2 and 3 mean to them. I am just trying to understand your viewpoint.

Greetings Ed the Ned: I believe there was a Satan who was the god of the world but that he was crushed and rendered impotent just as Paul taught. Speaking to his brethren, Paul said--"the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY" (Romans. 16:20).

Sadly, most people still cling to a belief that he is responsible for many of the woes in their lives and in the world. We, as horrible sinners bent on evil, need no outside help in this area!

Matthew24:34

 

[Vic C.]

Ned, the KJV, ASV, Darby, and even Young's literal use bruise, not crushed. The Gospel bruises Satan, but God destroys him in the end... THE REAL end, not the preterist's end.

But what do I know, I'm just a dishonest partial futurist who doesn't know any better. :D

 

[researcher]

<~~ Partial Preterist.
Yes, I believe Satan exists, a fallen archangel, god, whichever.

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The word "bruise" from Strong's

G4937
ÃÆ’Ã…νÄÃÂίβÉ
suntribÃ…Â
soon-tree'-bo
From G4862 and the base of G5147; to crush completely, that is, to shatter (literally or figuratively): - break (in pieces), broken to shivers (+ -hearted), bruise.

Crush is better imo. ;)

But as a partial pret, I believe Satan was let/will be let out. (personally I think he is out as we speak) ;) :D

 

[Matthew24:34]

Ned, the KJV, ASV, Darby, and even Young's literal use bruise, not crushed. The Gospel bruises Satan, but God destroys him in the end... THE REAL end, not the preterist's end.

But what do I know, I'm just a dishonest partial futurist who doesn't know any better. :D

And how did the Gospel "bruise" him SHORTLY, Vic C.? Again, the issue becomes the timing. If we understand that Paul is referring to a time in the near future and IF we will accept the timing of the book of the Revelation, we will see the connection between Romans 16:20 and Revelation 20. It was the casting into the lake of fire when Christ came in A. D. 70 that crushed Satan forever. This was after the symbolic 1000 years following which the New Covenant realities emerged triumphant over the Old Covenant types and shadows!

The real end is the preterist end which is the biblical end. Peter said "The end of all things is near" (1 Peter 4:7). Jesus said the Gospel would be preached in all the world (see Col. 1) and then the end would come. The Gospel WAS PREACHED in all the world. The end came, but not the end wrongly envisioned by futurists (and "partial" preterists are really partial futurists). It was the end of that which was even then during the writing of the book of Hebrews becoming obsolete, growing old and ready to pass away! Read Hebrews 8! The Old Covenant age was ending. Satan, who had deceived the nations in that the Gentiles were kept from the commonwealth of Israel, was crushed to never again deceive the nations. The Gospel went forth through all the world. The people of God were no longer contained in a nation but were dispersed throughout all the nations.

It is the wrong understanding of 2 Peter 3 that drives people to misunderstand the concept of "the end." There is no end of the world in some fiery judgment! That is not the meaning of stoicheia in 2 Peter 3. It was those ineffective, Old Covenant types and shadows that never brought salvation that were "burned up!" The end is the end of the AGE--that age--not the end of the world!

The sad thing, Vic C., is that you do know better. You ARE dishonest with the time statements, I am sorry to have to say. Whatever you want to make of what happened to Satan, it happened shortly in Paul's day!

Matthew24:34

 

[westtexas]

[quote="Vic C.":32lpk4km]Ned, the KJV, ASV, Darby, and even Young's literal use bruise, not crushed. The Gospel bruises Satan, but God destroys him in the end... THE REAL end, not the preterist's end.

But what do I know, I'm just a dishonest partial futurist who doesn't know any better. :D

And how did the Gospel "bruise" him SHORTLY, Vic C.? Again, the issue becomes the timing. If we understand that Paul is referring to a time in the near future and IF we will accept the timing of the book of the Revelation, we will see the connection between Romans 16:20 and Revelation 20. It was the casting into the lake of fire when Christ came in A. D. 70 that crushed Satan forever. This was after the symbolic 1000 years following which the New Covenant realities emerged triumphant over the Old Covenant types and shadows!

The real end is the preterist end which is the biblical end. Peter said "The end of all things is near" (1 Peter 4:7). Jesus said the Gospel would be preached in all the world (see Col. 1) and then the end would come. The Gospel WAS PREACHED in all the world. The end came, but not the end wrongly envisioned by futurists (and "partial" preterists are really partial futurists). It was the end of that which was even then during the writing of the book of Hebrews becoming obsolete, growing old and ready to pass away! Read Hebrews 8! The Old Covenant age was ending. Satan, who had deceived the nations in that the Gentiles were kept from the commonwealth of Israel, was crushed to never again deceive the nations. The Gospel went forth through all the world. The people of God were no longer contained in a nation but were dispersed throughout all the nations.

It is the wrong understanding of 2 Peter 3 that drives people to misunderstand the concept of "the end." There is no end of the world in some fiery judgment! That is not the meaning of stoicheia in 2 Peter 3. It was those ineffective, Old Covenant types and shadows that never brought salvation that were "burned up!" The end is the end of the AGE--that age--not the end of the world!

The sad thing, Vic C., is that you do know better. You ARE dishonest with the time statements, I am sorry to have to say. Whatever you want to make of what happened to Satan, it happened shortly in Paul's day!

Matthew24:34[/quote:32lpk4km]
Matthew24:34, I'D like to talk about your post above just a little bit. In all of your posts you assert that your timeline scriptures mean that SOON is SOON. However, in order to make this view work much of the rest of Scripture cannot be taken literally? Revelation 20 speaks of 1000 years-your post calls this period "symbolic"-Where does Scripture call this period symbolic? 2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens disappearing and the elements being destroyed but in order to make SOON mean SOON what Scripture should have written was the Old Covenant types will be destroyed? These are 2 examples in 1 post. Do you think that if we as simple men would say that maybe we don't understand SOON the same as our Lord Jesus does that maybe the rest of Scripture could be taken a little more literally? I just asked my 17 yr. old son what SOON meant and he said " I don't know Dad, I guess a couple of days" I pray he's right because our Lord Jesus is coming SOON.

Let me know what you think,
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[westtexas]

[quote="Ed the Ned":3ksr7cvn]Sorry this is all new to me so I need to understand if the preterist viewpoint includes Satan and what does Revelation 20 vs 2 and 3 mean to them. I am just trying to understand your viewpoint.

Greetings Ed the Ned: I believe there was a Satan who was the god of the world but that he was crushed and rendered impotent just as Paul taught. Speaking to his brethren, Paul said--"the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY" (Romans. 16:20).

Sadly, most people still cling to a belief that he is responsible for many of the woes in their lives and in the world. We, as horrible sinners bent on evil, need no outside help in this area!

Matthew24:34[/quote:3ksr7cvn]
Satan is dead???????

 

[parousia70]

Revelation 20 speaks of 1000 years-your post calls this period "symbolic"-Where does Scripture call this period symbolic? 2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens disappearing and the elements being destroyed

Hay Wes, Where is the 1000 years in 2 Peter 3?

 

[parousia70]

[quote="Ed the Ned":58pwv15i]Sorry this is all new to me so I need to understand if the preterist viewpoint includes Satan and what does Revelation 20 vs 2 and 3 mean to them. I am just trying to understand your viewpoint.

Greetings Ed the Ned: I believe there was a Satan who was the god of the world but that he was crushed and rendered impotent just as Paul taught. Speaking to his brethren, Paul said--"the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY" (Romans. 16:20).

Sadly, most people still cling to a belief that he is responsible for many of the woes in their lives and in the world. We, as horrible sinners bent on evil, need no outside help in this area!

Matthew24:34

Satan is dead???????[/quote:58pwv15i]

Dead or Alive, Satan is a Defeated foe who is POWERLESS today.

 

[westtexas]

Revelation 20 speaks of 1000 years-your post calls this period "symbolic"-Where does Scripture call this period symbolic? 2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens disappearing and the elements being destroyed

Hay Wes, Where is the 1000 years in 2 Peter 3?

It's not in 2Peter3, It's in Revelation 20--our brother Matthew24 called this period "symbolic"--where does Scripture say this ? I am sure that you read the rest of the question associated with this post. Please tell me what you think.

Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

edited because I can't spell

 

[Ed the Ned]

Thanks guys, I have read all you viewpoints, but still I am confused from the Preterist viewpoint, especially the comment from Matthew that Satan is crushed. In Revelations 20 vs 7 "and when the thousand years are expired Satan shall be loosed out of his prison" Surely this implies that there is a beginning and an end to the thousand years. Would this not conflict with the symbolic thousand years as discussed earlier? The last part of chapter 20 vs 14 to 15 "and death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosover was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" Did this happen in the first century? Chapter 21 starts me asking more questions. " and I sam a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth passed away; and there was no more sea. And I john saw the Holy city, new jerusalem , coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adhorned for her husband." It later goes on to say in verse 4 "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall their be more pain; for the former things are passed away, and he that sat upon the throne said, Behold I make all things new. And he said unto me Write: for these Words are true and faithful." What concerns me is there is still death and sorrow, if I understand God Word all that will come to an end. If it has already come to an end explain what is happening in the world today?
Do we remember the holocaust? Has not the suffering in the world increased?

 

[parousia70]

Revelation 20 speaks of 1000 years-your post calls this period "symbolic"-Where does Scripture call this period symbolic? 2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens disappearing and the elements being destroyed

Hay Wes, Where is the 1000 years in 2 Peter 3?

It's not in 2Peter3, It's in Revelation 20--our brother Matthew24 called this period "symbolic"--where does Scripture say this ? I am sure that you read the rest of the question associated with this post. Please tell me what you think.

Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

edited because I can't spell

The point is Wes, why does Peter omit it?

In Peter's account, the New Heavens and earth arrive at the very point of the Coming of Christ.
John inserts 1000 years between those two events.

Both can't be literal, can they?

 

[parousia70]

Thanks guys, I have read all you viewpoints, but still I am confused from the Preterist viewpoint, especially the comment from Matthew that Satan is crushed.

What power do you say Satan has today?

Can he prevent anyone from obtaining salvation by grace through faith?
Can he prevent anyone from choosing to have faith?

What other power does Satan have?

and I sam a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth passed away; and there was no more sea. And I john saw the Holy city, new jerusalem , coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adhorned for her husband." [/b]It later goes on to say in verse 4 [ "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;

Even tears of Joy?
Is the New heavens and earth some sort of Zoloft type existance where we will no longer be able to cry tears of joy???
Or tears of Laughter?
Really??

there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall their be more pain; for the former things are passed away, and he that sat upon the throne said, Behold I make all things new. And he said unto me Write: for these Words are true and faithful." What concerns me is there is still death and sorrow, if I understand God Word all that will come to an end.

How do you understand this:

Isaiah 65:17-23 NKJ
17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.

From this passage we know that in the New Heavens and Earth there will be:
Procreation
Ageing
Death,
Sinners.

How do you reconcile this clear teaching with your view that it can't be true?

 

[westtexas]

Thanks guys, I have read all you viewpoints, but still I am confused from the Preterist viewpoint, especially the comment from Matthew that Satan is crushed.

What power do you say Satan has today?

Can he prevent anyone from obtaining salvation by grace through faith?
Can he prevent anyone from choosing to have faith?

What other power does Satan have?

and I sam a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth passed away; and there was no more sea. And I john saw the Holy city, new jerusalem , coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adhorned for her husband." [/b]It later goes on to say in verse 4 [ "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;

Even tears of Joy?
Is the New heavens and earth some sort of Zoloft type existance where we will no longer be able to cry tears of joy???
Or tears of Laughter?
Really??

[quote:1p5iquxo]there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall their be more pain; for the former things are passed away, and he that sat upon the throne said, Behold I make all things new. And he said unto me Write: for these Words are true and faithful." What concerns me is there is still death and sorrow, if I understand God Word all that will come to an end.

How do you understand this:

Isaiah 65:17-23 NKJ
17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD,
And their offspring with them.

From this passage we know that in the New Heavens and Earth there will be:
Procreation
Ageing
Death,
Sinners

.

How do you reconcile this clear teaching with your view that it can't be true?[/quote:1p5iquxo]
Surely you jest, read Revelation 21.Verses 4 and 27 state there will be no more death and also that nothing impure will enter in. You really believe that there will be sin in the New Jerusalem??????????????????
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

 

[parousia70]

Surely you jest, read Revelation 21.Verses 4 and 27 state there will be no more death and also that nothing impure will enter in. You really believe that there will be sin in the New Jerusalem??????????????????
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas

I'm just pointing out what Isaiah said would be in the New Jerusalem:
Ageing: vs 65:20
Death: vs 65:20
Sinners: vs 65:20
Procreation: vs 65:23

If you don't believe Isaiah 65:17-23 then you can explain to us why.

 

[Matthew24:34]

[quote="Vic C.":30vkxbip]Ned, the KJV, ASV, Darby, and even Young's literal use bruise, not crushed. The Gospel bruises Satan, but God destroys him in the end... THE REAL end, not the preterist's end.

But what do I know, I'm just a dishonest partial futurist who doesn't know any better. :D

And how did the Gospel "bruise" him SHORTLY, Vic C.? Again, the issue becomes the timing. If we understand that Paul is referring to a time in the near future and IF we will accept the timing of the book of the Revelation, we will see the connection between Romans 16:20 and Revelation 20. It was the casting into the lake of fire when Christ came in A. D. 70 that crushed Satan forever. This was after the symbolic 1000 years following which the New Covenant realities emerged triumphant over the Old Covenant types and shadows!

The real end is the preterist end which is the biblical end. Peter said "The end of all things is near" (1 Peter 4:7). Jesus said the Gospel would be preached in all the world (see Col. 1) and then the end would come. The Gospel WAS PREACHED in all the world. The end came, but not the end wrongly envisioned by futurists (and "partial" preterists are really partial futurists). It was the end of that which was even then during the writing of the book of Hebrews becoming obsolete, growing old and ready to pass away! Read Hebrews 8! The Old Covenant age was ending. Satan, who had deceived the nations in that the Gentiles were kept from the commonwealth of Israel, was crushed to never again deceive the nations. The Gospel went forth through all the world. The people of God were no longer contained in a nation but were dispersed throughout all the nations.

It is the wrong understanding of 2 Peter 3 that drives people to misunderstand the concept of "the end." There is no end of the world in some fiery judgment! That is not the meaning of stoicheia in 2 Peter 3. It was those ineffective, Old Covenant types and shadows that never brought salvation that were "burned up!" The end is the end of the AGE--that age--not the end of the world!

The sad thing, Vic C., is that you do know better. You ARE dishonest with the time statements, I am sorry to have to say. Whatever you want to make of what happened to Satan, it happened shortly in Paul's day!

Matthew24:34

Matthew24:34, I'D like to talk about your post above just a little bit. In all of your posts you assert that your timeline scriptures mean that SOON is SOON. However, in order to make this view work much of the rest of Scripture cannot be taken literally? Revelation 20 speaks of 1000 years-your post calls this period "symbolic"-Where does Scripture call this period symbolic? 2 Peter 3 speaks of the heavens disappearing and the elements being destroyed but in order to make SOON mean SOON what Scripture should have written was the Old Covenant types will be destroyed? These are 2 examples in 1 post. Do you think that if we as simple men would say that maybe we don't understand SOON the same as our Lord Jesus does that maybe the rest of Scripture could be taken a little more literally? I just asked my 17 yr. old son what SOON meant and he said " I don't know Dad, I guess a couple of days" I pray he's right because our Lord Jesus is coming SOON.

Let me know what you think,
Your brother in Christ, Westtexas[/quote:30vkxbip]

Westtexas: Do you really not see that the term "soon" loses ALL of its significance and becomes totally nonsensical IF it does not refer to a short span of time. Even your son's response agrees more with me than it does with you! "A couple of days" still falls within the reasonable framework of "soon." Two thousand years does NOT! I don't know of one futurist who would not be upset and not think it totally unjustified and deceptive for someone to tell him that he is coming to visit soon, but he doesn't arrive for three years! Even futurists have a LIMIT on what they will allow "soon" to mean in their personal lives. In spite of that, they continue to preach "the Lord is coming soon!" Really.

What elements are to melt in 2 Peter 3, Westtexas? Have you done a study of that term. It is absolutely, positively never used in the NT of the chemical make up of the earth. Look up the text in which "elements" is used. It always refers to precepts or teachings. In Galatians 4, they are called the "weak and beggarly elements" (stoicheia). This is a reference to the Old Covenant legalism of the rites and ceremonies. Some of the Jews, while saved, wanted to return to those obsolete and impotent things. Paul warns the Colossians against being deceived by the "basic principles (stoicheia) of the world"--things not according to Christ (Col. 2).

The writer of Hebrews uses stoicheia to describe the "first principles of the oracles of God." That is its meaning in 2 Peter 3:10. The OT system of Judaism with it "weak and beggarly elements" along with the land (γη, ge--not kosmos) was to be burned up on the day of the Lord. This is the time Peter himself referred to when he clearly stated: "The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7). Surely, Peter himself did not have the end of the world or earth in mind here. The land of Israel, however, and the Temple (the embodiment of those weak and beggarly elements) were certainly burned up in A. D. 70!

As for the Millennium, let's begin by establishing what it is NOT! And let's remember that we are, after all, dealing with a highly symbolic writing in Revelation! We should NOT be surprised to find symbols and figurative language! I have looked and looked and I find NO mention in the Revelation of a "wolf dwelling with the lamb, and the lion eating straw like an ox" (Isa. 65; see also Isa. 11). There is no description of a child leading them and an infant living only a few days or the building of houses and the planting of vineyards! Where in the Revelation does Jesus say anything about the "rebuilding" of Jerusalem? There is mention in the NT of "the holy Jerusalem descending out of heaven" (20:10). The builder and maker of this Jerusalem is God (Heb. 11). It is this city for which Abraham and the other OT saints longed. They even dwelt in the land of promise as though they were foreigners. They saw the promise of the New Jerusalem, the city made by God which descended from heaven, afar off! (Heb. 11).

Jesus Himself NEVER spoke of an earthly government over which He would rule for a thousand years. Never! The entire futurist, dispensational concept of a millennial rule of Christ upon this earth comes from a misunderstanding of one passage--Revelation 20. In addition to Jesus, the NT writers taught nothing of a thousand-year reign of Christ! They taught only concerning an age that was then ending and an age which was about to come. Sadly, this futurist, false concept of a Millennium which demands physical fulfillments of spiritual realities has up until this point overtaken the Church. Thankfully, people are beginning to see the truth.

What is the Millennium then? It involves the binding of Satan, the reigning of the martyrs with Christ, the release of Satan to deceive the world, the dispensing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the judgment of the dead. Before even attempting to understand this book, the student of the Word must approach it as a book written by a Jew to a predominantly Jewish audience. As was common in the writings of the prophets of the OT, there is apocalyptic language in the Revelation. In such apocalyptic language of the OT prophets, one thousand is difficult if not impossible to be seen as representing a literal number. God does not own only the cattle on a thousand hills (Psa. 50:10). Samson did not actually slay a thousand men with the jawbone of a donkey (Judges 15:15). Did Saul literally slay "his thousands" and did David literally slay "his ten thousands" (1 Sam. 18:7). Not even in our present day of modern warfare does one man typically slay ten thousand! A study of the OT use of "thousand" is indispensable to understanding it in Revelation. There is no injury done to literalism in the taking of the thousand years as symbolically literal! In other words, there were literal years--nothing demands, especially not any OT precedent, that there actually be one thousand of them!

The disciples reigned on earth while Christ reigned in heaven (between approximately A. D. 30 to A. D. 70). Entrusted with the Gospel, they held the keys to the kingdom. During that time, Satan was bound and rendered ineffective. The disciples healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. During the reign of Nero and during the Jewish wars with Rome, Satan was "released." He deceived the nations of Rome into persecuting the saints and coming against the authority of Jews. Unwittingly, as he had done in the act of the crucifixion, Satan accomplished not his own will and victory but ultimately the will and victory of the One he hated, and the power of the holy people was forever shattered (Daniel 12, cf Dan. 8) in A. D. 70.

Matthew24:34

 

[parousia70]

What is the Millennium then? It involves the binding of Satan, the reigning of the martyrs with Christ, the release of Satan to deceive the world, the dispensing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the judgment of the dead..........The disciples reigned on earth while Christ reigned in heaven (between approximately A. D. 30 to A. D. 70). Entrusted with the Gospel, they held the keys to the kingdom. During that time, Satan was bound and rendered ineffective. The disciples healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. During the reign of Nero and during the Jewish wars with Rome, Satan was "released." He deceived the nations of Rome into persecuting the saints and coming against the authority of Jews. Unwittingly, as he had done in the act of the crucifixion, Satan accomplished not his own will and victory but ultimately the will and victory of the One he hated, and the power of the holy people was forever shattered (Daniel 12, cf Dan. 8) in A. D. 70.

Matthew24:34

And in that 40 year "Millennium", Christ restored, fulfilled and and completed the Davidic Monarchy. He accomplished what all previous Kings in the line had failed to do, from David to Christ. Which, interestingly, was a period of approximately 1000 years.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by parousia70
And in that 40 year "Millennium", Christ restored, fulfilled and and completed the Davidic Monarchy. He accomplished what all previous Kings in the line had failed to do, from David to Christ.

[quote:13bf5v7d]Originally posted by Matthew24:34
What is the Millennium then? It involves the binding of Satan, the reigning of the martyrs with Christ, the release of Satan to deceive the world, the dispensing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the judgment of the dead..........The disciples reigned on earth while Christ reigned in heaven (between approximately A. D. 30 to A. D. 70).

[/quote:13bf5v7d]


I don't think so guys. If the Millennium was this 40 year period as you say; spanning 30 AD to 70 AD in the first century - and if Satan was really cast into the lake of fire in A.D. 70; then he must have been bound in the first century leading up to 70 AD; no?

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years; And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Revelation 20:2,3)


He's bound during the Millennium guys. If Satan was bound during the Millennium (the first century in your eyes) we should expect to find some clear indications in Scripture that this was the case; should we not? But the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan was free during the 40-year period in the first century:

* "But Peter said, Ananias, Why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?" (Acts 5:3).

* "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).

* "Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us" (1 Thessalonians 2:18).

* "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5).

* "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Corinthians 2:11).

* "Because your adversary, the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

* "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world [Greek - kosmos] lieth in the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).

* "Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that that ye may be tried" (Revelation 2:10).

* "According to the prince of the power of the air, that now worketh in the children of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2).

* "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:20).

* "For some are already turned aside after Satan" (1 Timothy 5:15).

According to the Scriptures, Satan was NOT bound; but free during the first century, but we know from Revelation that Satan must be bound during the Millennium. Therefore, the Millennium cannot be during the first century. You are obviously mistaken.

 

[researcher]

Originally posted by parousia70
And in that 40 year "Millennium", Christ restored, fulfilled and and completed the Davidic Monarchy. He accomplished what all previous Kings in the line had failed to do, from David to Christ.

[quote:3d8jqz44]Originally posted by Matthew24:34
What is the Millennium then? It involves the binding of Satan, the reigning of the martyrs with Christ, the release of Satan to deceive the world, the dispensing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the judgment of the dead..........The disciples reigned on earth while Christ reigned in heaven (between approximately A. D. 30 to A. D. 70).

I don't think so guys. If the Millennium was this 40 year period as you say; spanning 30 AD to 70 AD in the first century - and if Satan was really cast into the lake of fire in A.D. 70; then he must have been bound in the first century leading up to 70 AD; no?

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years; And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season." (Revelation 20:2,3)


He's bound during the Millennium guys. If Satan was bound during the Millennium (the first century in your eyes) we should expect to find some clear indications in Scripture that this was the case; should we not? But the Scriptures clearly indicate that Satan was free during the 40-year period in the first century:

* "But Peter said, Ananias, Why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?" (Acts 5:3).

* "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).

* "Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us" (1 Thessalonians 2:18).

* "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5).

* "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Corinthians 2:11).

* "Because your adversary, the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Peter 5:8).

* "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world [Greek - kosmos] lieth in the wicked one" (1 John 5:19).

* "Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that that ye may be tried" (Revelation 2:10).

* "According to the prince of the power of the air, that now worketh in the children of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2).

* "Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (1 Timothy 1:20).

* "For some are already turned aside after Satan" (1 Timothy 5:15).

According to the Scriptures, Satan was NOT bound; but free during the first century, but we know from Revelation that Satan must be bound during the Millennium. Therefore, the Millennium cannot be during the first century. You are obviously mistaken.[/quote:3d8jqz44]

I'd have to agree with Osgiliath. Satan was definitely out during that period.

But Paul told the Romans in 50,
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle,
Rom 1:7 to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

And the word he used was more apt to be "crush." Paul told them God would crush Satan under their feet shortly. I think that happened in 70. The tares (sons of the devil) were in Jerusalem during that time. Most were probably killed as Jesus told them that they would be held accountable for the blood of the prophets in their time etc (Mat 23:35).

The sons of Satan (the tares) were like his arm. They persecuted and killed members of the church and the apostles, not to mention God's only begotten Son. That would have been a "crushing" in a sense to Satan.. having his offspring (sons) who did his bidding, killed.

At the moment I think that Satan was bound in or around 70AD. And the sin nature continued on. Were the other fallen angels bound also? Or did they continue on interfering in the affairs of man? Demonic spirits in man and the sin nature are definitely enough to account for evil throughout history, imo.

As a partial-pret, I think Satan was let out sometime this century, or even just recently. But that's just my opinion. How would I know? LOL. :D

I think Jesus has been reigning with the first century church over the nations, the 1000 years is symbolic for a long period of time, and, that we're close to the end of that time.

And if full-preterism is right, then, I guess I'm totally wrong. Although, full-preterism is kind of a hope killer imo. :\ I think only the OT prophecies concerning Jesus' coming and wrath were fulfilled, and that some of the references to Jerusalem/Israel are symbolic for the church or even people or a nation/nations.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Thus there will be disagreement between myself and our FP brothers. But, so be it. Until God shows the truth.

 

[Sinthesis]

What is the Millennium then? It involves the binding of Satan, the reigning of the martyrs with Christ, the release of Satan to deceive the world, the dispensing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the judgment of the dead..........The disciples reigned on earth while Christ reigned in heaven (between approximately A. D. 30 to A. D. 70). Entrusted with the Gospel, they held the keys to the kingdom. During that time, Satan was bound and rendered ineffective. The disciples healed the sick, cast out demons, etc. During the reign of Nero and during the Jewish wars with Rome, Satan was "released." He deceived the nations of Rome into persecuting the saints and coming against the authority of Jews. Unwittingly, as he had done in the act of the crucifixion, Satan accomplished not his own will and victory but ultimately the will and victory of the One he hated, and the power of the holy people was forever shattered (Daniel 12, cf Dan. 8) in A. D. 70.

Matthew24:34

Interesting idea Matthew24:34, even though I don't happen to agree. Is the 40 year "Millennium" a standard FP belief?

And in that 40 year "Millennium", Christ restored, fulfilled and and completed the Davidic Monarchy. He accomplished what all previous Kings in the line had failed to do, from David to Christ. Which, interestingly, was a period of approximately 1000 years.

Neat! 1000 years, Hmmm...
From David's death circa 970BC to Christ's crucifixion?
40yrs as one generation.
From Solomon's death circa 931BC to 70AD?