Do those believing in “grace only” fear the Lord?

[Senior]

Do those believing in “grace only without accountability”
fear the Lord?
Yes, they’re afraid they won’t get their fair share of rewards
in heaven! lol

The 2 reasons for obeying Jesus’ commandments
● LOVE ● In 4 different verses in John 14, Jesus said,
for example: “Those who accept My commandments
and obey them are the ones who love Me.” (John 14:21)
Is it possible for a person who does NOT love Jesus
to be allowed into heaven?
● FEAR ● “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

“But I will show you whom you should fear:
fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell;
yes, I say to you, fear Him!” (Luke 12:5)

“But in every nation he who venerates and has a reverential fear for God, treating Him with worshipful obedience and living uprightly (i.e. righteously), is acceptable to Him”
(Acts 10:35, AMPC)

“… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of
the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”
(2 Corinthians 7:1)

“… as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” … conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here
in fear” (1 Peter 1:15-17)

Yes, wise believers have more than a reverential fear of the Lord.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Proverbs 1:7, 9:10)

“And His mercy is on those who fear Him From generation to generation.” (Luke 1:50)

“And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit …” (Acts 9:31)

“There is none righteous, no, not one … There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18)

“Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare
the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
(Romans 11:20-21)

“… submitting to one another in the fear of God.”
(Ephesians 5:21)

“… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12)

“… let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.” (Hebrews 12:28-29)

“Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God.”
(1 Peter 2:17)

“… always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15)

“… You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, and those who fear Your name, small and great” (Revelation 11:18)

“Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come” (Revelation 14:7)

 

[Who Me]

Sorry, I have no idea what belief position you are talking about.
elaborate please.

 

[Senior]

Sorry, I have no idea what belief position you are talking about.
elaborate please.

Yes, the currently popular "grace only" doctrine says:
born-again believers are saved by grace PERIOD ...
and are NOT accountable at all to God for anything,
i.e. co-operation with the Holy Spirit, obedience to Jesus, etc.
in order to be saved (i.e. given eternal life upon death).

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Once in a philosophy logic class the teacher gave us a lesson against one logical fallacy. The weak man or straw man fallacy. The lesson to avoid this was simple. In a debate if you weaken the other's argument, you do no favors in your argument being able to win. But if you take their argument and take it at the strongest point, even to strengthen it more then the other person presents it, then if your argument is able to win, it is stronger all the more against the other philosophy.

Based on that here are the philosophies I've found so far.

On grace there are two strong philosophies.

•If we have to earn our salvation then there's no hope for any of us. There are even scripures that point to God saving us and calling us before we are aware of it, or try to follow Him.

•The second philosophy is a distinction between being saved, and having rewards in heaven. By grace we are saved, but by obedience we are rewarded sort of thing.

Both of these philosophies are something to fear God about, because in neither of them do we have any control. God calls us, God saves us. It's Him who chooses us and plots out our path, and only by Him are we saved or condemned. Fear God therefore because He knows how we will be before we are born, and He can choose you and reject your twin before you are even born, as God did for Jacob and Easu. He can even call you to be a king, but reject you for disobedience, making you an example for those around you and those who read about you. Just as God did for Israel's first king Saul, who God replaced with David.

In the same token though, it's by both of those philosophies of "grace only" that a person can have great confidence as well. If God is with you, who can be against you kind of thing. This is a weak spot where sin can creep in. And it is a weak spot regardless if a person believes they are saved by obedience or by grace. Because if we think God is with us, we often don't see our own errors, and our own sins. We might find out that God let us go so that we see our errors and return to Him, or so that others can see the consquences and be better for it.

 

[Senior]

NNS ...
Why did Father God give us free will?

IMO, it was to see which BACs would ...
CHOOSE to love Him, to follow Him, to obey Him, etc.

I.E. Some of God's chosen and called BACs
actually CHOOSE to disobey Him,
which He says indicates unbelief!

 

[Tessa]

Revelation 3: NKJV

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."

So some who had their names in the book of life will have them crossed out. Is that not enough reason to fear our Almighty Go?

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

NNS ...
Why did Father God give us free will?

IMO, it was to see which BACs would ...
CHOOSE to love Him, to follow Him, to obey Him, etc.

I.E. Some of God's chosen and called BACs
actually CHOOSE to disobey Him,
which He says indicates unbelief!

Look at Jacob's life. From it's beginnings to it's end. In the beginning while in his mother's womb, he and his brother faught. When being born he clung to his brother's heel, thus giving him his name which means to grasp at the heal, and is a reference to deception, which Jacob lives up to in his life 10 fold. Not only on taking his brother's birthright, but also in a battle of wits between his uncle and himself over being married, working for and earning a flock of his own, even to leave after so many years over extending the his stay but not really allowed to leave, Jacob left in secret and was chased down by his uncle and his family.

From the very beginning of Jacob's decisions to deceive and trick his way to success, his decisions came back to haunt him. Even to be there when he no longer made those decisions, one of his wives stoke an idol from her father Jacob's uncle when they fled in secret, and his own children faced deception over and over again. From a deception that was meant as vengance on a town where Jacob's daughter was raped, to 11 of his children lying about one of their brothers dying, when in anger and jealousy they sold their own brother to slave traders. If anything this loss is seen later in Jacob's life when they face famine, he sends his 11 sons out to Egypt to buy food, and he gives them special instruction to protect one of the brothers, Ben. The reason is because his wife Rachel was Ben's mother and the mother of the son he thought was dead.

If anything the very beginning of Jacob and Easu's struggle in the womb and their birth was a prophetic statement from God about the life of Jacob (named for grasping at the heal) and for the struggle between the two nations that came from Jacob and Esau. God knew Jacob before he was born. He knew Jacob's choices before he would fufil his namesake, and he knew the struggle between the two nations.

God chose Jacob. But that doesn't mean that God left Jacob's choices out of the equasion. Does that help with the dinstinction of being chosen but still having consquences?

The truth is that no one knows if God has chosen them or not unless God reveals that to them. There are too many oppurtunities for us all to fail, to turn away, and many actually do. If that isn't something to fear then I don't know what is.
________________________

..... All of that said, I don't know what to say about the debates regarding faith by grace, verses faith by obedience. Through the bible it's known that we need both. That if we don't turn back and repent God will turn from us. But also that we have all failed God and turned from Him. By His grace we are saved over and over again in the stories of the bible. His forgiveness, His mercy, and Him sending Jesus to be the ultimate price for our sins. What I can say is that the answers to the debate aren't in our philosophies and understanding of the issues, the answers are from study from the bible, or even from God a Himself if anyone has the chance to hear from God as prophets and Christians have done in the bibical past.

 

[Who Me]

Yes, the currently popular "grace only" doctrine says:
born-again believers are saved by grace PERIOD ...
and are NOT accountable at all to God for anything,
i.e. co-operation with the Holy Spirit, obedience to Jesus, etc.
in order to be saved (i.e. given eternal life upon death).

Never encountered just 'grace only'.
Lots of salvation through faith, not by works, but also a responcibility to live for Jesus.

 

[JLB]

Never encountered just 'grace only'.
Lots of salvation through faith, not by works, but also a responcibility to live for Jesus.

Amen


Welcome to the Forum.


God bless you.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, the currently popular "grace only" doctrine says:
born-again believers are saved by grace PERIOD ...
and are NOT accountable at all to God for anything,
i.e. co-operation with the Holy Spirit, obedience to Jesus, etc.
in order to be saved (i.e. given eternal life upon death).

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14


Many misunderstand the term “under grace”, thinking it means we have no obligation to walk in righteousness and obedience.


Under the law, simply means under obligation to obey the law.


So what does it mean to be “under grace”?


Under obligation to obey grace.


What is grace?


Grace is the God given ability to do what we can not do, without it; practice righteousness rather than practicing the works of the flesh, which is another name for sin.


IOW, grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.


Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29


again

• the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you. Titus 2:11-15


You won’t hear the hyper grace folks quoting these scriptures.


Understanding biblical words and terms, is the key to understanding sound doctrine.



Thank you, Senior for you work here on this Forum.


You are a blessing to us.



JLB

 

[Senior]

Revelation 3: NKJV
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels."
So some who had their names in the book of life will have them crossed out. Is that not enough reason to fear our Almighty Go?

Great point ... Thanks!

 

[Senior]

I don't know what to say about the debates regarding faith by grace, verses faith by obedience. Through the bible it's known that we need both.

Yes, we need both! Thanks for your thumbs up!

 

[Senior]

Never encountered just 'grace only'.
Lots of salvation through faith, not by works, but also a responcibility to live for Jesus.

Different current monikers may apply ...
easy grace, greasy grace, easy grace,
eternal security, OSAS, preservation of the saints, etc.
IMO, the NT teaches ...
True saving faith = deep heart-felt belief +
enduring faith + strong trust + obedience

And, I hope you are majoring in the NT, and not in the OT.

 

[williamt]

Fear of the Lord is received by Grace. It is a fruit of regeneration. Fear of the Lord is given by God in His timing: Jeremiah 32:40

Salvation is monergism. God provides everything (His works) necessary for salvation.

 

[Senior]

Thank you, JLB ... it is a great blessing to be appreciated.
Because, I do stand against almost all of today's churches,
which are teaching that the broad way will get you to heaven.

All of these "should be this", "should do that", etc.
are not perceived by many today as pertaining
to salvation, but to rewards.
But, these "should" verses simply confirm
all of the more explicit warning passages!

 

[Senior]

God provides everything (His works) necessary for salvation.

Sure, as long as the believer is willing to co-operate with
the precious Holy Spirit, who indwells the BAC.

And co-operate with Jesus, who said multiple times:
"If you love Me, you will obey My commandments."
Who gets to heaven who doesn't love Jesus?
"If you're My friend, you will obey My commandments."
Who gets to heaven who isn't Jesus' friend?

 

[williamt]

Sure, as long as the believer is willing to co-operate with
the precious Holy Spirit, who indwells the BAC.

They will, because they are regenerate. What you're pointing to is synergism which is taught by Roman Catholics. Salvation is Monergism.

Whatever you point to in yourself are your own works. If the work was initiated by God then that is monergism. Classical Protestant or Reformed Theology points to God's works in salvation. Even faith, confession, and repentance as well as stated, fear of the Lord are the fruits or works of the Holy Spirit (God) in the life of the Elect.

 

[Senior]

They will, because they are regenerate.

Then, why did God give us free will?
IMO, to see who would be obedient, etc.
We're only talking about BACs, right?
Those who were/are chosen and called.
No one else has any hope of anything!
IMO, this is another one of those "almost hidden"
spiritual facts (to benefit the babes in Christ).

 

[JLB]

They will, because they are regenerate. What you're pointing to is synergism which is taught by Roman Catholics. Salvation is Monergism.

Whatever you point to in yourself are your own works. If the work was initiated by God then that is monergism. Classical Protestant or Reformed Theology points to God's works in salvation. Even faith, confession, and repentance as well as stated, fear of the Lord are the fruits or works of the Holy Spirit (God) in the life of the Elect.

Could you define for us what you perceive to be monergism and synergism.



Here is how the Holy Spirit teaches we are born again; ie regenerated.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Here is how the Holy Spirit teaches we are to mortify the sinful expressions of the flesh.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


If, being a condition of us operating in harmony with the Spirit.



How do you see this?



Thanks JLB

 

[williamt]

Could you define for us what you perceive to be monergism and synergism.
Thanks JLB

My definitions as applicable to this thread:

Sure, Synergism is a cooperation between man and God. Man initiates or performs righteous works such as faith, confession and repentance etc and then God cooperates by granting man regeneration etc. In other words man must lift himself up heavenward and meet God half way as God only reaches down half way to mankind. This is the Roman Catholic view and the Ordo Salutis (order of salvation) is very similar to Arminianism. Such views are commonly held by works salvation or doctrines concerning performance based salvation.

In contrast, Monergism states that salvation is from God alone. If faith, confession, and repentance are necessary for salvation then God initiates it first and draws the recipient to himself. In contrast to R.C.C. and Arminian view the Ordo Sautis is quite different in what is known as Protestant and Reformed theology. For example:

“The Order of Salvation”

1. Election (God’s choice of people to be saved)
2. The gospel call (proclaiming the message of the gospel)
3. Regeneration (being born again)
4. Conversion (faith and repentance)
5. Justification (right legal standing)
6. Adoption (membership in God’s family)
7. Sanctification (right conduct of life)
8. Perseverance (remaining a Christian)
9. Death (going to be with the Lord)
10. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body)

Definitions by theopedia:

Synergism, in general, may be defined as two or more agents working together to produce a result not obtainable by any of the agents independently. The word synergy or synergism comes from two Greek words, erg meaning to work and syn meaning together, hence synergism is a "working together."

Monergism (Greek mono meaning "one" and erg meaning "work") is a term for the belief that the Holy Spirit is the only agent who effects regeneration of Christians. This view, held by Reformed and Calvinistic groups, sees salvation as the work of God alone, from first to last. He has chosen in eternity past whom He will save out of lost humanity (often referred to as the elect), and in His timing He will bring the elect to faith through the work of the Spirit for the sake of the Son, and save them forever to the praise of His glorious grace (Romans 8:29f). This is opposed to the synergistic view as held by Arminianism and its theological predecessor Semi-Pelagianism (Roman Catholicism) where salvation is seen as a cooperative effort between God and man.

Quoting John Hendryx, "Monergism simply means that it is God who gives ears to hear and eyes to see. It is God alone who gives illumination and understanding of His word that we might believe; It is God who raises us from the dead, who circumcises the heart; unplugs our ears; It is God alone who can give us a new sense that we may, at last, have the moral capacity to behold His beauty and unsurpassed excellency."

Only one of the above rightly proclaims Soli Deo Gloria (monergism). Synergism tries to distribute the works of God in salvation to those saints before us, the believer, and God.