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Do those believing in “grace only” fear the Lord?

Sure, Synergism is a cooperation between man and God. Man initiates or performs righteous works such as faith, confession and repentance etc and then God cooperates by granting man regeneration etc. In other words man must lift himself up heavenward and meet God half way as God only reaches down half way to mankind.

It seems as if your view is not partial to Synergism, as you tend to embellish or slant what it means for man to operate by the power of grace.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


To me Synergism is man operating by the grace (power) of God to accomplish what he could without it.


Man is given the grace first, then he is now empowered by that grace to operate in faith.


JLB
 
Election (God’s choice of people to be saved)

This is the easy part that we all should agree upon, for we all know it’s not God’s will that any should perish... For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9



JLB
 
It seems as if your view is not partial to Synergism, as you tend to embellish or slant what it means for man to operate by the power of grace.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


To me Synergism is man operating by the grace (power) of God to accomplish what he could without it.


Man is given the grace first, then he is now empowered by that grace to operate in faith.


JLB

I listed a proper theological definition from theopedia and can provide more from credible sources.

And to suggest that my view is not partial to synergism is an understatement. That's like saying that there's only a minor difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Theological discernment is knowing what is almost right and what is right.

Let's examine the rank heretics and apostates that adhere to Synergism: All Pelagian and Semi Pelagian bodies, Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and Arminians. Basically, everyone that follows Semi-Pelgainism or Arminianism in soteriology. They all have a common denominator which separates them from strict Protestants (Lutheran) and Reformed (Presbyterians). And that common denominator is works righteousness.

Now lemme back up a bit. Who is he? Man or God?

"To me Synergism is man operating by the grace (power) of God to accomplish what he could without it. "

Surely you don't believe that man can accomplish salvation without God? And surely you don't believe that God cannot accomplish salvation without man's cooperation? If you reject to the latter then that should lead to dialogue about the theological meaning of the term regeneration and what Jesus meant when He said one cannot see or enter heaven without God's monergistic work of regeneration let alone approach the object of faith Christ Jesus.

Man is incapable of first choosing God (synergism) without being regenerated. Why? Because they are enslaved to Sin.

  • John 8:34 - Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin."
  • 2 Peter 2:19 - They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.
  • Titus 3:3 - For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.
  • Galatians 4:8-9 - Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more?
  • Romans 6:6,16,17,19,20 - We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey...? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed... For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
  • Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.
  • 2 Timothy 2:25-26 - God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
The natural unregenerate man doesn't desire God nor seek Him.
  • Psalm 14:3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is none who does good, not even one.
  • Romans 3:9-11 “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands no one seeks for God.
  • John 3:20 - "For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed."
  • Romans 8:7-8 - For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God
  • Colossians 1:21 - And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds.
The natural man's desires are perverted:

  • Romans 1:24-27 - Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
  • Ephesians 2:3 - we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
  • Proverbs 21:10 - The soul of the wicked desires evil
  • John 3:19 - And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
  • John 8:44 - "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires."
  • Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
  • Romans 7:18 - For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh.
  • Isaiah 1:5-6 - The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but bruises and sores and raw wounds; they are not pressed out or bound up or softened with oil.
The natural man cannot turn away from sin and to God first or by himself for that act in itself would be righteous and there would be no need of Christ Jesus:

  • Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.
  • 1 Samuel 24:13 - "As the proverb of the ancients says, 'Out of the wicked comes wickedness.'"
  • Matthew 7:18 - "A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit." (c.f. Luke 6:43)
  • Matthew 12:34-35 - "How can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The good person out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure brings forth evil."
  • Romans 8:7 - For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.
  • Genesis 6:5 & 8:21 - The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually... from youth.
  • Titus 1:15-16 - to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
God must initiate salvation. He (God) who began a good work shall bring it to completion. This should bring an appropriate response to praise, glorify, and enjoy God.

Why is it so difficult for people just to proclaim Soli Deo Gloria? Christianity is supposed to be an exclusive religion that is separated from others in that works are required in all other religions but Christianity for salvation.
 
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Then, why did God give us free will?
IMO, to see who would be obedient, etc.
We're only talking about BACs, right?
Those who were/are chosen and called.
No one else has any hope of anything!
IMO, this is another one of those "almost hidden"
spiritual facts (to benefit the babes in Christ).

Define free will. If you simply mean choice then yes you have a choice and you'll be held accountable and responsible for your decision. However, if you mean that free will is an autonomous or libertarian will then that should be rejected. Man is a slave to sin by nature and is incapable (with emphasis) of the righteous standard set by God in the Law.

The only place an autonomous or libertarian will is even mentioned in Scripture is from the forked tongue of the serpent. To teach such doctrine is to teach the doctrine of devils.
 
This is the easy part that we all should agree upon, for we all know it’s not God’s will that any should perish... For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9



JLB

No doubt, none of the Elect in the world (from every tribe, tongue and nation) shall perish. It is why we are still here.
 
Everyone wants to talk about salvation by grace. Yeah we have to have grace or we would never have a chance, because we all fall short of the glory of God.

Then you have people who say we shouldn't do anything once we know Jesus, that we can't work our way to heaven.

These both are needed to have any relationship with God. Everyone wants to pull up the Ephesians 2:9 verse that says "not by works that no man should boast". Think what Paul is saying. He is saying, "that nothing we did up to the point that we started following Christ was good enough for God to try and save us". So, if you go to the next verse it says "that we are saved to do good works". So we can not just sit on our butts and expect God to be like ok, "you said a prayer and didn't move a muscle for the rest of your life, come on in".

Mathew 16:27 Jesus himself tells us, "he is going to repay us for the things we have done". So call it what you want works, doing something, loving, helping others, being obedient, or whatever you want to call. There has to be action to be walking with God, love is an action itself.

Think of what God says to the people who he lets into his glorious Kingdom. He says, "Well done my good and faithful servant".

What is a servant? Someone who serves. Tell me, how you serve with doing anything?:amen

Hope this finds you well
 
Man is incapable of first choosing God (synergism) without being regenerated. Why? Because they are enslaved to Sin.
I had this conversation recently with 2 married ex-pastors
(of 44 years). They countered my allegations of ...
Man is totally unable to believe in Jesus and the gospel because:
(1) he is enslaved by his inherited sin nature,
and (2) he is enslaved by Satan

... with ...
God frees a person (blocks the above momentarily) to give a person the chance to believe and accept the gospel message.
 
Yes, we need both! Thanks for your thumbs up!

I feel likr the disputes over grace versus obedience, faith versus acts, are disputes that tries to divide up the scriptures and divide up Christians. Instead of to try and study the scriptures for how they both fit together.

Regarding the critism of the doctrine of greasy grace, cheap grace, or easy grace; I don't think those are the ideals that the people believing in who believe in things like OSAS, and eternal salvation. In fact I doubt that those that strongly believe in the ideals of eternal salvation are people who believe in grace as it's usually presented when it's called "cheep."

The one critism I would have isn't do much on what it means to have Grace. But instead what it means to believe in God, and believe on Him. Faith has become such a fickle term in my opinion, that what it means to trust God, and be faithful to Him, seems to have lost much of it's strength. But God's grace isn't earned in the way that it's debated. It really is a free gift. It's something to hope on when we fail, because we do fail. Turn back to God and repent should always part of it all, but also should be the story of Jesus coming to save the lost, the sinner, the poor and the corrupt. He came for all of those who could not save themselves, and healed both the rich and the poor.

The debate of grace verses obedience (from what I've seen) exergrates both sides what it means to be under God's grace, and what it means to be obedient to Him. The opposing side being the one who exergrates the other's position.

Is that observation something no one else has noticed? Or is it wrong?
 
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


No doubt, none of the Elect in the world (from every tribe, tongue and nation) shall perish. It is why we are still here.
Some years ago, I saw that all of the "whoevers"
had been enabled by God to believe.
John 3:16 remains a true statement, doesn't it.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...
what does all of this have to do with FEAR of God?
IMO, it should have been a new thread.
 
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I had this conversation recently with 2 married ex-pastors
(of 44 years). They countered my allegations of ...
Man is totally unable to believe in Jesus and the gospel because:
(1) he is enslaved by his inherited sin nature,
and (2) he is enslaved by Satan

... with ...
God frees a person (blocks the above momentarily) to give a person the chance to believe and accept the gospel message.
I agree, if you are obey Jesus, then you are a slave to him. Praise God, that he has given us a chance to be a slave. Mathew 6:24 "can not serve two masers, you can not work for both God and mammon (money and the things is buys)". We must choose who we are serving.
 
Think of what God says to the people who he lets into his glorious Kingdom.
He says, "Well done my good and faithful servant".
What is a servant? Someone who serves. Tell me, how you serve with doing anything?
Tell me, how you serve God without doing anything?
 
I feel likr the disputes over grace versus obedience, faith versus acts, are disputes that tries to divide up the scriptures and divide up Christians. Instead of to try and study the scriptures for how they both fit together.

Regarding the critism of the doctrine of greasy grace, cheap grace, or easy grace; I don't think those are the ideals that the people believing in who believe in things like OSAS, and eternal salvation. In fact I doubt that those that strongly believe in the ideals of eternal salvation are people who believe in grace as it's usually presented when it's called "cheep."

The one critism I would have isn't do much on what it means to have Grace. But instead what it means to believe in God, and believe on Him. Faith has become such a fickle term in my opinion, that what it means to trust God, and be faithful to Him, seems to have lost much of it's strength. But God's grace isn't earned in the way that it's debated. It really is a free gift. It's something to hope on when we fail, because we do fail. Turn back to God and repent should always part of it all, but also should be the story of Jesus coming to save the lost, the sinner, the poor and the corrupt. He came for all of those who could not save themselves, and healed both the rich and the poor.

The debate of grace verses obedience (from what I've seen) exergrates both sides what it means to be under God's grace, and what it means to be obedient to Him. The opposing side being the one who exergrates the other's position.

Is that observation something no one else has noticed? Or is it wrong?
I have one remark on this, it's on the word faith. Faith means that what ever you are believing in, that you believe it is going to happen. I have Faith in Jesus, that means to me, that I believe what he said, and what he asks us to do. I believe that the things he taught will end up making my life better, no matter how hard or easy they are. It's like if i was driving a bus. You have never seen me or the bus, but still you pay the fare and get on and ride. You have faith that the bus is going to get you where you are going, and you have faith that I can drive the bus to get you where you are going. If you didn't have faith you would of never got on.

Peace and happiness
 
Define free will. If you simply mean choice then yes you have a choice and you'll be held accountable and responsible for your decision. However, if you mean that free will is an autonomous or libertarian will then that should be rejected. Man is a slave to sin by nature and is incapable (with emphasis) of the righteous standard set by God in the Law.

The only place an autonomous or libertarian will is even mentioned in Scripture is from the forked tongue of the serpent. To teach such doctrine is to teach the doctrine of devils.


Woah. Back up there a step or two sir. Before going forward in this battle of doctrines, can so ask a hopefully sobering question?

What does the bible have to say on this matter?

Lets go back to the texts before going into full blown accusations of satan and doctrines of evil.

There are several places tgat say to repent and turn to God. That sounds like something that would mean we have an active choice and must choose.
 
Yes, the currently popular "grace only" doctrine says:
born-again believers are saved by grace PERIOD ...
and are NOT accountable at all to God for anything,
not sure what drawer you pulled that out of. but we are held accountable and yes we are saved by Grace and Grace alone Through faith
 
where do you find this teaching ? i would like to see it written proof
Bro', I explained once before to you ...
... from evangelists returning from visiting churches
... from God's messages to His prophets/watchmen
(an excerpt from one of these messages follows:
"shepherds leading multitudes to hell")
 
Woah. Back up there a step or two sir. Before going forward in this battle of doctrines, can so ask a hopefully sobering question?

What does the bible have to say on this matter?

Lets go back to the texts before going into full blown accusations of satan and doctrines of evil.

There are several places tgat say to repent and turn to God. That sounds like something that would mean we have an active choice and must choose.

I firmly stand by my position. The doctrine of the devil is found in Genesis 3:5: when Satan, disguised as a serpent, said to Eve, “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” Here are the double lies being offered to Eve springing out of the same principle behind his botched coup attempt; first, that she would be like gods, and thus independent, able to rule over herself apart from God, and secondly, there is not one God, but many gods; each is sovereign over himself or herself.

That's an autonomous and/or libertarian will. What you're referring to is simply a choice and a decision from which will be held to the person for making. You have to deal with all the Scriptures I previously listed and prove that there is an autonomous or libertarian will other than from the devil. There is no doubt that choices are given if that's what you mean by free will, and there's no doubt that a free will offering is also given in Scripture (one not compelled by the law), but you'll not find an autonomous or libertarian will other than in Genesis 3:5.

Now whose going to contend for the truth of the devil's lies?
 
A good tree will bear good fruit. What is bearing? It's an action. Praise God for actions.

Right, you have as much say of bearing fruit as a good tree has in 1 Corinthians 3:6.

If the Holy Spirit indwells a man then the Spirit will bear good fruit.

All glory belongs to God alone!
 
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