Do we receive the Holy Ghost upon baptism?

[Aero_Hudson]

Thanks Cornelious!

Definitely getting baptized for more than getting wet. I truly have accepted Christ as my savior and want to live my life based on God's will. Since I don't remember my first baptism and I did not know what it meant at the time and feel like I have not truly given myself to God and Christ in this way. I want to affirm and experience that!

 

[micaela]

Dude you gotta be kidding,,,,you think that is the holy spirit?????

its the oddest thing.
Ive taken enough foreign language classes to be able to even listen to languages I have never studied and be able to pick up on structure in just about any language Ive heard...but for some reason what these folks call 'tongues' never seem to have any rhyme or reason to them...just blabbering most of the time and if there is any 'structure' its usually a repetition of the same "phrases" over and over.

I had a pastor in the late 90s speak in 'tongues', then conveniently he translated for himself (typical for this type).
Well, it was really weird because he went on in tongues for 5 minutes or so and it wasnt hard to hear the repetition of certain phrases over and over in the 'tongues'. But in his translation there was no repetition at all...not once.

If a person speaking in tongues keeps saying "erga frappa goo' over and over youd THINK that when translated if it meant "wheres my sandwich" that the translation would repeat that a few times ;)

I guess the masses dont pay much attention so they are oooh'ed and aaah'ed at just about anything.

True, when the Holy Spirit was given to the disciples of Jesus some of them had the ability to speak in other tongues. not jibberish or blabbering but actual other languages. This gift was given to them so that they may spread the gospel to people of other regions.
What good is to speak in a tongue that no one can understand? That's just silly.

 

[dadof10]

I was baptised at a very young age, young enough that I do not remember it. Since that time, I fell apart from God after my father's death and other difficult events in my life. 20 years later, I have found faith, God and Christ and I am planning on getting baptized this month. I feel that my initial baptism, since I had no idea what it meant and I truly did not understand what Christianity was all about, was invalid.

Thoughts on me getting baptized this month and whether or not the first was valid or not?

For a baptism to be valid, it must be done with water and "in the name of ..." the Trinity, not in Jesus name only. If yours fulfilled both of these requirements, you were validly baptized. Notice I didn't mention "and you must remember it", or "and you must know what it means". :P

Baptism is all Grace, which is why it is actually sinful to deny baptism until the age of reason. It seems to me that if you believe that valid baptism does save a soul in a real way, you would believe that, even if it was done "at a young age", it has salvific power. The Sacrament does not draw it's power from the receiver of the Sacrament, it is the Grace of God alone that saves.

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks Cornelious!

Definitely getting baptized for more than getting wet. I truly have accepted Christ as my savior and want to live my life based on God's will. Since I don't remember my first baptism and I did not know what it meant at the time and feel like I have not truly given myself to God and Christ in this way. I want to affirm and experience that!

Nothing wrong with affirming the experience.

The problem comes with denying the work of God, truly a gift, during your baptism as a young child. God's freely given gift does not require "x" amount of faith or "acceptance of Jesus as my Lord". Naturally, we are called to respond, in time, but we should not question what God has done to us through the act of our parents and the church. Think of your infant baptism as a seed planted by God that is now germinating...

Regards

 

[dadof10]

Nothing wrong with affirming the experience.

The problem comes with denying the work of God, truly a gift, during your baptism as a young child. God's freely given gift does not require "x" amount of faith or "acceptance of Jesus as my Lord". Naturally, we are called to respond, in time, but we should not question what God has done to us through the act of our parents and the church. Think of your infant baptism as a seed planted by God that is now germinating...

Regards

Yeah, that's what I said above...

Just not even close to as eloquently, thanks Joe.

 

[Elf]

The thief on the cross next to Jesus was not Baptized and Jesus told today you shall be in paradise.

Yes Benoni, your right and I agree.

I didn't say it was not possible to be saved without baptism, only that water baptism saves. I agree with Peter.

Actually if you agreed with Peter you wouldn't believe water baptism saves.

The thief on the cross was an extreme example, not the norm.

There are no extreme examples in scripture to be saved, scripture teaches only one way, through Christ. I noticed with RC's there can be a few ways, whatever meets the occasion.

Protestantism errs in taking specific examples (like a man presumably hours or minutes from certain death) and attempting to make them examples that cover EVERYONE in every situation.

That's your opinion, but, in some (certain) situations your correct.

It's obvious that Peter is equating water baptism with salvation, do you think he meant what he wrote?

I absolutely agree Peter meant what he wrote, but, do you understand the context?

 

[Elf]

Baptism is not a part of salvation, Only an outward sign of our inward decision, so I would say we receive the Holy Spirit when we first believe.

The jailer was told, believe on the Lord Jesus CHrist, and thou shalt be saved.....when we are saved, we are sealed. :P I believe.

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. (1Peter (RSV) 3)

Looks like Peter disagrees with you. Water Baptism is a part of salvation. :yes

There is no need to get involved with a drawn out discussion here, Peter's meaning is pretty obvious in just a few words.

1 Peter 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

It is obvious what Peter means when he mentions baptism here, which is not water baptism, which of itself has no efficacy for the soul. But the inward baptism, of washing wrought by the power of the Holy Spirit, whereby the believers conscience is in such manner eased (The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16), acquitted and purified.
Notice it says: not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience

Just as Noah was saved by means of the Ark, which Peter wrote for a figure of believers, as Through the resurrection of Christ having come out of the abyss of death, draws His members after Him into everlasting life.

Whether a Roman Catholic or a Protestant, if you believe Peter is speaking of water baptism here, you are missing out on so much. There is so much hidden in this passage and if we close our minds to the truth we miss it all.

 

[Sparkey]

Is there a difference between being immersed and being sprinkled?
What is "rantism"? Is this a proper Greek word? Can one be "rantized"?

Do we have any scriptural evidence of sprinkling babies in the bible?
Did John the Baptist do it?
Did any of the Apostles of the Lamb sprinkle babies?
Are there any Old Testament allegories that point to the sprinkling of babies?

Can we agree that the word "baptism" itself has a specific meaning?
If words have meaning what does the word "baptism" mean?
Can we come up with a simple definition here? One that all believers can cling to?

Please?

 

[duval]

If one is baptized as the Bible teaches then according to Acts 2:38 one does receive the Holy Spirit when baptized.

God bless,
duval

 

[Sparkey]

If one is baptized as the Bible teaches then according to Acts 2:38 one does receive the Holy Spirit when baptized.

God bless,
duval

Eze 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

• [list:3hj1hi2d]<the thought, "ye shall receive no more reproach" is speaking about the future>

[/list:u:3hj1hi2d]

Dan 2:6 But if ye shew the dream, and the interpretation thereof, ye shall receive of me gifts and rewards and great honour: therefore shew me the dream, and the interpretation thereof.

• [list:3hj1hi2d]<"receiving gifts and honor" spoken of here is also speaking of the future>

[/list:u:3hj1hi2d]

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

• [list:3hj1hi2d]<The "all things" that we are asking for are what we SHALL receive>

[/list:u:3hj1hi2d]

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

• [list:3hj1hi2d]<Again, not something that they "receive" immediately and apart from their future>

[/list:u:3hj1hi2d]

Jhn 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

• [list:3hj1hi2d]<you get the idea>

[/list:u:3hj1hi2d]

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

 

[duval]

Hi Sparrowhawk

Not sure what your point is in your response to mine.

God bless,
duval

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrowhawk

Not sure what your point is in your response to mine.

God bless,
duval

Hi duval! Greetings!

Just using the same "tense" of the phrase "ye shall receive" as the bible uses it. That's all. Thanks for the blessing!

~Sparrowhawke

 

[duval]

Hi Sparrowhawke

Do I understand you correctly that one who is scripturally baptized will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in some future time?

Just wondering.
God bless,
duval

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrowhawke

Do I understand you correctly that one who is scripturally baptized will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit in some future time?

Just wondering.
God bless,
duval

The basic mistake that I see you making is trying to understand "me" -- what does that matter? Seriously, we must needs seek to understand the Bible. I'm not any better at this than anyone who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit and can rightly say that they are before the Lord day and night seeking the truth.

I'm not much of a scholar and in fact have not even graduated High School (I got my G.E.D. when I was 50 years old) - I have taken a couple university level classes in Greek and Hebrew (and also High School French and Latin if that matters) and just wanted to bring examples of the word "receive" that would indicate the Future Indicative tense. http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria="ye+shall+receive"&t=KJV

I'd like to do a full bible study on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit but this forum isn't really set up for it IMHO. So to me it's okay for me to do some research and allow others to pray about the Holy Writ before coming to their independent conclusions. The Holy Spirit is our Teacher and Comforter too so this shouldn't present too much of a challenge.

~Sparrowhawke

Seriously, I'm an idiot. I just wanted to brew a cup of coffee and forgot to put the coffee pot under the brew station - so the coffee poured out onto the countertop and drenched my paper towels and I squeezed out the towel roll into a cup so that I could have my coffee. It is foolish for me to say, "Follow God, not me," because it is sooo obvious. :rolling

 

[duval]

Hi Sparrodwhawke

All I wanted was to understand what you understood the Bible to teach on the subject.

Thanks,
duval

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrodwhawke

All I wanted was to understand what you understood the Bible to teach on the subject.

Thanks,
duval

You seem to be very persistent duval, and I would commend you on that. Allow me to greet you with the same persistence. When you say, "All I wanted..." you are again assuming that I am able to teach you what I understand. I must really insist that my understanding is not gained from men. According to the Word of God, The Holy Spirit will teach you all things.

 

[duval]

Hi Sparrowhawke

I have often observed that what one person says the Holy Spirit taught them differs from what someone claims the Holy Spirit taught them on the same subject. Thats what I find hard to understand.

God bless,
duval

 

[follower of Christ]

Hi Sparrowhawke

I have often observed that what one person says the Holy Spirit taught them differs from what someone claims the Holy Spirit taught them on the same subject. Thats what I find hard to understand.

God bless,
duval

One of two things is typically occurring.

1. The man IS being taught by the Spirit, but it may only be something that relates to HIM personally. Instead of understanding it that way because it may not be something for everyone else, he will try to push it onto everyone else as gospel truth when its not for everyone else.
Wine, for example. Its not prohibited in Gods word, but for a man like John the Baptist it would seem to have been.
Some men today may get personal directoin from the Spirit to not touch wine...and for them it is what they should obey. But they come into error when they start preaching it to everyone else and distorting scripture to do so.
If theyd STUDY to know what Gods word SAYS, then this would help them discern if any particular instruction from the Spirit is for them alone or not.

2. One man or neither men are speaking from anything but their own vain imagination. OT "prophets" got into all sorts of trouble for speaking for 'god' when God had not said a word to them at all.

 

[Sparkey]

Hi Sparrowhawke

I have often observed that what one person says the Holy Spirit taught them differs from what someone claims the Holy Spirit taught them on the same subject. Thats what I find hard to understand.

God bless,
duval

And that is why I would refrain from stating directly what "I think". Again, it does not matter what I personally think. Let us agree to allow God to be true and every man a liar. There are 9 examples of the Future Indicative Tense for the word translated as "ye shall receive" according to the BLB (Blue Letter Bible). I cited all (including Acts 2:38 which you quoted) and left none out.

Here's the reference link for your future prayerful consideration:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria="ye+shall+receive"&t=KJV
If my understanding is correct, the word "λαμβάνÉ lambanÃ…Â [translated receive] is used 248 times in total, but is only used 9 times in the future indicative tense (ye shall receive).

Hope that helps.
For your convenience here is the link to the reply on the previous page of this thread:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39291&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=60#p482322

~Sparrowhawke

 

[duval]

Hi Sparrowhawke

ALL I have been asking for is WHAT the Holy Spirit taught YOU about "and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:38. Do we receive it whan scripturallly baptized or at some yet FUTURE time after being baptized?

Hope that clarifies.
God bless.
duval