Do we receive whatever things we ask in prayer, believing?

[Deborah13]

There has been a couple of times when I prayed for something and I have been glad God did not answer that prayer. In time, He gave me something better. One time it was a better job making quite a bit more money.

I'm fairly open to having misunderstood your words, but based on the way you've expressed it here, it looks pretty consistent with my comment that you were praying for a job "making better money".

One time when I prayed for something [a particular job] He gave me a better job making more money than the job I had been praying for. God did not give me the job I had been praying for, He gave me a better one. The job I had been praying for paid X amount of dollars, the one He gave me paid X + amount of dollars than the one I had been praying for.
Do you understand now?

 

[Deborah13]

If that's the case then I think the spirit of my comment is still consistent with what you shared about praying for the job. In the end it really doesn't matter whether the prayer was for "this" much money or "that" much money. The point is that you've interpreted the circumstances surrounding the job as not only God wanting you to work for mammon, but rather more mammon than what you had previously been content to work for.

Please address the 1 Tim. scripture.
1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Then address, not Paul making tents, but Priscilla and Aquila making tents. Do you believe that this was their occupation, their job, that they worked at in order to make a living?
If you can't explain these scriptures in a reasonable way than the whole rest of you teaching on loving mammon more than God, makes absolutely no sense in connection with working a job for a living or not.

 

[Brother Mike]

I'm not commenting on what Deb meant or didn't mean but the point you make of praying for or simply wanting to make more money in a job not being consistent with what Jesus wants.


Can you please explain why Jesus would not want us to make more money than we do?

I have to agree with the question at least. Why would Jesus not want us extremely wealthy?

 

[The_Epsicle]

(Post removed. A&T guidelines state: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah.)

 

[Kenny_ms]

(Post deleted, A&T guidelines: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah)

 

[john darling]

Hi WIP,

There's a bit under the "continuous innovation and improvement" bubble which says, "we challenge the status quo". I'm curious to hear what that means in practical terms.

Also, my comments are based on a general principle for all Christians. I usually feel a little uncomfortable when people use their personal lives as an example, because it means if I disagree (and sometimes disagree strongly) with their position, there's a chance that they will take my comments personally. In this case, even if you had raised this example as a hypothetical I think my comments would be the same.

You work in a job where it's understood that preaching by the employees is acceptable. I still don't see that as consistent with what Jesus was saying about God and mammon because it's not just cheating one employer. There are two. One half of the equation is represented by cheating the worldly employer when we try to preach the gospel on the clock while we are supposed to be working for money. You say you've got that covered because your employer doesn't mind.

But the other half of the equation is the opposite. It is represented by cheating our heavenly employer when we try to work for the worldly system while claiming to be Heavenly employees (i.e. followers of Jesus). Jesus did not teach the same flexibility which your worldly employer has. He says we can only serve one; God or mammon.

The question isn't about whether or not you are honest with every single penny; the question is why should pennies be involved at all when it comes to your motivation? Even if all of you (including your boss and his boss and his boss, too) agree to have weekly devotionals and to be honest in your business, that still doesn't deal with the motivations for why you are working and what it is you are working for. Food? Clothing? Drink? Basic necessities? That's usually what it comes down to for most people. Deborah hinted at that when she talked about providing for her family or risk being an infidel. But Jesus specifically mentioned these things, too. Consider the birds and flowers. They don't work for money and yet God still feeds and clothes them. God knows we need at least basic necessities and yet he still insisted that our only motivation for work should be love (Matthew 6:24-33, John 6:27, Matthew 4:4).

If we are working for the systems of man (i.e. money) then it doesn't really matter how many devotionals we have each week, and if it is the Kingdom of Heaven (i.e. love) we are working for then why should monetary gain factor into the motivation? On the other hand, if there is a person who would do their job even if they didn't get paid for it because they found it genuinely enjoyable or helpful to the kingdom of Heaven, I'd have a different opinion.

But anyway, what about all those Christians out there who are not working in jobs such as yours, where the employer allows you freedom to preach the gospel? In other words, if it makes a difference for you (in a good way) to have weekly devotionals or to have an "ok" from the boss to preach, then shouldn't it make a difference if Christians in those other jobs are not having weekly devotionals and do not have an ok from the boss to talk about Jesus, but still stay there because of the money?

 

[Brother Mike]

(Post removed. Response to a deleted post. Obadiah)

 

[Kenny_ms]

(Post deleted, A&T guidelines: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah)

 

[Deborah13]

but still stay there because of the money?

We stay there to support our families the way the Lord commands that we should. We should not be a burden on others, either. We should be the ones helping those who cannot work to provide for themselves or their families. That is what I see in scripture.

 

[WIP]

Hi WIP,

There's a bit under the "continuous innovation and improvement" bubble which says, "we challenge the status quo". I'm curious to hear what that means in practical terms.

I don't want to take this thread of course but I will try to answer your question.

What it means is that we are continuously striving to improve our products, which include our service to our customers both interior and exterior of our walls. There was a period of time when we got lazy and accepted where we were in the industry and in our community and we suffered for it.

We have now learned the importance of putting our customers, each other, and our community first and of course not forgetting who makes it all possible...God.

 

[Brother Mike]

We stay there to support our families the way the Lord commands that we should. We should not be a burden on others, either. We should be the ones helping those who cannot work to provide for themselves or their families. That is what I see in scripture.

That is what I was talking with the wife about today. It's been like supernatural of not being able to find a trucking Job all year, turned down over and over and over, despite having 10 years experience and clean MVR record. God showed us something amazing though for a whole year. he paid off our car, Paid rent every single month, paid everything.

We never told one person we needed money, not one. We claimed the money, and it came in on time from different people.

Now in the past I fully expect to see healing and people giving awesome testimonies of things God has done for them, I believed in that. I also believed that God always takes care of you.

Nothing like this though, not on time, paid up, and no lack ever. We did get some food stamp help, but even that we fed people and made meals for folks.

I was use to giving a lot, and paid over 400 a week in taxes just with the amount of money I brought in. It was almost a pride issue that God had to take care of me. Very strange thinking I know.

I always told God I was going to out give him and the amount multiplied that I gave was not going to catch me. God did this year, way beyond.

I suspect I had to be taught something, and believe for my full ministry. I know now that whatever God needs for the ministry, it will come in, no problem. I have seen it, in my life and the church I go to. Nothing is to hard for God.

Today though was talking with the wife, and I am grateful, but I want to start giving in large amounts again. Pay folks rent, help folks, even buy them a place to live. It's more blessed to give than receive

like

Thank you


.

 

[Deborah13]

It's more blessed to give than receive

I agree. So the people who have helped your family have been blessed. It may have been a learning experience for some of them, as well as you.

 

[Brother Mike]

I agree. So the people who have helped your family have been blessed. It may have been a learning experience for some of them, as well as you.

Well, seeing does not cause faith, but scripture does say experience causes hope, and our hope is not made ashamed. I don't know of all the people that helped, who paid off our car loan, but their seed will be blessed, and I am seeing that no matter what State your in, God is not limited to taking care of us. It will be useful when we have to believe for bigger things to get the Lord's work done.

Blessings.

 

[The_Epsicle]

I have to agree with the question at least. Why would Jesus not want us extremely wealthy?

(Post removed. A&T guidelines state: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah.)

My apologies to Obadiah, I kind of glazed over that part when reading the A&T guidelines. Here's my scripture with an explanation this time:

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." - 1 Timothy 6:10 ESV

Money can destroy our faith and causes a lot of stress, when you multiply money you multiply stress and divide Faith. That is why Jesus may not want us to be extremely wealthy. Earlier in the chapter(1 Timothy 6:5 ESV) we see that godliness is not a means of material gain, so our Faith in God should not be centered on gaining anything but the assurance of Salvation. If we have Faith in God everything else will fall into place on its own without us worrying about it.

"Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." - Matthew 6:31-33 ESV

 

[Obadiah]

My apologies to Obadiah, I kind of glazed over that part when reading the A&T guidelines. Here's my scripture with an explanation this time:

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." - 1 Timothy 6:10 ESV

Money can destroy our faith and causes a lot of stress, when you multiply money you multiply stress and divide Faith. That is why Jesus may not want us to be extremely wealthy. Earlier in the chapter(1 Timothy 6:5 ESV) we see that godliness is not a means of material gain, so our Faith in God should not be centered on gaining anything but the assurance of Salvation. If we have Faith in God everything else will fall into place on its own without us worrying about it.

"Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." - Matthew 6:31-33 ESV

Thanks T E. No apology needed.

 

[Brother Mike]

(Post deleted at poster's request. Obadiah)

 

[The_Epsicle]

(Edited: Response to a deleted post. Obadiah)

"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions." - Matthew 19:16-22 ESV

Of course we do not know what the rich young man did, but we can see from his response to Jesus that his love of money had damaged his Faith.

 

[Brother Mike]

(Edited: Response to a deleted post. Obadiah)

"And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions." - Matthew 19:16-22 ESV

Of course we do not know what the rich young man did, but we can see from his response to Jesus that his love of money had damaged his Faith.

Money does not destroy faith, the Love of money and lust of other things can choke the Word. (Mark 4)

If you read Mark 10, Jesus was not trying to make the rich young ruler broke. He was trying to get his trust off the money, and trust in the principles of the Kingdom of God. Keep reading, no man has sown all they have had, and not revived a 100 fold now in this time. That would have multiplied all the rich young ruler had, and gotten his eyes on the power of God, and not His wealth.

There is a reason Jesus said the children of Light are unwise about unrighteous mammon. We have doctrines that make us miss God's system of wealth in our attempts to avoid it and letting the devil have it all.

Mike.

 

[john darling]

I asked to be able to be in this kind of a position per Matthew 21:22: “whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." whether or not it paid money. Had it not paid money, God would have provided for me by some other means. But he gave me both in one.

Hi Obadiah. It was suggested earlier that the Matthew 21:22 verse should be taken in context with other places where Jesus says much the same thing, but adds, "in my name" or "according to my father's will", (luke 11:9, John 14:13, Mark 11:24 and 1 John 5:14).

The Matthew verse seems to be the only example where the caveat "in thy name" or "according to thy will" is not included. But we see those kind of discrepencies in several places in the Bible. Was it one blind man who was healed or two? (Matthew 20:29-34 vs Mark 10:46-52). These kind of discrepencies don't matter because we don't live by the letter but by the spirit, meaning we should be able to look at all the bits of evidence and put them together in a way which shows us what spirit was being communicated. Otherwise we'd need to conclude that if you pray with the Matthew verse in mind, God will give you anything you ask for without any kind of restriction or context whereas if you pray with any of the other examples in mind then God will only answer prayers which are "in his name" or "according to his will." Such a conclusion is more of a technicality than a genuine attempt to understand God's will.

So, is it really God answering all these prayers for jobs working for mammon? Is it a prayer which is consistent with God's will for his employees? Or is it just people applying for the jobs like every atheist or Hindu or Buddhist out there who also get jobs working for money by applying for them?

You say you would have been fine to do the job even if you didn't get paid, but then you say if it didn't involve pay God would have arranged for a job in which you would be working for money. You don't see anything at all strange about that logic? Instead of working simply because you think the work is worthy, God would rather have you working for money?

 

[john darling]

Oops, I just realized the Mark 11 verse which I quoted above also does not have the "according to my father's will" part. However, I don't think anyone is suggesting that God will grant any prayer of any kind for any reason simply because it was asked for. The context is that it must be consitent with his will.