Do We Still Have A Sin Nature...

[Peterlag]

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

 

[for_his_glory]

We all have fallen short of the glory of the Lord as that is a fact, but those who are in Christ and He in them are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit. All have the nature to sin and while in the flesh we will always sin. But as a child of God we need to crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[PeterJens]

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

Do we respond inappropriately to life? Maybe, but in grace and love, we have hope the answer is we can respond appropriately.

If we can respond appropriately in Christ, through His love, then have we left the potential for sin behind?
If you read the apostles, the answer is no. Jesus was tempted, so even God could have responded inappropriately.

Our desire to blame that which we do not understand about ourselves creates this term, sin nature.
I would say separateness from the vine causes Jesus's love to stop flowing so we die and our response
is our own, so leads to sin.

Perfectionism is by itself a miss-understanding of sin and our failure. How many times do we get into arguments
and get angry, only later to see our response was driven by anger, triggered because of stress and not coping,
but when looked at in context, was inappropriate. So in Jesus we are perfect, but in the sense of possessing this
we sin, not seeing it is the communion that makes this possible and cannot be divided.

I once tried to think of the idea of being objective about myself or the Lord. I realised as everything is created
by the Lord and we have our being through His will, there is no objectivity, only an expression of who He is.
The actual attempt of objectivity, withdrawing from Him, by itself leads to sin, which is a kind of contradiction.
By getting closer to Him we see His creation and intentions, light over darkness.

The trinity is 3 independent being yet one God, a dynamic of separateness with communion and a single will.
So in dwelling in Christ we are set free because we see the interplay which is both independent and objective yet
not at the same time. Jesus as a man showed us, His perfection is not dependent on Him being God in status
but in who He is and How he reacts. The risk was real, but on the other side of love, would always work to His
glory. Peter called this like looking in a mirror and seeing ourselves as we are.

Jesus knows our risks in the world are real risks with downsides which in the end we can never resolve.
Jesus knows we need to see in Him there is no downside, so our reticence can go. Like all of you I know
this reticence and often craziness within church groups, but in Christ it is life and love, a wonderful outcome.

God bless you

 

[Peterlag]

Do we respond inappropriately to life? Maybe, but in grace and love, we have hope the answer is we can respond appropriately.

If we can respond appropriately in Christ, through His love, then have we left the potential for sin behind?
If you read the apostles, the answer is no. Jesus was tempted, so even God could have responded inappropriately.

Our desire to blame that which we do not understand about ourselves creates this term, sin nature.
I would say separateness from the vine causes Jesus's love to stop flowing so we die and our response
is our own, so leads to sin.

Perfectionism is by itself a miss-understanding of sin and our failure. How many times do we get into arguments
and get angry, only later to see our response was driven by anger, triggered because of stress and not coping,
but when looked at in context, was inappropriate. So in Jesus we are perfect, but in the sense of possessing this
we sin, not seeing it is the communion that makes this possible and cannot be divided.

I once tried to think of the idea of being objective about myself or the Lord. I realised as everything is created
by the Lord and we have our being through His will, there is no objectivity, only an expression of who He is.
The actual attempt of objectivity, withdrawing from Him, by itself leads to sin, which is a kind of contradiction.
By getting closer to Him we see His creation and intentions, light over darkness.

The trinity is 3 independent being yet one God, a dynamic of separateness with communion and a single will.
So in dwelling in Christ we are set free because we see the interplay which is both independent and objective yet
not at the same time. Jesus as a man showed us, His perfection is not dependent on Him being God in status
but in who He is and How he reacts. The risk was real, but on the other side of love, would always work to His
glory. Peter called this like looking in a mirror and seeing ourselves as we are.

Jesus knows our risks in the world are real risks with downsides which in the end we can never resolve.
Jesus knows we need to see in Him there is no downside, so our reticence can go. Like all of you I know
this reticence and often craziness within church groups, but in Christ it is life and love, a wonderful outcome.

God bless you

I disagree. I don't believe I have a sin nature. Nor do I believe that Jesus is God. Yes Jesus was tempted. But God cannot be temped.

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian

 

[Hopeful]

We all have fallen short of the glory of the Lord as that is a fact, but those who are in Christ and He in them are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit. All have the nature to sin and while in the flesh we will always sin. But as a child of God we need to crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Please don't confuse having skin and bones with walking in or after the flesh.
Most NT, biblical, applications of the term "flesh" refer to the old fleshly oriented mind.
Skin and bones do not prompt us to commit sin, the old, now dead, fleshly mind is to blame.
Thank God we don't have to "fall short" anymore.
Thank God for the new divine nature.

 

[Hopeful]

I disagree. I don't believe I have a sin nature. Nor do I believe that Jesus is God. Yes Jesus was tempted. But God cannot be temped.

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian

I agree totally !!!

 

[for_his_glory]

Please don't confuse having skin and bones with walking in or after the flesh.
Most NT, biblical, applications of the term "flesh" refer to the old fleshly oriented mind.
Skin and bones do not prompt us to commit sin, the old, now dead, fleshly mind is to blame.
Thank God we don't have to "fall short" anymore.
Thank God for the new divine nature.

Not going to go there with you again on this as we have gone round and round on this.
You have a good day.

 

[Hopeful]

Not going to go there with you again on this as we have gone round and round on this.
You have a good day.

OK.

 

[PeterJens]

I disagree. I don't believe I have a sin nature. Nor do I believe that Jesus is God. Yes Jesus was tempted. But God cannot be temped.

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian

This sounds a gnostic like version of spiritual life.
I heard a preacher who shared similarly to this. In his view he was now perfect, except when he sinned it was
not himself sinning. The other version is he no longer could sin, but few last very long taking this position
because invariably they fall short and everyone sees they have not quite made this grade.

Paul said we can sow to the flesh or to the spirit. If we are incapable of sowing the flesh, how can believers
fall away and go back to the world, which I know they do do.

Another point I would make is if you do not have a sin nature, you are defining it in a way that it is no longer
present. Now in summary form this language sounds great, until you ask, what do you mean?

On the idea God cannot be tempted, you are right, the Father cannot be tempted, but a limited man, Gods
essence or word in human form can be. And equally Jesus can be God in essence yet not be God the Father.
This unity and difference is part of the gospel and part of the Lords eternal message of His nature and our
position. Jesus being God is the reason His forgiveness of the crucifixion is our salvation, because God called
mans evil and rebellion forgiven, if we believe in Jesus. And Jesus had to be God, showing Gods intention
and heart to us, to do the impossible, God dying for us so that we might know the breadth of His intentions.

God bless you

 

[Peterlag]

This sounds a gnostic like version of spiritual life.
I heard a preacher who shared similarly to this. In his view he was now perfect, except when he sinned it was
not himself sinning. The other version is he no longer could sin, but few last very long taking this position
because invariably they fall short and everyone sees they have not quite made this grade.

Paul said we can sow to the flesh or to the spirit. If we are incapable of sowing the flesh, how can believers
fall away and go back to the world, which I know they do do.

Another point I would make is if you do not have a sin nature, you are defining it in a way that it is no longer
present. Now in summary form this language sounds great, until you ask, what do you mean?

On the idea God cannot be tempted, you are right, the Father cannot be tempted, but a limited man, Gods
essence or word in human form can be. And equally Jesus can be God in essence yet not be God the Father.
This unity and difference is part of the gospel and part of the Lords eternal message of His nature and our
position. Jesus being God is the reason His forgiveness of the crucifixion is our salvation, because God called
mans evil and rebellion forgiven, if we believe in Jesus. And Jesus had to be God, showing Gods intention
and heart to us, to do the impossible, God dying for us so that we might know the breadth of His intentions.

God bless you

I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught. Then where did this idea come from that we are still sinners by nature, and that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual, but still alive to sin whereby we must with much effort, frustration, and failure be in a battle with our sin nature the rest of our lives? Who taught us that it's not the spirit that has become our new nature, but that after we received Christ within, we still have the old sin nature left as we live the rest of our lives trying to restrain it? If the apostle Paul taught that we do experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ, and that it’s dead and gone and therefore we are dead to sin? Then where did this idea come from that we are still alive to sin? Could it have come from these guys...

The concept of the original sin was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul. Some two hundred years later another church father who went by the name of Augustine, (Bishop of Hippo) whose writings shaped and developed the doctrine of sin as he considered that humanity shared in Adam's sin. Augustine's formulation of the original sin after the year of 412 was popular among protestant reformer's such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated the original sin with a hurtful desire meaning that it persisted even after baptism and therefore completely destroyed the freedom to do good. At first Augustine, said that free will was weakened, but not destroyed by the original sin. But after the year of 412 this concept changed to a loss of free will except to sin, and it's this Augustine's concept that influenced the development of the western church and western philosophy and indirectly all of western Christianity.

P.S. And you don't think it sounds a tad bit odd saying that God died?

 

[PeterJens]

I believe God gave us a new nature when we are born again and that this is what the apostle Paul taught. Then where did this idea come from that we are still sinners by nature, and that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual, but still alive to sin whereby we must with much effort, frustration, and failure be in a battle with our sin nature the rest of our lives? Who taught us that it's not the spirit that has become our new nature, but that after we received Christ within, we still have the old sin nature left as we live the rest of our lives trying to restrain it? If the apostle Paul taught that we do experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ, and that it’s dead and gone and therefore we are dead to sin? Then where did this idea come from that we are still alive to sin? Could it have come from these guys...

The concept of the original sin was first alluded to in the second century by Irenaeus, (Bishop of Lyon) who was working for the Catholics and not for the apostle Paul. Some two hundred years later another church father who went by the name of Augustine, (Bishop of Hippo) whose writings shaped and developed the doctrine of sin as he considered that humanity shared in Adam's sin. Augustine's formulation of the original sin after the year of 412 was popular among protestant reformer's such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated the original sin with a hurtful desire meaning that it persisted even after baptism and therefore completely destroyed the freedom to do good. At first Augustine, said that free will was weakened, but not destroyed by the original sin. But after the year of 412 this concept changed to a loss of free will except to sin, and it's this Augustine's concept that influenced the development of the western church and western philosophy and indirectly all of western Christianity.

P.S. And you don't think it sounds a tad bit odd saying that God died?

A man can die. It is not odd that Jesus can die, because He said he would.
The resurrection from the dead was the first to be raised, showing that though the human body dies, it
can be resurrected to new life. There was a debate in Judaism that this was not possible which the sadducies
believed, while the pharisees believed it could happen.

Jesus was unusual. How can a man also be God? Jesus accepted worship, and showed He was equal
to God which is what the Jews complained about when He said God was His Father.

When you suggest sinners are sinners by nature is a summary statement and unclear.
A better question is can a human be Holy? Can humans be cleansed?
If the answer is yes, which Jews would be aware of because the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies
once a year. Once you have reached a point of cleansing, you then ask what can make people unclean
and why?

You begin to see what we focus on and believe as important become the key drivers in our lives.

How one summarises motivations to sin, you begin to see how we fail and how we succeed.
A lot of our driving forces are emotional prompts, but none are unique or cannot be directed or changed
in some way. It is amazing how we are reactive to our understanding of others and the world around
us which is often wrong and not informed, until we begin to see who we are and how others behave as a
result.

God bless you

 

[Peterlag]

A man can die. It is not odd that Jesus can die, because He said he would.
The resurrection from the dead was the first to be raised, showing that though the human body dies, it
can be resurrected to new life. There was a debate in Judaism that this was not possible which the sadducies
believed, while the pharisees believed it could happen.

Jesus was unusual. How can a man also be God? Jesus accepted worship, and showed He was equal
to God which is what the Jews complained about when He said God was His Father.

When you suggest sinners are sinners by nature is a summary statement and unclear.
A better question is can a human be Holy? Can humans be cleansed?
If the answer is yes, which Jews would be aware of because the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies
once a year. Once you have reached a point of cleansing, you then ask what can make people unclean
and why?

You begin to see what we focus on and believe as important become the key drivers in our lives.

How one summarises motivations to sin, you begin to see how we fail and how we succeed.
A lot of our driving forces are emotional prompts, but none are unique or cannot be directed or changed
in some way. It is amazing how we are reactive to our understanding of others and the world around
us which is often wrong and not informed, until we begin to see who we are and how others behave as a
result.

God bless you

Jesus was unusual. How can a man also be God? Jesus accepted worship, and showed He was equal
to God which is what the Jews complained about when He said God was His Father.

*** So if I say that someone is my father... does that make me my father?

A better question is can a human be Holy? Can humans be cleansed?

*** I'm made the righteousness of God in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Then where did this idea come from that we are still sinners by nature, and that the spirit of Christ makes our flesh spiritual, but still alive to sin whereby we must with much effort, frustration, and failure be in a battle with our sin nature the rest of our lives?

There is always a battle between the flesh and the Spirit that is in us as the flesh wants what it wants and we who are Christ own have crucified the flesh that we no longer walk in the lust of it. We are still flesh as we have not been made incorruptible or immortal yet and acceptable of sinning, 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. This is why we need to be walking in the Spirit as we crucify this flesh daily so we do not fall to the temptations of the flesh.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[gordon777]

Still flesh, made incorruptible yet, or no.

Cant be in the flesh, as we bring forth fruit to death when we were in the flesh.

But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if we do not have the Spirit( and are yet in the flesh bringing forth fruit to death) we are none of His.





Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.




Now we henceforth live not unto ourselves( no longer in the flesh to the lusts of men, now to the will of God to have ceased from sin, which is His will, and not the will of man any more, although they deny all and insist sinning is Gods will as we struggle and God left u struggling which is denial of the testimony of truth.)

We now know no man( including ourselves) after the flesh any more, now we live not to ourselves but to God who died for us, therefore IF ANY MAN IS IN CHRIST( if we walk after the Spirit and not flesh we are His, or we are NONE OF HIS.) all old is passed away, all IS NEW, ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD ( SINS AND BEING YET IN THE FLESH, ARE OLD AND ARE NOT OF GOD WHO IS SPIRIT IN US) who reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ.




2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

 

[gordon777]

Peoples assertion we are corruptible, or Gods testimony not to hear them, but that we are to avoid that former ignorance they want us to remain in?

We be holy, and work of the flesh is to be judged.

We were redeemed not with corruptible, but with the precious blood of Christ without spot or blemish ( now we believe in incorruptible) as Christ was foreordained to be made manifest in these last times for us.

Born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God ( Jesus Christ, the Spirit to give us sincere love of the brothers, hot sinning against them and calling that unfeigned)

Belief in the Word of God that lives and abides forever( belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead makes us dead to hate and sin and alive to righteousness which is Jesus Christ)




1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[Peterlag]

Still flesh, made incorruptible yet, or no.

Cant be in the flesh, as we bring forth fruit to death when we were in the flesh.

But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if we do not have the Spirit( and are yet in the flesh bringing forth fruit to death) we are none of His.





Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.




Now we henceforth live not unto ourselves( no longer in the flesh to the lusts of men, now to the will of God to have ceased from sin, which is His will, and not the will of man any more, although they deny all and insist sinning is Gods will as we struggle and God left u struggling which is denial of the testimony of truth.)

We now know no man( including ourselves) after the flesh any more, now we live not to ourselves but to God who died for us, therefore IF ANY MAN IS IN CHRIST( if we walk after the Spirit and not flesh we are His, or we are NONE OF HIS.) all old is passed away, all IS NEW, ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD ( SINS AND BEING YET IN THE FLESH, ARE OLD AND ARE NOT OF GOD WHO IS SPIRIT IN US) who reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ.




2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Great Post. I loved seeing these two verses together...

Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

P.S. Do you have a verse that says "God who died for us?"

 

[for_his_glory]

Still flesh, made incorruptible yet, or no.

Cant be in the flesh, as we bring forth fruit to death when we were in the flesh.

But we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in us, and if we do not have the Spirit( and are yet in the flesh bringing forth fruit to death) we are none of His.





Romans 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.




Now we henceforth live not unto ourselves( no longer in the flesh to the lusts of men, now to the will of God to have ceased from sin, which is His will, and not the will of man any more, although they deny all and insist sinning is Gods will as we struggle and God left u struggling which is denial of the testimony of truth.)

We now know no man( including ourselves) after the flesh any more, now we live not to ourselves but to God who died for us, therefore IF ANY MAN IS IN CHRIST( if we walk after the Spirit and not flesh we are His, or we are NONE OF HIS.) all old is passed away, all IS NEW, ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD ( SINS AND BEING YET IN THE FLESH, ARE OLD AND ARE NOT OF GOD WHO IS SPIRIT IN US) who reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ.




2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

The nature to sin is only by the lust of the flesh in those who walk in the flesh, but we who are Christ own no longer walk in the flesh, but in the very Spirit of God. As long as we are walking in the Spirit we will not fall to the temptations of the flesh.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


These scriptures teaches us about the flesh and the Spirit as it shows the sins of the flesh. If you want to dispute them then that is your choice.

 

[for_his_glory]

Peoples assertion we are corruptible, or Gods testimony not to hear them, but that we are to avoid that former ignorance they want us to remain in?

We be holy, and work of the flesh is to be judged.

We were redeemed not with corruptible, but with the precious blood of Christ without spot or blemish ( now we believe in incorruptible) as Christ was foreordained to be made manifest in these last times for us.

Born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God ( Jesus Christ, the Spirit to give us sincere love of the brothers, hot sinning against them and calling that unfeigned)

Belief in the Word of God that lives and abides forever( belief that Jesus Christ rose from the dead makes us dead to hate and sin and alive to righteousness which is Jesus Christ)




1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

What is your understanding of these verses?

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus was unusual. How can a man also be God? Jesus accepted worship, and showed He was equal
to God which is what the Jews complained about when He said God was His Father.

*** So if I say that someone is my father... does that make me my father?

A better question is can a human be Holy? Can humans be cleansed?

*** I'm made the righteousness of God in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Let me put things slightly differently.

Everything that is God is eternal. God does not define himself, so anything that is part of Him
is equally God, as its limits are eternal and infinite.

Therefore if Christ was part of the Father, His word, His message, His creativity in human form
then though He is not in totality the Father, He is still God.

It is a concept many find hard to get their minds around. But when I saw it, I understood.
Anything that is literally part of the Father is God, though we do not really know how or why.
Jesus did not know the times and dates of things set by the Father in the future, but this does
not invalidate His status or being or source. Jesus was not created, so He came from the Father
and cannot be dealt with separate from the Father.

We have a similar problem in human looking figures talking to people, who were not angels,
and scripture calls them the Lord.

In a very real way the Father could not come and talk with man, because then whoever would die.
So an intermediary, a neutral form was needed which could communicate and commune with man
and also interact. The Lord wrestled with Jacob. The Lord desires and opens a way for interaction
and participation in a rich way. Jesus describes us as being on His throne with Him.

This openness and sharing he partook in with the apostles also. It is the breaking of the barrier
to be called friends, to be equal in His eyes, is astounding.

God bless you

 

[Peterlag]

Let me put things slightly differently.

Everything that is God is eternal. God does not define himself, so anything that is part of Him
is equally God, as its limits are eternal and infinite.

Therefore if Christ was part of the Father, His word, His message, His creativity in human form
then though He is not in totality the Father, He is still God.

It is a concept many find hard to get their minds around. But when I saw it, I understood.
Anything that is literally part of the Father is God, though we do not really know how or why.
Jesus did not know the times and dates of things set by the Father in the future, but this does
not invalidate His status or being or source. Jesus was not created, so He came from the Father
and cannot be dealt with separate from the Father.

We have a similar problem in human looking figures talking to people, who were not angels,
and scripture calls them the Lord.

In a very real way the Father could not come and talk with man, because then whoever would die.
So an intermediary, a neutral form was needed which could communicate and commune with man
and also interact. The Lord wrestled with Jacob. The Lord desires and opens a way for interaction
and participation in a rich way. Jesus describes us as being on His throne with Him.

This openness and sharing he partook in with the apostles also. It is the breaking of the barrier
to be called friends, to be equal in His eyes, is astounding.

God bless you

I have no idea what you're talking about. Any Scriptures with this concept?