TimothyW
Member
A bad day fishing is better than a good day doing the dishes.
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Do you believe in hell?
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
downunderlive
Member
I couldn't say what does or does not exist after I die. I simply don't know and unless I have enough objective evidence to create a workable theory, I can't say I'll ever know until after I die.
white hamster
Member
There are many descriptions of the tormented after life in the bible. I think that may be to tell us that hell/hades/sheol/the pit/ are going to be a different experience for anyone that goes there. Possibly depending on who they were in this life as to the level of torments or experience they have there.
downunderlive,
If you examined the Christian world and life view from the point of view of the integrity of the historical evidence in Scripture, you would know exactly where you would be one second after your last breath.
To get you started, here's an article I wrote from a Christian perspective: Hell in the Bible.
In my understanding, there are only two places to which a person can go at death. Take a read about them in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 (NIV) . It's serious business knowing what happens at death and how to obtain that knowledge. I urge you not to put off this examination.
Oz
downunderlive
Member
Yes of course you are right when you say in the christian world view. Just one of the many world views about life after death.
Define a bad day of fishing.
I know, I know. While working on a professional tuna boat, one night I was attempting to sleep without success. I decided to go out on deck, get one of the fishing poles available and just waste time by lowering the hook into the water under a full moon. The ocean full of Krill shrimp will reflect any movement under the moonlight and all of a sudden something so large made a dash from way down deep toward my hook, and I became afraid and jerked the hook back out of the water. I supposed it to be a Orka, or extreme big Hammerhead shark. In any event I got away from the edge of the deck that was probably three feet above water, and went back to my bunk satisfied to leave fishing to someone who cared. I will admit it left me with fishing tale to tell.Define a bad day of fishing.
Why did you not respond to the information in the links I provided? Hell in the Bible
and Luke 16:19-31 (NIV) .
There is one big difference between Christianity and all of the religions of the world. That is the person of Jesus Christ who divided history. Who is he? Why was this sinless God-man crucified? What crime did he commit that deserved this capital penalty?
Shoel is the OT version of hades.Hades is the NT version of Sheol.I think Gehenna is referenced alot of the times in the Bible as hell.
jasonc
Member
if one uses the lxx, the word for sheol is hades in all its usages. the nt was written in greek. if we were to hear jesus in Hebrew it would have said and being in sheol in torment the rich man looked up..
But we don't have access to the Hebrew version of what Jesus said. We have the Greek version and the place of torment for the rich man is in the Greek, hades, which is a place of torment.
The most common Bible translation of the OT at the time the Gospels were written was not the Hebrew OT but the Septuagint (LXX), which was in the common language of the people. Therefore, hades would have been the language known to the common and scholarly people of the time of Christ. See: 'In what language was the Bible first written?'
jasonc
Member
he spoke to jews who then TRANSLATED IT FOR THE Greco roman culture. but we do have what sheol is from archeology and what the jews say themselves.
being a jew whom laid to rest three relativies and observed the rites of jews i had to look up what they say. this lead me to sheol and what it is and what they say it is. in the oral traditions at the time. sheol had levels. the lowest level is for the most wicked. if you take that parable and see that is what he is talking about. god judged isreal and Judah for what? idolatry, failing to help the poor, shabat not being observed. what did the rich man fail to do? he failed to feed lazarus. god also damned sodoma and gommorah for that as well along with their sexual sins.
jasonc
Member
oz pen do you really think that lxx is widely used today? its not. sorry to derail. the Masoretic text a jewish translation meaning oral is used for the ot. not the lxx.i don't know of any modern bible that uses greek for the ot in the protestant side. i also do find it odd that you say we only have that as well the name of God is translated into kyrios in the lxx. his name isn't LORD its YHWH. the Jews said adonai to avoid saying that ineffable name.lxx then also had extra books. the jews today reject those. and so do all but the orthodox and rcc.
chessman
Member
I am not talking about which OT text is being used today. I'm discussing the most available text of the OT at the time the Gospels were written. F F Bruce wrote that the Septuagint
translation was practically the 'Authorized Version' of the Bible for Greek-speaking Jews (until the end of the first century A.D.) and for Greek-speaking Christians (throughout the whole Christian era)....
The internal evidence of the Septuagint suggests that this Greek version of the Old Testament was made in the first instance to meet the requirements of the Jewish population of Alexandria, and not to grace the royal library....
There are two main reasons why the Jews lost interest in the Septuagint. One was that from the first century A.D. onwards the Christians adopted it as their version of the Old Testament, and used it freely in their propagation and defence of the Christian faith....
Another reason for the Jews' loss of interest in the Septuagint lies in the fact that about A.D. 100 a revised standard text was established for the Hebrew Bible by Jewish scholars, in the first instance for the Pentateuch and later for the other Old Testament books (Bruce 1963:70, 148, 149).
The internal evidence of the Septuagint suggests that this Greek version of the Old Testament was made in the first instance to meet the requirements of the Jewish population of Alexandria, and not to grace the royal library....
There are two main reasons why the Jews lost interest in the Septuagint. One was that from the first century A.D. onwards the Christians adopted it as their version of the Old Testament, and used it freely in their propagation and defence of the Christian faith....
Another reason for the Jews' loss of interest in the Septuagint lies in the fact that about A.D. 100 a revised standard text was established for the Hebrew Bible by Jewish scholars, in the first instance for the Pentateuch and later for the other Old Testament books (Bruce 1963:70, 148, 149).
Oz
Works consulted
Bruce, F F 1963. The books and the parchments: Some chapters on the transmission of the Bible, rev edn. Old Tappan, New Jersey: Fleming H. Revell Company.
In your opinion, is the Jew's thinking of gehenna the equivalent to the lake of fire, or perdition? Do they even realize those not in Christ will stand before Jesus at the great White Throne Judgment? If they don't, all their learning is of no profit.
And to justify their unbelief, they haven’t even faced judgment in their thinking without Christ, so we can understand their ignorance of the matter.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
WHAT? There is more?
jasonc
Member
delineat which hades is it?
the god of the underworld?
the greek definition of hades? which includes levels and also had the idea of Sharon and the river of styx?
the grave?
so where would a greek know what to believe about hades? the apostles would have to know what sheol was. the Christians then often redefined what greek words meant to them. ie made it a jargon. agape is one world and baptizmo is another. the latter means to immerse , it doenst have to mean with water.
the god of the underworld?
the greek definition of hades? which includes levels and also had the idea of Sharon and the river of styx?
the grave?
so where would a greek know what to believe about hades? the apostles would have to know what sheol was. the Christians then often redefined what greek words meant to them. ie made it a jargon. agape is one world and baptizmo is another. the latter means to immerse , it doenst have to mean with water.
jasonc
Member
the idea of the lake of fire from some rabbis is the nearly the same. a fiery place of torment for those that aren't good.i read up on that to see what they say.most of them are uu with that. in the Hebrew doesn't stay in either. I didn't expect them to see it our way. just to see that they never saw either as a grave.