Do you belong to the Church?

[John the Baptist]

what is a heretic based on scripture?
not based on opinion, dictionaries and deductions.
please show the scriptures that use the exact or equivalent word for heretic or heresy and then we can have an idea of what a heretic is and what implications that has on someone's status as relating to the church and body of christ.

Interestingly I find the words heresy & heretic nowhere in NIV translation and in the KJV I find them only in the following places:

Acts 24:14
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

and
[quote:1e884]9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Please quote other scriptures if you can think of any.

cheers

WyldCyde[/quote:1e884]

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?? :wink: Ask yourself what Paul would be saying to you needing more than a 'twice' supply of the [Masters WORDS] from your above posting???
They sure seem clear from this location.
---John

 

[JM]

I always have a hard time getting your point John.

 

[John the Baptist]

*****************
?? Ask yourself what Paul would be saying to you needing more than a 'twice' supply of the [Masters WORDS] from your above posting???
They sure seem clear from this location.
---John
_________________
Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 for our provisions on earth, thank you Master!

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JM
123 Christian Pro


Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 4411
Location: Canada
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:53 am Post subject:

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I always have a hard time getting your point John.
_________________
Calvinist Gadfly
Alpha and Omega Ministries

*****
'Twice' was my thought? Sorry, try Titus 3:9-11 in the K.J. one.

 

[gingercat]

What makes you think so?

I belong to Jesus' church but not to the organized church building. I don't belong to organized church because I believe they are not in line with the Lord's teachings, and they are not being effective and efficient in His pursposes.

 

[stovebolts]

Here's an honest question.

Since there are several examples of Christians coming together in the NT as I posted in another thread, then I think that it is fair that we use the NT to define not only 'who' is 'in' the Church, but how the ones that make up 'the Church' are to express this devine unity.

Any bites? (Scripture only please)

 

[John the Baptist]

Sure Bolt's I'll take the 'bite'? Scripture only please?? :roll: But here is a post of quite some time back that I did to let any see where I come from. I post on several sites as Pastor N.B., Elijah & John. (and the reason for this is that all the sites have had visus problems, if my memory serves me correctly? :wink:
*******

Pastor N.B, if I understand you correctly, you believe currently God is calling out a people from all denominations of mainstream Christianity as well as from the unbelieving, and these ones who come out will form this one true denomination, and only they will be saved.
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P/N/B/ here:
Let me just add that all of these ones will gladly follow the Bible requirements of Everlasting Gospel order. Rom. 8:14. Christ will have no loose cannon's in heaven again with no Gospel order! That is where it all started in the first place! Otherwise the character would not be mature. Also 1 Peter 4:17 finds Adventism 'shaken' first. (judged) And in Christ's day it was the Denomination [as a whole] that were shaken out from the Truth in Christ. See 2 Thess. 2:1-3. And 'the man of sin'? Who replaces a desolate denomination? Again, Gen. 4:7 & Rev. 3:9.
******

Their doctrine will be the same as that of 7th Day Adventism, and these people in this one true denomination will obey the commandments of God perfectly and have perfected character. Because of their perfected character and pure 7th Day Adventist doctrine, God will allow them and only them into eternal life.
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P/N/B/ here:
I think that you see this correct? But for others sake let me say this, all saved will be saved only one way! Acts 4:12. And in total submission! Acts 5:32 .The righteousness of Christ is the only way to be saved. Rom. 8:1. The power is there, yet it requires a working covenant relationship! Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9. And yes, the only ones saved will be the ones who have been 'proven' safe to save. Na. 1:9 (but this has always been true! A person living in accordance to the light that they had been given)

You appear to consider 7th Day Adventism to have departed from the Lord as Israel in the old testament did, so that though you believe their doctrine to be correct, they are not the called out, the remnant, the elect, whatever you wish to call them.
******

Me again:
There are numerous verses of prophecy to tell us this Truth. The Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 verses are the most simple to understand in documented 'inspiration' perhaps? And in Isa. 5 it tells the exact history past & that which is again to be in the future. (even as to the reason of why, in verse 3) Then, along with the two/fold Eze. 9 slaughter of 70AD, & the Rev. 3's Naked/ness of Christ's Righteousness ones, we see that these too, will be [spewed out] as sickening. What Born Again person who [loves Christ] could stay in any yoked membership as a Rev. 18:4 Partaker of openly documented known sin??

Let me clarify! Rev. 18:4 is speaking of Babylon. (and her harlot daughters. see Rev. 17:5) And the verse is not talking of Virgin Israel as Babylon! Yet, if you take note about known sin & being Partakers, the WARNING still is Truth! And notice what your take would be as seen in Israel of old, in the Matt. 10:15'th verse?
Christ states:
"Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of [Sodom and Gomorrah] in the day of judgement, than for that city." (see verses 5-6 of this chapter for whom Christ was talking about!)

So, yes, surely Babylon was no worse that Sodom and Gomorrah!! But the most guilty are not either of these two! *See Luke 12:47-48.
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Am I understanding this right?

*****
My conclusion:
When one thinks of the Midnight Cry in Matt. 25 & the Shaking of 2 Thess. 2, another good verse (of many) is seen in Micah 2:13.
The descriptive Word is that of 'The Breaker is come up before them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it, and their King shall pass before them, and the Lord on the head of them." (check Zeph. 3:15!) Again, Matt. 23:38 & Matt. 25.

And yes, maybe we see an understanding of what is being said? Let me just add another verse seeing that you seem to be quick to understand a persons posting. In Amos 7:7-8 Amos sees a 'Plumbline' for Virgin Israel. Judgement! And in chapter 5:1-*2 ibid.. we see.. "Hear ye the Word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel. [THE VIRGIN OF ISRAEL IS FALLEN.]" Still yet, 1 Peter 4:17 finds this again in the repeat, but do not get the Midnight Cry of Matt. 25 confused with the LOUD CRY of Rev. 14:9. These that give this cry are the ones whom you describe. And this loud Cry is to the professed Christian World. It is 70 AD's counter part! 666

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

Free says:
The writings of the NT judge a lot of false doctrine and spell out the impending doom for false teachers. God has given us enough to be able to judge what is false and the Church really needs to get its act together and start getting rid of false teachings and teachers.

We try. Ratzinger was doing a bang up job and is now pope. The new head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) is an american. It will be a good change to have an american to yell at the crazy american heresies. Maybe they will listen now. But doubtful. Americans want to make their own way whatever the cost. I would know. I am one!

And charlotte, I dont think anyone here thinks the Church is a building. Im Roman Catholic and I still hold to what you defined as Church.

And Henry, you are a man after my own heart. Im so putting your post on my xanga! The truth is not decided by a majority vote, right on man! Actually, when Benedict XVI was still Cardinal Ratzinger, that was one of his famous quotes.

 

[stovebolts]

Hey John, Thanks for the bite :wink:

Actually, what I was looking for would be bible examples of HOW the first century Church did things. Yes, it's a given that the church was a group of believers in Christ, but that group did things in a certain way in the first century and they left many examples for us to follow.

When we get into the second and third centuries, the Church seems to morph into a religion (and for good cause no doubt in defense of it’s struggles) and is sealed in the third century with Constantine.

Today, there are many religions that head up under the name of Christ, but are they (we) really living, acting, worshiping in a manner that pleases God?

Example: In the first century, all believers were baptized and to the truest sense, they were fully immersed. Today, even the Orthodox Christians hold to this and they were a part of the original church.

In the first century church, they partook of the bread and wine... first century members were persecuted because of their "love feasts" and their cannibalism. Clearly, we are given example to do these things on a prescribed timeline, yet many denominations reject these things as not to be associated with the RCC... Sad when we miss the mark out of ignorance and worry. (btw, worry is a sin)

Another example is worship. Again, even the Orthodox Christians agree on this. (And I bring the Orthodox into this because they were part of the 1st century movement and hold to the truest forms of 1st century teachings out of the institutionalized churches). Anyway, they didn't use musical instruments in the first century church. They're just not there (in the NT). Yet, how many of our 'worship' services have become productions with either a praise and worship team or some priest that echo's over the flock during worship with instruments blaring?

So again I ask, where is the scripture to back up how the church comes together?

BTW: I am not Orthodox, nor do I endorse the Orthodox. I mention the Orthodox for historical value.

 

[stovebolts]

What makes you think so?

I belong to Jesus' church but not to the organized church building. I don't belong to organized church because I believe they are not in line with the Lord's teachings, and they are not being effective and efficient in His pursposes.

gingercat,

Food for thought...

There is a difference between church and Church. One can be a member of the Church while attending a church... and thus, one can be a member of a church and not belong to the Church...( 1 Corinthians 1:10-16 ) so the question that I ask you is this.

Is your church part of The Church? If so, how do you know this? In other words, what scripture does your church use to support it's form of worship as to ensure that it is acceptable to God? Keep in mind, even the demons believed in Christ and I doubt you'll see any of them in heaven.