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Do you think only humans have a soul?

Jethro Bodine said:
I'm speaking generally about animals, of course.

The point being they react instinctively, while we humans ponder and assess and think about things and act/react cerebrally (remember, I'm a brain surgeon, lol). Remove whatever it is outwardly that is provoking the dog to react and he will stop reacting. Not true with humans. We continue to think and invent things in our minds after all outward evidence of threat is removed.
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yes that is true. I have to deal with a situation where it appeared I was being laughed at and it wasn't. I finally stopped thinking about that this morning. its a pet peeve of mine, but god used that to change my heart from doing the same thing to others. how hyprocritcial and egotistical of me. theres also other heart issues with that situation. I may post a thread on that.
 
jasonc said:
this isn't the case with jewish thought. we have the the eternal yechida. which is from the act of god breathing his nature into us and it goes to him when we die to be judged. sheol or gan eden.
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Which I agree with at this point in my understanding of the subject. An understanding based largely on the scripture you are probably referring to:

"20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.21 Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:20-21 NASB)

Who knows? But I guess that's why we even have this thread to begin with.
 
jasonc said:
yes that is true. I have to deal with a situation where it appeared I was being laughed at and it wasn't. I finally stopped thinking about that this morning. its a pet peeve of mine, but god used that to change my heart from doing the same thing to others. how hyprocritcial and egotistical of me. theres also other heart issues with that situation. I may post a thread on that.
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I've found that Christianity is all about the casting down of man's imaginations. We invent so much stuff in our minds, with the help of satan the deceiver, and then we act on those imaginations, usually sinfully. God is in the business of giving us the power to cast those imaginations underfoot and not react to them. Life is so much better when we do that.
 
jasonc said:
nephesh, is the word deborah13, nephesh chaya isn't used at for animals. but we are souls , we have clothing. I take that from the jews.
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Hey Jason,
Is this close to what you are referring to? I have not been able to find anything directly from Rambam.
"The expression should be ha-adam nephesh chaya, but it isn’t. It actually reads, ha-adam le-nephesh chaya. What is the purpose of the extraneous preposition le. Literally, the text reads “man to person became.” Could it be that Man transitioned from something not-a-person into a person? Maimonides thought so. All the more reason to recognize that being a person, being human as God intended and breathed, is not unconditional nor is it concomitant with being born homo sapiens. Man becomes a person. Today you and I will breathe God’s gift of the nishmat chayim. We will choose if we will become a person." http://skipmoen.com/2011/05/21/poetic-justice/

My thoughts about this... what is man if he does not choose to be a person, he is no more than an animal. He is without God in mind and heart.
 
I don't respect maimondes. he is respected in Judaism but was liberal with the torah. he did mentor nachimades. though I can see that position.we don't become fully human until we believe In jesus. that is well taken from Judaism in part and what the holy spirit told me some time ago.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Which I agree with at this point in my understanding of the subject. An understanding based largely on the scripture you are probably referring to:

"20 All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.21 Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?" (Ecclesiastes 3:20-21 NASB)

Who knows? But I guess that's why we even have this thread to begin with.
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And maybe this is some what explained by the Hebrew Paul when he said that we are body, soul, and spirit. Put that with Matthew and we are in the image of God.
Mat_12:18 `Lo, My servant, whom I did choose, My beloved, in whom My soul did delight, I will put My Spirit upon him, and judgment to the nations he shall declare,
 
jasonc said:
we don't become fully human until we believe In jesus. that is well taken from Judaism in part and what the holy spirit told me some time ago.
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Which would make sense if you accept the fact that humans are three part beings.

Out of Christ the spiritual part of the human creation is dead. That makes us incomplete humans, instead of the complete humans God originally designed.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Which would make sense if you accept the fact that humans are three part beings.

Out of Christ the spiritual part of the human creation is dead. That makes us incomplete humans, instead of the complete humans God designed as originally.
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I don't buy the three part being idea. I buy what the jews say. the part of god is dead to him but even the dead sinners at times do reflect what god has made them to be. calvin called that a distorted image of Christ. even though we know Christ we aren't a full reflection of him. honestly asses what a perfect man is and look at how the jews see that and how they did it and what the church through the ages has said masculinity is and how its different from each culture. men in brazil may were flowers in their hair and its not effimate. yet do that in American Christianity and well get judged for being gay.

furthermore our minds do have some making up of who we are. if damage my frontal lobes I can be more angry and rash and have that problem. that is what the jews said a long time ago about two words for soul. nephesh and ruach both can house emotions and the intellect.
 
jasonc said:
I don't respect maimondes. he is respected in Judaism but was liberal with the torah. he did mentor nachimades. though I can see that position.we don't become fully human until we believe In jesus. that is well taken from Judaism in part and what the holy spirit told me some time ago.
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When did you change your mind about Rambam? Who would you suggest for clear rabbinical thought?
 
jasonc said:
I don't buy the three part being idea. I buy what the jews say. the part of god is dead to him but even the dead sinners at times do reflect what god has made them to be. calvin called that a distorted image of Christ. even though we know Christ we aren't a full reflection of him. honestly asses what a perfect man is and look at how the jews see that and how they did it and what the church through the ages has said masculinity is and how its different from each culture. men in brazil may were flowers in their hair and its not effimate. yet do that in American Christianity and well get judged for being gay.

furthermore our minds do have some making up of who we are. if damage my frontal lobes I can be more angry and rash and have that problem. that is what the jews said a long time ago about two words for soul. nephesh and ruach both can house emotions and the intellect.
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Paul was a Jew and a very well schooled Jew.
I do see that nephesh and ruach can both house emotions and intellect. One being our minds without God, the other our mind having been changed by God. soul and spirit
 
Deborah13 said:
Paul was a Jew and a very well schooled Jew.
I do see that nephesh and ruach can both house emotions and intellect. One being our minds without God, the other our mind having been changed by God. soul and spirit
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yes paul was very much in schooled in the midrash and Talmud of his day. influenced by hillel and gammaliel(who was an anti-Christ and cursed Christians)
 
jasonc said:
honestly asses what a perfect man is...
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:shock

jasonc said:
...men in brazil may were flowers in their hair and its not effimate. yet do that in American Christianity and well get judged for being gay.
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(...quietly removing flowers from my hair right now...)


jasonc said:
furthermore our minds do have some making up of who we are. if damage my frontal lobes I can be more angry and rash and have that problem. that is what the jews said a long time ago about two words for soul. nephesh and ruach both can house emotions and the intellect.
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I have a frontal lobe special going on right now at my brain surgery shop (next to the Target store in the plaza). Clip the coupon in Sunday's paper and come on down and see me.
 
Deborah13 said:
So because Rambam, tutored Ramban and Ramban had certain thoughts about Greek thought
you don't trust Rambam anymore?
Sorry Jason, I'm confused. I think I'm missing something in my interpretation of what you've said.
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personal preference and well rambam wasn't liked as much on the torah. if you read ramban a lot or a little you can find his view dominating jewry. not much to my limited knowledge is attributed to rambam. to be equal to rashi the very first jewish commentator who unified jewry on the torah and the Talmud is a lot.
 
jasonc said:
I don't buy the three part being idea. I buy what the jews say. the part of god is dead to him but even the dead sinners at times do reflect what god has made them to be. calvin called that a distorted image of Christ. even though we know Christ we aren't a full reflection of him. honestly asses what a perfect man is and look at how the jews see that and how they did it and what the church through the ages has said masculinity is and how its different from each culture. men in brazil may were flowers in their hair and its not effimate. yet do that in American Christianity and well get judged for being gay.

furthermore our minds do have some making up of who we are. if damage my frontal lobes I can be more angry and rash and have that problem. that is what the jews said a long time ago about two words for soul. nephesh and ruach both can house emotions and the intellect.
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But anyway, lol, I see the 'soul' as the consciousness that springs forth from living flesh. It's the actual person. It can be influenced by either the spirit of a person, or the flesh of a person. Since our spiritual part has been hamstrung in Adam, we default by nature to the influences of the body. In Christ the spiritual line of communication gets restored and now our soul--the very essence of who we are--can now be influenced and controlled by the Spirit of God and not just by the flesh.

Animals don't have this spiritual capacity. Their soul can only be influenced and shaped by the flesh.

That's where I'm at right now in my understanding of this subject.
 
Deborah13 said:
What does that have to do with the enlightened Paul?
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because he used that as lead by the lord. read what peter says about the word and the tanach. its nothing like paul. remember that unlike all the others paul alone was a rabbi. the others only knew the torah and bar mitzhvahed. not they didn't know prophecy but knew if from what the rabbi said and not how to debate it. paul eloquence and knowledge of greek thought came from his yeshiva days and they taught the rabbis to debate and know the opposing thoughts.
 
Deborah13 said:
Paul was a Jew and a very well schooled Jew.
I do see that nephesh and ruach can both house emotions and intellect. One being our minds without God, the other our mind having been changed by God. soul and spirit
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Perhaps you agree, then, that the soul hangs in between the flesh and the spirit parts of us. It is shaped and molded by both the influences of the spirit and the flesh.

Carnallly minded man is controlled and programmed by the influences of the flesh. Spiritually minded man, after he comes to Christ, is controlled and programmed by the influences of the Spirit of God via his own spirit.
 
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