Do You Understand the Mystery of God's Appearance?

[Iris Willson]

Many believers in the Lord believe that the Lord will return in glory, descending on a cloud and appearing to all peoples, so they are always gazing at the clouds in the sky, waiting for the Lord to com down on a cloud, and to be raptured up into the heavens and meet with Him. Is this belief in line with the truth? How should one understand God's appearance and work? What kind of mysteries does the appearance of God contain?

 

[dianegcook]

Many believers in the Lord believe that the Lord will return in glory, descending on a cloud and appearing to all peoples, so they are always gazing at the clouds in the sky, waiting for the Lord to come down on a cloud, and to be raptured up into the heavens and meet with Him. Is this belief in line with the truth? How should one understand God's appearance and work? What kind of mysteries does the appearance of God contain?

As far as the gathering, yes, this takes place, but some folks timing is off.
I believe it to be at the last trump, the 7th.
After the tribulation.
You will not have to look up at the clouds, He is coming here.
God is a consuming fire.
We all will be changed..to our spirit body, per se.
Flesh which cannot enter heaven, is burnt up.

2Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements (evil rudiments) shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Nathan12]

Many believers in the Lord believe that the Lord will return in glory, descending on a cloud and appearing to all peoples, so they are always gazing at the clouds in the sky, waiting for the Lord to come down on a cloud, and to be raptured up into the heavens and meet with Him. Is this belief in line with the truth?

If that is the case, then it means that the doctrines of the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming have not been taught properly in the churches. And there is a lot of false teaching about Bible prophecy also.

1. The Resurrection/Rapture is strictly for those who are children of God and are within the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). This is for the purpose of the ultimate perfection and glorification of the saints, prior to the Marriage of the Lamb. After they meet the Lord in the air (and all this takes place in nanoseconds), all the saints will return to Heaven with Christ (1 Thess 4:13-18 and other Scriptures) for the Marriage of the Lamb (after the judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ, for the works of Christians).

2. Following the Marriage of the Lamb, Christ descends to earth with His saints and angels (Rev 19), and since they are all dressed in white and radiating light, they give the appearance of clouds surrounding Christ. And He comes to judge the unsaved inhabitants of the earth (Rev 1:7; Jude 1:14,15). He comes "with clouds" not "on a cloud".

All of this is absolutely in line with Bible truth, and this is simply a brief summation.

How should one understand God's appearance and work?

The Second Coming of Christ is one of the most important doctrines of Scripture, since that triggers the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth as a real, visible, physical, tangible Kingdom, which replaces all the kingdoms of the world for eternity.

What kind of mysteries does the appearance of God contain?

Many details of what happens after the Second Coming have not been revealed. But a careful study of both the Old and New Testaments is necessary to see what has been revealed. It will be a glorious Kingdom with Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[dianegcook]

If that is the case, then it means that the doctrines of the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming have not been taught properly in the churches. And there is a lot of false teaching about Bible prophecy also.

1. The Resurrection/Rapture is strictly for those who are children of God and are within the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). This is for the purpose of the ultimate perfection and glorification of the saints, prior to the Marriage of the Lamb. After they meet the Lord in the air (and all this takes place in nanoseconds), all the saints will return to Heaven with Christ (1 Thess 4:13-18 and other Scriptures) for the Marriage of the Lamb (after the judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ, for the works of Christians).

2. Following the Marriage of the Lamb, Christ descends to earth with His saints and angels (Rev 19), and since they are all dressed in white and radiating light, they give the appearance of clouds surrounding Christ. And He comes to judge the unsaved inhabitants of the earth (Rev 1:7; Jude 1:14,15). He comes "with clouds" not "on a cloud".

All of this is absolutely in line with Bible truth, and this is simply a brief summation.


The Second Coming of Christ is one of the most important doctrines of Scripture, since that triggers the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth as a real, visible, physical, tangible Kingdom, which replaces all the kingdoms of the world for eternity.

Many details of what happens after the Second Coming have not been revealed. But a careful study of both the Old and New Testaments is necessary to see what has been revealed. It will be a glorious Kingdom with Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords.

I just can't see how you say the saints return to heaven with Christ in 1Thess.4:13-18, when in 1Thess.4:14 states, those whom sleep, rest, in Jesus will God bring with Him.?
He is coming here to reign during the millennium.
Rev.20:6
Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, onsuch the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God, and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a 1000 years.
Millennium...

The 7th trump, last
Rev.11:15
And the 7th angel sounded, and there were great voices in heaven saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ, and He shall reign 4ever.
The Great voices in heaven are angels and the ones that have passed on. Rev.11:11, 1Thess.4:14.
As also in Mark 13:26,27
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and Glory.
Shall gather together His elect from earth and heaven.

 

[Nathan12]

just can't see how you say the saints return to heaven with Christ in 1Thess.4:13-18, when in 1Thess.4:14 states, those whom sleep, rest, in Jesus will God bring with Him.?

The ones who come with Christ ("will God bring with Him") at the Resurrection/Rapture are those saints (souls and spirits) who passed on, and will now receive glorified resurrection bodies. This is the main harvest of the First Resurrection. The Millennium is much later.

 

[dianegcook]

The ones who come with Christ ("will God bring with Him") at the Resurrection/Rapture are those saints (souls and spirits) who passed on, and will now receive glorified resurrection bodies. This is the main harvest of the First Resurrection. The Millennium is much later.

I believe the Day of the Lord, Lord's day, is the millennium.
As stated in 2Pet.3:10-12

Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

In Rev.19:4
The armies in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Is these not the ones that passed on?


Then in Rev.19:17-20
It states an angel told all the fowls to come and gather yourselves unto the supper of the Great God,
That they may eat the flesh of all men.
Thus, all have been changed to their spiritual bodies.
No more flesh.
The beast and false prophet were cast into the lake of fire.


In Rev.20:4-6
Saw the souls of them that were beheaded, and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years....
This is the first resurrection.
But they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Nathan12]

I believe the Day of the Lord, Lord's day, is the millennium. As stated in 2Pet.3:10-12

1. The Day of the Lord (a period of severe divine judgments and wrath) is totally different from "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week), because that is when the Lord rose from the dead, and that day is reserved for the Lord's Table and the Lord's Supper). That is the day of Christian worship, thus John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). Matthew Henry has some excellent comments on this verse in his commentary.

2. The Millennium Kingdom of Christ is established after His Second Coming, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

3. The Second Coming of Christ occurs only after the Day of the Lord [which corresponds to the Great Tribulation and the 7th trumpet judgments (the 7 vials of God's wrath)].

4. While Peter also includes the supernatural burning up of the earth within the day of the Lord, it will actually precede the establishment of the New Heaven and the New Earth (which is after the Millennium).

There is a logical progression to these events if we take Revelation in a generally chronological sequence.

 

[dianegcook]

1. The Day of the Lord (a period of severe divine judgments and wrath) is totally different from "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week), because that is when the Lord rose from the dead, and that day is reserved for the Lord's Table and the Lord's Supper). That is the day of Christian worship, thus John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). Matthew Henry has some excellent comments on this verse in his commentary.

2. The Millennium Kingdom of Christ is established after His Second Coming, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

3. The Second Coming of Christ occurs only after the Day of the Lord [which corresponds to the Great Tribulation and the 7th trumpet judgments (the 7 vials of God's wrath)].

4. While Peter also includes the supernatural burning up of the earth within the day of the Lord, it will actually precede the establishment of the New Heaven and the New Earth (which is after the Millennium).

There is a logical progression to these events if we take Revelation in a generally chronological sequence.

I do not take it in chronological sequence.
The wrath of God only comes once.
A seal
Rev.6:17
For the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand.

A trump
Rev.11:18
And the nation's were angry, and Thy wrath is come...

A vial
Rev.16:17
It is done...

I believe that the seals, is knowledge of the trumps that are about to sound. Sealed in their forehead, mind. To recognize which trump is being sounded.
Imho, waiting and watching for that last, 7th trump to sound, which is when the True Christ returns.

The trumps are the action of the seals.

The vials are the wrath that pours out, of the reaction of the trumps and seals. They pour out on the ones that took the mark, were deceived by the false one, which if they were sealed with this knowledge, they would know that the false one comes first.

The seals, trumps and vials are one in a same.

Rev.12:1-17
Covers a long period of time, even back to Christ crucified..
Rev.12:5
Mother Israel brought forth a man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron, and her child was caught up unto God, and to His Throne. Christ crucified and sitting on the right hand.

Also in Rev.1:6,7
Behold, He cometh with clouds, and Every Eye, shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him.

Imho, this is the Day of the Lord.
Hath made us kings and priests.

Rev.20:6
..they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a 1000 years.

And I really don't understand your statement that Christ returns after the day of the Lord????
The day of the Lord is when He rules here for a thousand years, one day. Millennium.

As stated in 2Peter3:8-10

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a 1000 years, and a 1000 years as one day.
The day of the Lord. Millennium.

But the day of the Lord, is when all the evil rudiments will be burnt up, at His return.
The vials of wrath being poured.

But to each his own, good talking with you.

 

[JohnDB]

So....
I'm wondering if Iris Willson is going to reveal to us that God has become flesh again and is busy in China...

From his link:
In the last days, as promised and foretold by Himself, God has again become flesh and descended to the East of the world—China—to do the work of judgment, chastisement, conquest, and salvation using the word, on the foundation of the redemption work of the Lord Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a Great Tribulation. No one will know the day or the hour of Christ return, Matthew 24:36, but scripture does give us signs to watch for, especially Matthew 24:29-31. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through including God's great wrath to come before the new heaven and new Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven. Matthew 24:36, 37; Deuteronomy 4:30; Matthew 24:21; Acts 14:22; Romans 5:17; Matthew 24:13.

God's great wrath during the sounding of the seven trumpets in Revelations is poured out into the world in hopes all would turn back to Him as He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9. This is the ending of God's long suffering and patience like that of Sodom and Gomorrah, Genesis 18, 19. We are kept by God during these times of temptation during His great wrath that we not turn away from Him, but stand strong in faith that is Christ Jesus and our promised inheritance of the kingdom of God, 1 Peter 1:5-23. We are not to fear that which must come first nor what man can do to us, Matthew 10:28, and also forewarned to flee when we see the abomination that causes desolation that Daniel in Daniel Chpater 7spoke of, Matthew 24:15-21, Rev 13. God does not want us to fear those things which must come, but be prepared for those things which have to come first before Christ returns. If we are truly indwelled and sealed by the Spirit of God through repentance and faith that is Christ Jesus then we need not fear what man can do to the flesh as we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. We have died to self and we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. We will be the witness of Christ to the world when the last of the abominations take place and our only concern needs to be of us being the witness to the nations that God has called us to be.

It is so imperative to understand the full context of scripture so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns on the last day with His army of angels, Rev 19:11-21. (Note: No saints return with Him as no one has ever died and ascended up to heaven other than Christ who descended down from heaven to seek and save the lost, John 3:13-21.) At that time every eye will see Him come in the clouds the same way He ascended up to heaven, even those who pierced Him, Acts 1:11; Rev 1:7. Notice where it says even those who pierced Him as they are even now in their grave. On the last day after the seventh trumpet has sounded and the beast and false prophet are destroyed and cast into the lake of fire Satan is then bound for a time as the one and only resurrection of all who are in their grave will hear His voice calling them to come forth out of them. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29; 6:40.

At the great white throne judgement Jesus will be seated on His throne of glory as God commits all judgment unto the Son, John 5:22. The books will be opened, including the Lamb's book of life, and all will be judged as Jesus will then gather all nations (people) before Him and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. The sheep will hear Jesus say: "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world". The goats will hear Jesus say: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", Matthew 25:31-46.

Pretrib teachers twist and add to Rev 4:1, 2 to show we are caught up to Jesus before the great tribulation (God's great wrath). This is a deceptive teaching as it is only John being caught up in the Spirit while being a prisoner on the isle of Patmos as he sees a vision of a door opening before him. The first voice he heard speaking to him was that of great power and authority similar to the powerful sound a trumpet makes. The voice tells John to draw in closer to Gods Spirit to see the visions of those things that are yet future. After hearing this voice John was immediately immersed (slained) in the Holy Spirit and the visions were revealed to him. Being slain in the Spirit is like those disciples in John 18:6 who fell backwards when they realized the Spirit of Christ as being the I Am. It's also like that of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:3-8. Many, including myself, that have ever experienced this knows what I am talking about.

There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it. And every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation, Ephesians 1:13-14 and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.

1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
2Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[for_his_glory]

The ones who come with Christ ("will God bring with Him") at the Resurrection/Rapture are those saints (souls and spirits) who passed on, and will now receive glorified resurrection bodies. This is the main harvest of the First Resurrection. The Millennium is much later.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Why do people ignore this of what Christ has already said!!!

The only thing that goes back to God is our breath/spirit that made us a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[for_his_glory]

1. The Day of the Lord (a period of severe divine judgments and wrath) is totally different from "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week), because that is when the Lord rose from the dead, and that day is reserved for the Lord's Table and the Lord's Supper). That is the day of Christian worship, thus John was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10). Matthew Henry has some excellent comments on this verse in his commentary.

2. The Millennium Kingdom of Christ is established after His Second Coming, and the redemption and restoration of Israel.

3. The Second Coming of Christ occurs only after the Day of the Lord [which corresponds to the Great Tribulation and the 7th trumpet judgments (the 7 vials of God's wrath)].

4. While Peter also includes the supernatural burning up of the earth within the day of the Lord, it will actually precede the establishment of the New Heaven and the New Earth (which is after the Millennium).

There is a logical progression to these events if we take Revelation in a generally chronological sequence.

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase the day of the Lord” is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day beginning Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunrise.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel Jesus sent to him all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

 

[Nathan12]

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day beginning Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunrise.

1. If every day were the Lord's Day, then John would not have designated one specific day as the Lord's Day by divine inspiration.

1. If the Lord's Day were the Sabbath, then it would be called the Sabbath (and this is consistent in Scripture).
2. In the apostolic churches Christians were meeting on the first day of the week, and Paul also called the Sabbath days "shadows", the reality being Christ.
3. The testimony of Justin Martyr in the 2nd century confirms that the first day of the week (Sunday) was indeed the Lord's Day.
4. Conservative Christian commentators writing about Rev 1:10 invariably identify the Lord's Day with the first day of th week. Here is what the well-known Matthew Henry says:

"...3. The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice. 4. The frame that his soul was in at this time: He was in the Spirit. He was not only in a rapture when he received the vision, but before he received it; he was in a serious, heavenly, spiritual frame, under the blessed gracious influences of the Spirit of God..."

 

[Nathan12]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven... Why do people ignore this of what Christ has already said!!!

Your question should be "Why do people generally misinterpret John 3:13?

We know that both Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven before Christ's resurrection. And Christ was fully aware of this when He made that statement. Therefore He meant something other than what is assumed. What that verse tells us that Jesus is utterly UNIQUE among men. Not that the OT and NT saints are not in Heaven.

1. He is the only Man who actually descended from Heaven when He took the form of man in His incarnation.
2. He is the only Man who was resurrected for our justification, and ascended to the Father upon His resurrection.
3. He is the only man who is both Son of God and Son of Man.
4. He is the only Man who was still in Heaven (in Spirit) even while He was on earth in a human body.

For Scriptural evidence that all the saints who have passed on are in Heaven, please see Hebrews 12:22-24.

 

[for_his_glory]

1. If every day were the Lord's Day, then John would not have designated one specific day as the Lord's Day by divine inspiration.

1. If the Lord's Day were the Sabbath, then it would be called the Sabbath (and this is consistent in Scripture).
2. In the apostolic churches Christians were meeting on the first day of the week, and Paul also called the Sabbath days "shadows", the reality being Christ.
3. The testimony of Justin Martyr in the 2nd century confirms that the first day of the week (Sunday) was indeed the Lord's Day.
4. Conservative Christian commentators writing about Rev 1:10 invariably identify the Lord's Day with the first day of th week. Here is what the well-known Matthew Henry says:

"...3. The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice. 4. The frame that his soul was in at this time: He was in the Spirit. He was not only in a rapture when he received the vision, but before he received it; he was in a serious, heavenly, spiritual frame, under the blessed gracious influences of the Spirit of God..."

Only scripture confirms that of what is already written. It's man that changed the Sabbath day to Sunday as a day to worship their god Ra.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

John was only in the Spirit as he was on the isle of Patmos when he received these visions. He was never caught up to heaven as many pretrib teachers like to teach.

Every day is the Lord's day as He has given us every day from the beginning. The Lord's day is only found in Rev 1:10 and explicitly here only means a specific time that He purposes.

Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Sabbath is the seventh day, which by our calendar makes it a Saturday. It is the day God rested after creating everything including man and woman. God sanctified it meaning He set it apart form all the other days as a day He rested from all His work. From the time of Adam to that of Mt. Sinai it was never commanded as being a holy day or that all mankind was to rest on that day. It was a holy day as God being Holy and rested that day.

The Hebrew Sabbath was instituted by God given to Moses in Exodus 16 as a day that started from Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset as a day of remembrance or a memorial of the Exodus exile as God parted the sea bringing the Hebrews to the promised land by defeating their foes. Hebrews used a Lunar Calendar that is different from our Gregorian calendar we use today.

The Sabbath was a ceremonial law practiced and that of the Old Covenant, the same covenant that circumcised and sacrificed animals. Some may literally circumcise, but we do not sacrifice animals anymore. This ceremonial law was only for Israel and not the Gentiles as now under the new covenant that joins Israel and Gentiles together under the grace of God the ceremonial laws no longer exist as Jesus is now our sacrifice whom we find rest in.

 

[for_his_glory]

Your question should be "Why do people generally misinterpret John 3:13?

We know that both Enoch and Elijah went to Heaven before Christ's resurrection. And Christ was fully aware of this when He made that statement. Therefore He meant something other than what is assumed. What that verse tells us that Jesus is utterly UNIQUE among men. Not that the OT and NT saints are not in Heaven.

1. He is the only Man who actually descended from Heaven when He took the form of man in His incarnation.
2. He is the only Man who was resurrected for our justification, and ascended to the Father upon His resurrection.
3. He is the only man who is both Son of God and Son of Man.
4. He is the only Man who was still in Heaven (in Spirit) even while He was on earth in a human body.

For Scriptural evidence that all the saints who have passed on are in Heaven, please see Hebrews 12:22-24.

Sorry about the length of this, but full context is everything.

There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time of his life and that he was not found. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

Genesis 49: 30 In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a burying place. 31 There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah.

Heb 11:5 by faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.

Deu 34:6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.

2Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)

Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. What some people do not know is that there are three heavens. The first heaven is the Atmosphere, the air surrounding the earth. Birds fly "in the heaven" - certainly not to God's throne. We read in Genesis l:2 of "foul that may fly above the Earth in the open firmament of heaven." Jacob, when blessing Isaac, said: "God give you of the dew of heaven," and Moses was joyful that the "heavens shall drop down dew" (Gen.27:28; Deut.33:28). The dew comes from the first heaven - the atmosphere. The second heaven is the expanse of this awesome universe - where the stars, moon and planets are. The Psalmists often wrote about the "Heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon, and the stars, which you have ordained" (Ps.8:3; Gen.1:15-17). The third heaven is where the throne of God exists, where the heavenly temple is found and the heavenly Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.

Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.

Enoch died as per what Paul said In Hebrews 11:13 after speaking about all these men of faith that they all died in faith and never received the promise of heaven as one of the promises was a heavenly country, vs. 16. In Genesis 5:21-24 Enoch lived to be 365 years old and God took him. This is the same phrase in Psalms 37:36; 39:13; Matthew 2:18 to name a few that means they have passed away or would eventually die.

Psalms 89:48 David asked a question as he knew Enoch was dead in his grave. The words should not see death means that of the second death, John 8:51; 11:26; Rev 20:14, 15.

Based on Hebrews 9:27; 11:13; Romans 5:12-14 and all the scriptures I have given, especially John 3:13, no one has ever gone up to the third heaven, but only Christ. It's only man assuming without proof that say Elijah and Enoch were taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His throne. Scripture only says "they were not found".

 

[for_his_glory]

For Scriptural evidence that all the saints who have passed on are in Heaven, please see Hebrews 12:22-24.

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Only our names are written in heaven in the Lamb's book of life. Say's nothing about anyone who has died being in heaven.

 

[dianegcook]

The Spirit is the intellect of your soul. Self
All that is in the grave is your dead flesh.
You are in spiritual form in heaven, yourself.
As stated the spirit RETURNS to God.
The Spirit does not sleep.
If the spirit RETURNS to God, thus, we came from above.
We descended.
One must descend to ascend.

Just like in Rev.6:9-11
Saw the souls of them that were slain, crying with a loud voice, revenge our blood. And white robes were given to everyone of them.
The Spirit is the intellect of your soul. Self

Just like when you cut your toe nails, it was part of you, but no longer your flesh.
Flesh cannot enter heaven, but your spirit self does.
You know, that some folks were buried at sea. I'm sure there is nothing left of them, or some at the World Trade Center, nothing left of their flesh.
So how will these sleep in the grave?
What will be resurrected?
Their spirit, mind , self is in heaven already.


Spirit, Strong's #7307 Hebrew, meaning
Breath, , a region of the sky, life, it's expression and functions, courage, anger, mind.

The dead in Christ shall rise first, those who are alive and remain cannot prevent, precede, them, because they are already there.

God will bring them back with Him.
Meet them in the air, Spirit, as the definition above, a region of the sky. 1Thess.4:14-17

Jesus is our rest.
Heb.4:1-11

 

[DiscipleDave]

Many believers in the Lord believe that the Lord will return in glory, descending on a cloud and appearing to all peoples, so they are always gazing at the clouds in the sky, waiting for the Lord to com down on a cloud, and to be raptured up into the heavens and meet with Him. Is this belief in line with the truth? How should one understand God's appearance and work? What kind of mysteries does the appearance of God contain?

When the Lord Jesus Returns to the Earth, during the 7th Trumpet sounding, He is bringing with Him the HOLY CITY JERUSALEM. This City will indeed be so Tall that it is above the clouds. The 7 seals and the 6 Trumpets create a New Earth and a New Heaven (Atmosphere)

6th Seal = a great earthquake, sun becomes black , moon becomes as blood, stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. (Meteor Shower hits the Earth every where) And the heaven (our atmosphere) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together, every mountain and island moved out of their places.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

1st Trumpet = Hail and fire mingled with blood, are cast upon the earth, All grass is burnt up, 1/3 of all Trees on the planet are burned,

2nd Trumpet = An asteroid the size of a mountain hits the ocean, 1/3 of all life in the ocean dies. 1/3 of all oceans become blood.

3rd Trumpet = a small comet explodes in our atmosphere poisoning 1/3 of all fresh water on the planet.

4th Trumpet = Earth spins faster, lose 4 hours in a day and 4 hours in a night.

Mat 24:29 Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened (6th seal), and the moon shall not give her light (6th seal), and the stars shall fall from heaven (2nd and 3rd Trumpets), and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (7th Trumpet): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (and with the Holy City Jerusalem)
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (7th Trumpet), and they shall gather together his elect (RAPTURE) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (the dead saints He will raise first, then the living will be raised after they are)

By the time the 7th Trumpet is Blown and Jesus Returns with the Holy City where we Saints will live with the Father and Jesus, the old Earth will be destroyed, the old Heaven (atmosphere) is destroyed. The Reign of Jesus Christ on Earth will begin, and all Heathens and left behind Nicolaitan Christians will be made to come up and worship Jesus Christ to the HOLY City Jerusalem from year to year.

All this said above is TRUE and NONE of it contradicts any Scriptures. Contradicts what this generation believes with their own interpretations, oh yeah. But again, NOTHING said above contradicts any Scriptures, why? Because it is TRUTH.

 

[Nathan12]

When the Lord Jesus Returns to the Earth, during the 7th Trumpet sounding, He is bringing with Him the HOLY CITY JERUSALEM.

This certainly DOES NOT correspond to Scripture. Indeed, the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven a long time after the Second Coming (at least 1,000 years, if not more). And it does not descend to earth but remains a heavenly body, giving light to the earth. The sequence of events between the Second Coming and the New Heavens and the New Earth is spelled out in Revelation chapters 19-22.