Growth Do You Value the Church?

[Sandy Zalecki]

"But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God." 1 Timothy 3:15

Jesus died to purchase the church. His blood redeemed the soul of every member. Christ values the church highly. Do you?

What is the meaning of church for you? Is it the people that the Lord came down from heaven and died for or is it a building that you go to every Sunday? Many of us think of the church as a place we go to every Sunday, but in reality it is a living, breathing organism made up of people that the Lord died for and saved from sin and death.

The church is a safe place to walk with others who have the same mindset that we have. It is a place to fine a Godly marriage partner who you can share your life with. It is a place to learn how to have a disciplined spiritual life and a place to learn discipleship. It is often used as a place that will bring you back from the brink of disaster.

Take time to worship God and thank Him for the body of Christ. Cherish the church and every fellow member.View attachment 4292

 

[Deborah13]

"But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God." 1 Timothy 3:15

Jesus died to purchase the church. His blood redeemed the soul of every member. Christ values the church highly. Do you?

What is the meaning of church for you? Is it the people that the Lord came down from heaven and died for or is it a building that you go to every Sunday? Many of us think of the church as a place we go to every Sunday, but in reality it is a living, breathing organism made up of people that the Lord died for and saved from sin and death.

The church is a safe place to walk with others who have the same mindset that we have. It is a place to fine a Godly marriage partner who you can share your life with. It is a place to learn how to have a disciplined spiritual life and a place to learn discipleship. It is often used as a place that will bring you back from the brink of disaster.

Take time to worship God and thank Him for the body of Christ. Cherish the church and every fellow member.View attachment 4292

The church is a safe place....If only this were always true......

But even if it is not so in your church I do believe that it our responsibility to do whatever we can, by example, to cause it to be true. Christ working in and through us.

Good post.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Not all churches are that great. Around here ("Bible Belt," USA), we have lots of mega-churches (they scare me), dead churches (PCUSA, anyone?), and church splits. I'm not saying The Church as a whole is no good--far from it, really--but I am saying that because of multiple factors, the local church is becoming less and less able to disciple people and less and less "relevant" (sorry) to a lot of peoples' lives.

I think that before repentance I didn't want to "do" church because I was caught up in the whole church-as-control thing (blame it on sociology classes and the general post-modernism of our society). Now, I'm frightened of church because of bad experiences and an increasing awareness that many churches just aren't doing what the NT church did: offering a refuge from the world where all sorts of people can come together and be disciples, conformed unto the image of Jesus, and grow together, be disciplined if necessary, so on and so forth.

I think that, for me, dealing with church people has meant dealing with some of the more reactionary and conservative elements of society. For someone "in recovery from mental illness," that's rough, and day-to-day life tends to be rough, anyway (although I have it easy compared to your typical "former mental patient," truth be told). I'm also an ex-gay, so there's *that* to contend with. Gay-affirming churches are more or less apostate; more traditional churches have lots of homophobes in them. Ugh!

Sorry. I like your post, I just want to point out that, for a lot of people, "doing church" can be a painful experience.

 

[Deborah13]

Not all churches are that great. Around here ("Bible Belt," USA), we have lots of mega-churches (they scare me), dead churches (PCUSA, anyone?), and church splits. I'm not saying The Church as a whole is no good--far from it, really--but I am saying that because of multiple factors, the local church is becoming less and less able to disciple people and less and less "relevant" (sorry) to a lot of peoples' lives.

I think that before repentance I didn't want to "do" church because I was caught up in the whole church-as-control thing (blame it on sociology classes and the general post-modernism of our society). Now, I'm frightened of church because of bad experiences and an increasing awareness that many churches just aren't doing what the NT church did: offering a refuge from the world where all sorts of people can come together and be disciples, conformed unto the image of Jesus, and grow together, be disciplined if necessary, so on and so forth.

I think that, for me, dealing with church people has meant dealing with some of the more reactionary and conservative elements of society. For someone "in recovery from mental illness," that's rough, and day-to-day life tends to be rough, anyway (although I have it easy compared to your typical "former mental patient," truth be told). I'm also an ex-gay, so there's *that* to contend with. Gay-affirming churches are more or less apostate; more traditional churches have lots of homophobes in them. Ugh!

Sorry. I like your post, I just want to point out that, for a lot of people, "doing church" can be a painful experience.

I understand CE and agree with you.
The truth is that if one can find a really good church they will always uplift those who are among them, in just the ways you have stated.
If you had been in my old church in CT you would have been loved and respected for who you are and for your determination to live a Godly life. It wasn't perfect but no one could have asked for more caring people. They didn't give lip service to the Lord or the Lord's people.

 

[for_his_glory]

These verses pretty much sum up what Gods true Church and religion is. It's not the building with all it's fancy decor as it is one body united together in Christ exercising the gifts that have been given to each one of us to be able to lift up and edify one another keeping in that perfect will of God no matter where we are at. Even forums like this is Gods true Church as we come together in that unity that is Christ Jesus as we exercise the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the lifting up and edifing one another. We might not always agree with one another, but yet Christ is our focal point that unites us together as we believe in one Lord, one faith and one baptism.

Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Not all churches are that great. Around here ("Bible Belt," USA), we have lots of mega-churches (they scare me), dead churches (PCUSA, anyone?), and church splits. I'm not saying The Church as a whole is no good--far from it, really--but I am saying that because of multiple factors, the local church is becoming less and less able to disciple people and less and less "relevant" (sorry) to a lot of peoples' lives.

I think that before repentance I didn't want to "do" church because I was caught up in the whole church-as-control thing (blame it on sociology classes and the general post-modernism of our society). Now, I'm frightened of church because of bad experiences and an increasing awareness that many churches just aren't doing what the NT church did: offering a refuge from the world where all sorts of people can come together and be disciples, conformed unto the image of Jesus, and grow together, be disciplined if necessary, so on and so forth.

I think that, for me, dealing with church people has meant dealing with some of the more reactionary and conservative elements of society. For someone "in recovery from mental illness," that's rough, and day-to-day life tends to be rough, anyway (although I have it easy compared to your typical "former mental patient," truth be told). I'm also an ex-gay, so there's *that* to contend with. Gay-affirming churches are more or less apostate; more traditional churches have lots of homophobes in them. Ugh!

Sorry. I like your post, I just want to point out that, for a lot of people, "doing church" can be a painful experience.

Not all churches are that great. Around here ("Bible Belt," USA), we have lots of mega-churches (they scare me), dead churches (PCUSA, anyone?), and church splits. I'm not saying The Church as a whole is no good--far from it, really--but I am saying that because of multiple factors, the local church is becoming less and less able to disciple people and less and less "relevant" (sorry) to a lot of peoples' lives.

I think that before repentance I didn't want to "do" church because I was caught up in the whole church-as-control thing (blame it on sociology classes and the general post-modernism of our society). Now, I'm frightened of church because of bad experiences and an increasing awareness that many churches just aren't doing what the NT church did: offering a refuge from the world where all sorts of people can come together and be disciples, conformed unto the image of Jesus, and grow together, be disciplined if necessary, so on and so forth.

I think that, for me, dealing with church people has meant dealing with some of the more reactionary and conservative elements of society. For someone "in recovery from mental illness," that's rough, and day-to-day life tends to be rough, anyway (although I have it easy compared to your typical "former mental patient," truth be told). I'm also an ex-gay, so there's *that* to contend with. Gay-affirming churches are more or less apostate; more traditional churches have lots of homophobes in them. Ugh!

Sorry. I like your post, I just want to point out that, for a lot of people, "doing church" can be a painful experience.

I agree with you. There are many bad churches and people out there that go to church. One of the things that we don't have in America that would solve some of those issues is persecution. Persecution weeds out those who aren't serious and it also binds people together. The American Church has basically been free of persecution for the last 400 years. If we ever come to that, believe me that church will be a better place. None of us look forward to that option I'm sure. Until then it is up to the true Body of Christ to live the life and show others by our example how we should live. If you stick around a church long enough you will find those who are true, loving peolple that want to serve the Lord. I have found many on this forum that are very dedicated to the Lord. You must be discerning and patient.

 

[Andrew Mason]

The church has it's issues, but it will ALWAYS be Jesus' bride. When you talk about the church, always remember that you're talking about His bride, the object of His affection.

I'm a pastor. Please pray for me that I will keep Jesus #1 in my life, family and leadership and that the church will step into her destiny as the hope of a lost and hurting world.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

The church has it's issues, but it will ALWAYS be Jesus' bride. When you talk about the church, always remember that you're talking about His bride, the object of His affection.

I'm a pastor. Please pray for me that I will keep Jesus #1 in my life, family and leadership and that the church will step into her destiny as the hope of a lost and hurting world.

When we talk about the Bride of Christ we have to understand that not everyone that comes to church is a part of the Bride. I think these "imposters" are what people see that discourages them from wanting to join the Body of Christ. Many of them end up a deacons, church board members, and leaders because they have money and influence.

As a pastor I would think you would have to be very careful of who you put in positions of power in your church. You would need to prayerfully consider each one to see if they are the ones that God wants before making them a leader.

I will definitely pray for you. Pastors need prayer more today than ever. They are under attack.

 

[Andrew Mason]

Not everyone who comes to church is living for Christ, but everyone coming to church isn't an imposter either. The church has a lot to work on, but remember, a pastor is a biblical leadership position. For the church to be existing, there has to be teachers, pastors, evangelists, prophets and apostles. Someone out there has to be doing it right, or there is no church today.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I go to Calvary Chapel.
That's my church.
Ever go to a church that has no name?

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I go to Calvary Chapel.
That's my church.
Ever go to a church that has no name?

I used to go to Calvary Chapel. What a mess. Not all Calvary Chapels are that way, but the one I went to was really messed up. That was because the pastor was not a Biblical leader. It was crazy. I just wonder. Did the house churches in New Testament have names, bi-laws, boards, corporate charters, and organizational charts? Or did they just get together to worship the Lord and encourage one another?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I used to go to Calvary Chapel. What a mess. Not all Calvary Chapels are that way, but the one I went to was really messed up. That was because the pastor was not a Biblical leader. It was crazy. I just wonder. Did the house churches in New Testament have names, bi-laws, boards, corporate charters, and organizational charts? Or did they just get together to worship the Lord and encourage one another?

My good friend, Mike DiSanza (International Cops for Christ) did a house church for about 15 years at his house in the Bronx, New York.
Sometimes when he would come home from work, he couldn't get into his house because it was overflowing with people.
He never changed it and he never had a name.

 

[Obadiah]

I don't see what's wrong with a church having a name. It lessens confusion, and we are told this is a good thing. The early churches had names. They were called "The Church at Ephesus", "The Church at Corinth", etc. Of course with Christianity and the church being so new at the time, there weren't so many individual churches that they needed any more distinction than this. I see no prohibition in scripture against giving a church a name, nor do I see any prohibition against using modern techniques to run a church as long as the main objective is kept in sight.

It's great (and VERY rare) that someone starts a home church that stays in existence for more than a few months to a couple of years, and even greater that it grows to the point that it is overflowing! But at that point I think it's time to get a bigger building. There is no requirement that Christians are only allowed to meet together in people's homes just because it was done that way 2000 years ago. If that home is too full then they are essentially having to turn people away. Why would they want to turn people away?

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I don't see what's wrong with a church having a name. It lessens confusion, and we are told this is a good thing. The early churches had names. They were called "The Church at Ephesus", "The Church at Corinth", etc. Of course with Christianity and the church being so new at the time, there weren't so many individual churches that they needed any more distinction than this. I see no prohibition in scripture against giving a church a name, nor do I see any prohibition against using modern techniques to run a church as long as the main objective is kept in sight.

It's great (and VERY rare) that someone starts a home church that stays in existence for more than a few months to a couple of years, and even greater that it grows to the point that it is overflowing! But at that point I think it's time to get a bigger building. There is no requirement that Christians are only allowed to meet together in people's homes just because it was done that way 2000 years ago. If that home is too full then they are essentially having to turn people away. Why would they want to turn people away?

I don't have a problem with a church having a name. I do, however, have a problem with a church being unequally yoked with the world. When you get a 501c3 or become a corporation you are yoked with the government and you have to organize the way they want and abide by their rules. What if the rules don't line up with scripture? What do you do then? I have known so many church boards that have gone against the Godly wishes of the pastor even to the extent of taking the church away from them. I understand that is necessary if the pastor is doing something ungodly, but many times it is just because the board wants the power.

I don't believe that church gatherings should be big. If they get to be more than 25 a new leader should be trained and a new group started. The leaders should get together periodically to make sure they are all on the same page. That is the way it worked in the New Testament. The big box churches don't seem to be working today. Maybe we should go back to the old way of doing things.

 

[Gary]

I don't have a problem with a church having a name. I do, however, have a problem with a church being unequally yoked with the world. When you get a 501c3 or become a corporation you are yoked with the government and you have to organize the way they want and abide by their rules. What if the rules don't line up with scripture? What do you do then? I have known so many church boards that have gone against the Godly wishes of the pastor even to the extent of taking the church away from them. I understand that is necessary if the pastor is doing something ungodly, but many times it is just because the board wants the power.

Many don't realize that 501c3 status means the church relinquishes any and all control to the government.

I don't believe that church gatherings should be big. If they get to be more than 25 a new leader should be trained and a new group started. The leaders should get together periodically to make sure they are all on the same page. That is the way it worked in the New Testament. The big box churches don't seem to be working today. Maybe we should go back to the old way of doing things.

The size of the gathering isn't the problem, in my opinion, it's the message being preached. It's just as easy for 25 to hear the message as it is for 25,000. If a church is falling short, it's not because of the numbers...just my opinion.

That 501c3 status may be one of the reasons for the condition of the church.

James 1
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.


It's kinda hard to keep oneself unspotted from the thing that's pulling their strings.

.

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Many don't realize that 501c3 status means the church relinquishes any and all control to the government.





The size of the gathering isn't the problem, in my opinion, it's the message being preached. It's just as easy for 25 to hear the message as it is for 25,000. If a church is falling short, it's not because of the numbers...just my opinion.

That 501c3 status may be one of the reasons for the condition of the church.

James 1
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.


It's kinda hard to keep oneself unspotted from the thing that's pulling their strings.

.

Yes the message being preached is definitely a problem and it is nearly impossible to be unspotted by the world today unless you become a hermit without a phone, internet, TV. or radio. That's not really possible either. I really don't like huge churches though. It is so easy to get lost in them. I think that being up close and personal with people is very important for their Christian walk. I guess a church of 25,000 would be Ok if all of them would go to a small group gathering every week.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

okay, this is a 'little' 'cynical' perhaps..... but hopefully somewhat thought and action provoking , into God's Word.

do the red blood cells in our body get together once a week, or twice, or three times ?

joyfully or sorrowfully. in health, in sickness, in life. how often should God's people get together to do His will, according to Scripture ?

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

okay, this is a 'little' 'cynical' perhaps..... but hopefully somewhat thought and action provoking , into God's Word.

do the red blood cells in our body get together once a week, or twice, or three times ?

joyfully or sorrowfully. in health, in sickness, in life. how often should God's people get together to do His will, according to Scripture ?

Not nearly often enough. In our church we get together once a week on Sunday. My husband and I started a Bible study so that we could get together one other day during the week. It is difficult to get them to come because they are so busy. Why are we to busy to come together with God's people and share the love of Christ?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Not nearly often enough. In our church we get together once a week on Sunday. My husband and I started a Bible study so that we could get together one other day during the week. It is difficult to get them to come because they are so busy. Why are we to busy to come together with God's people and share the love of Christ?

the answer to that question is (according to Scripture) both devastating and embarrassing. I don't remember the verse, chapter or even the book --- when (and later) i want to find it, i search >biblegateway devastating embarrassing message<.
that probably finds it.
i'll look later if no one else finds it by then, Yhwh willing, JOYFULLY!

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

I look forward to your answer from scripture.