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Doctrine of Predestination

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But no Calvinist believes that God does moral wrong. It is only anti-Calvinists who think the Calvinist view makes God do moral wrong. Whatever God does is just and holy no matter what puny creatures think about it.
The doctrines Calvinists embrace describe moral wrong and they believe He does it. Your last sentence does Him no honor at all.

If we ask a Calvinist if God arbitrarily selects some for Heaven no matter what they do, that is unjust and morally wrong.
 
I didn’t. It doesn’t give you the license to accuse God of evil. He doesn’t do moral evil. But if a creature decides to accuse him of evil by twisting the meaning, it can always be done.
Yes you did. According to that scripture, who turned mens hearts to hate ? Ps 105:25

He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.

Now is morally evil to hate Gods people ?
 
Yes you did. According to that scripture, who turned mens hearts to hate ? Ps 105:25

He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.

Now is morally evil to hate Gods people ?
The way you see the matter is not the way God is. But since you embrace willingly that God does evil, no man can explain Gods ways to you. They are higher than your understanding.
 
Hi yall its Jay.

I personally am a calvinist and believe in destiny.

I think Judas in the bible wasn't actually a true disciple, but someone that posed as a true disciple to fulfill God's purpose.

I personally believe that to believe Judas was good with God until he betrayed Jesus goes against predestination.

Hi Jay,

Welcome to the Forum. God bless you.

Judas was indeed predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son, and reign and rule with Christ and the other 11 in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28



I personally believe that to believe Judas was good with God until he betrayed Jesus goes against predestination.

Judas Iscariot was indeed a disciple of Jesus Christ and was promoted to an Apostle with the other 11.

Then he became a traitor.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16



JLB
 
The way you see the matter is not the way God is. But since you embrace willingly that God does evil, no man can explain Gods ways to you. They are higher than your understanding.
Who turned their heart to hate Gods people according to Ps 105:25
 
That's because as somebody earlier quoted:
'People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe.' (Andy Rooney).
So please tell me, according to Ps 105:25 who turned their hearts to hate Gods people ?
 
So please tell me, according to Ps 105:25 who turned their hearts to hate Gods people ?
I think me and you are on the same page. But let me say something.
Psa 105:24 And the LORD made his people very fruitful and made them stronger than their foes.
Psa 105:25 He turned their hearts to hate his people, to deal craftily with his servants.

This is talking about the time in when Pharaoh died and a new one arose. Exodus 1:8-15

But let's look at another passage where somebody was moved to do something.
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

So, did the Lord use Satan to move David to number Israel? Reading the two passages they seem to be talking about the same incident.

In other words, God was the ultimate cause and Satan was the proximate cause.

A proximate cause is an event which is closest to, or immediately responsible for causing, some observed result. This exists in contrast to a higher-level ultimate cause which is usually thought of as the "real" reason something occurred.
 
I think me and you are on the same page. But let me say something.
Psa 105:24 And the LORD made his people very fruitful and made them stronger than their foes.
Psa 105:25 He turned their hearts to hate his people, to deal craftily with his servants.

This is talking about the time in when Pharaoh died and a new one arose. Exodus 1:8-15

But let's look at another passage where somebody was moved to do something.
2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
1Ch 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

So, did the Lord use Satan to move David to number Israel? Reading the two passages they seem to be talking about the same incident.

In other words, God was the ultimate cause and Satan was the proximate cause.

A proximate cause is an event which is closest to, or immediately responsible for causing, some observed result. This exists in contrast to a higher-level ultimate cause which is usually thought of as the "real" reason something occurred.
Im going to ask you once more friend. According to Ps 105:25 who turned the hearts of those men to hate Gods people ?
 
Im going to ask you once more friend. According to Ps 105:25 who turned the hearts of those men to hate Gods people ?
It is not for us to judge the infinite wisdom of God Isa 55:9 in whom there is no evil James 1:13. His ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
 
It is not for us to judge the infinite wisdom of God Isa 55:9 in whom there is no evil James 1:13. His ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts are higher than our thoughts.
They are only higher than others when ours are in the gutter. Read the whole of that chapter. He tells the wicked man to forsake his ways. God says, “let him who boasts, boast in this, that he understands me.”
 
They are only higher than others when ours are in the gutter. Read the whole of that chapter. He tells the wicked man to forsake his ways. God says, “let him who boasts, boast in this, that he understands me.”
Is this what you are referring to?

Thus says the LORD: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD who practices steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the LORD.” (Jer 9:23-24 ESV)

I do not see God's ways only being higher than man's ways, when ours are in the gutter. Man is wicked, God is holy.

Jer_9:23-24
All subjects of boasting have been proved untrustworthy; but one remains—not wisdom, not valor, not riches, but the knowledge of the revealed God.

The knowledge of God relates to three leading attributes, the combination of which is very instructive. First, loving-kindness. This is not to be understood in a vague and general sense of the love of God to all mankind; the term has a special connotation with regard to the Israelitish people. God shows loving-kindness to those with whom he is in covenant; hence the combination "loving-kindness and faithfulness" (Psa_85:10, corrected version), and as here (comp. Psa_5:7, Psa_5:8; Psa_36:5, Psa_36:6), "mercy and righteousness." Israel is weak and erring, and needs mercies of all sorts, which Jehovah, in his "loving-kindness," vouchsafes. Next, judgment, or justice. Jehovah is a King, helps the poor and weak to their right, and punishes the wrong-doer (comp. Jer_21:12). Then, righteousness—a similar but wider term. This is the quality which leads its subject to adhere to a fixed rule of conduct. God’s rule is his covenant; hence "righteousness" shows itself in all such acts as tend to the full realizing of the covenant with Israel, including the "plan of salvation." It is by no means to be confined to exacting penalties and conferring rewards.
(The Pulpit Commentary)
 
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