Doctrine of the Trinity

[jocor]

"Lord" (Gk kurios) corresponds to the Hebrew Adonai (Adonay), and is also used in conjunction withYahweh (YHWH = LORD) the personal name of the Lord God Almighty. The reason LORD has been applied to 1 Cor 15:47 is because Jesus is here called "the Lord from Heaven".

You are assuming the "kurios" of 1Co 15:47 is a reference to "Yahweh" (LORD). "Kurios" was used of men many times. You are also the only one I know of that makes such an erroneous application.

This is a direct reference to Yahweh in Isaiah 6:1-4 where Adonai is found in verse 1 and Yahweh is found in verse 3. Isaiah saw a vision of God upon His throne. The significant thing is that this passage in Isaiah is referred to by the apostle John in John 12:41 with reference to Jesus, and the context of this verse is John 12:35-41. John says (v. 41): "These things said Esaias [Isaiah] when he saw His [Jesus'] glory, and spake of Him [Jesus]." Isaiah saw the glory of the LORD God Almighty, and recorded the seraphim as saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD [YHWH] of Hosts: the whole earth is full of His glory". But John, writing under Divine inspiration, applied this to Jesus. This is yet another Scriptural "proof" of the Deity of Christ.

As I understand John 12:41, it is not a reference to Yeshua, but to Yahweh (Yeshua's Father). A superficial reading leads one to believe that the "his" and "him" of verse 41 refers to Yeshua and ties in with verse 37. For the sake of clarity I will quote these verses with [brackets] designating the speaker.

Jn.12:37,38, "But though he [Yeshua] had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him [Yeshua]: That the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he [Isaiah] spake, Lord, 'who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Yahweh been revealed?'
​

(The underlined is a quote from Is.53:1. The "arm of Yahweh" is Isaiah's reference to the Messiah). The passage continues with verses 39-41;

"Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, 'He [Yahweh] hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I [Yahweh] should heal them.' These things said Isaiah, when he [Isaiah] saw his [Yahweh's] glory, and spake of him [Yahweh]."
​

Verse 40 (underlined) is a quote from Is.6:10. John is quoting a second passage from Isaiah to show why they could not believe on Yeshua; because Yahweh blinded them. Verse 41 therefore, is referring to Is.6:10, not Is.53:1. In Is.6:1-3 Yahweh is seen in all His glory. That is the glory referred to in John 12:41. It was not Yeshua's glory.

 

[Gregg]

.

Yeshua was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev 13:8). He was in the Father's plan of salvation in His mind. Yahweh foreknew him before the world was created (1Pe 1:20).

The Son of God became the Man Jesus Christ [God with us]; He became the Lamb of God within His creation; although He existed as God before creation. Not only was Jesus Christ in the Father's mind before the world was created, but the Son of God was with Him before creation, "and the Word was with God" (Jn 1:1, see Jn 1:2). The Son of God, "who subsisting in the form of God . . . emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having become in the likeness of men" (Php 2:6-7).

The Son of God as Immanuel, the Lamb of God, was something new to man and to the angels, as the Son of God was "found in fashion as a man" (Php 2:8). Perhaps the angels were fearful of worshiping Immanuel, God in the flesh, as the Father thought it necessary to tell the angels, "And let all the angels of God worship Him" (Heb 1:6 LITV, Deu 32:43 LXX).

As I understand the trinity doctrine, it states the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate persons. Yet, Isaiah 44:24 says Yahweh created "by myself". There was no other person helping Him. Isaiah 45:12 says "my hands" stretched out the heavens. There were no other hands helping Him. Other verses say Yahweh "spoke" and things were created. One person spoke. How do you harmonize these verses with three persons? Did three persons create using six hands and three mouths?

Jocor, God is Spirit; but you understand what a hand is and what God means when He speaks of His hand. God is One; Father, Son, and Spirit. The Son became Immanuel; He became the Lamb of God according to the will of His Father. The LORD Jesus Christ is not just a Man, but God as a Man, Immanuel; God having taken a body of flesh and blood.

"So says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the One who formed him . . . I have made the earth, and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands; and I have set all their host in order" (Isa 45:11-12). The LORD who made the earth and created man is the Son of God that John wrote about, "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being" (Jn 1:3 LITV), and "the world came into being through Him" (Jn 1:10 LITV). John was writing about the LORD [Yahweh], the Son of God, whom we know as the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Doctrine of the Trinity

I saw pastor Gino Jennings tonight shoot down the Trinity, even though this is not the first time by a long shot that I have heard this. He talked about the fact that it is found nowhere in the Bible. So what do some of you say about the Doctrine Of The Trinity, do you believe it or not ? So tonight I did something that I had never did before about the Trinity I researched it deeper that on the surface stuff I did years ago And here is what I come up with, there is a lot of info here, that I am reading just for study purposes.

Historical Background of the Trinity
(Link removed as it teaches that Jesus was not the Son of God. ToS 2.1: "
Do not make statements either by posts or posting URLs to other Websites which advocate activities, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by the christianforums.net Leadership's sole discretion. Obadiah)

Well, I now know why I never care to be seated in his teaching, he is a false teacher. In the Creation Account God said "let us." Jesus is recorded in the Inspired, by God, Word of God, that He, the Son of God, obeys the Father's will. Jesus promised that when He left us He would sent the Comforter, the third person of the Trinity that we, today, know as the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost.

He that teaches there is no Triune God lies, harsh but true.

 

[JLB]

.

The Son of God became the Man Jesus Christ [God with us]; He became the Lamb of God within His creation; although He existed as God before creation. Not only was Jesus Christ in the Father's mind before the world was created, but the Son of God was with Him before creation, "and the Word was with God" (Jn 1:1, see Jn 1:2). The Son of God, "who subsisting in the form of God . . . emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having become in the likeness of men" (Php 2:6-7).

The Son of God as Immanuel, the Lamb of God, was something new to man and to the angels, as the Son of God was "found in fashion as a man" (Php 2:8). Perhaps the angels were fearful of worshiping Immanuel, God in the flesh, as the Father thought it necessary to tell the angels, "And let all the angels of God worship Him" (Heb 1:6 LITV, Deu 32:43 LXX).


Jocor, God is Spirit; but you understand what a hand is and what God means when He speaks of His hand. God is One; Father, Son, and Spirit. The Son became Immanuel; He became the Lamb of God according to the will of His Father. The LORD Jesus Christ is not just a Man, but God as a Man, Immanuel; God having taken a body of flesh and blood.

"So says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the One who formed him . . . I have made the earth, and created man on it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands; and I have set all their host in order" (Isa 45:11-12). The LORD who made the earth and created man is the Son of God that John wrote about, "All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being" (Jn 1:3 LITV), and "the world came into being through Him" (Jn 1:10 LITV). John was writing about the LORD [Yahweh], the Son of God, whom we know as the LORD Jesus Christ.

:amen

 

[jocor]

.

The Son of God became the Man Jesus Christ [God with us];

As I understand the name Immanuel (God with us - more correctly, El with us), it doesn't mean Immanuel was God in the flesh. It means God is with us because God is in him (Messiah). IMO, this name is to be understood in the light of Acts 10:38; "How [Yahweh] anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for [Yahweh] (El) was with him." Not that Yeshua was El, but that El was with and in Yeshua. Consider the name Jehu. In Hebrew, this name means "He is Yah" or "Yah is He." Does that mean the man Jehu is, in reality, Yahweh? No. Neither does "God with us" mean Yeshua is God.

He became the Lamb of God within His creation; although He existed as God before creation. Not only was Jesus Christ in the Father's mind before the world was created, but the Son of God was with Him before creation, "and the Word was with God" (Jn 1:1, see Jn 1:2).

IMO, the Son is being read into John 1:1-4. It is an assumption to say the logos/word was the Son. Our English Bibles that preceded the KJV understood the logos as an "it", not a "he". For example, Tyndale's Bible translates John 1:3 as follows;

"All things were made by it, and without it, was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and the life was the light of men."
​

The same holds true for the Geneva Bible, Matthew's Bible and the Great Bible.

The Son of God, "who subsisting in the form of God . . . emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, having become in the likeness of men" (Php 2:6-7).

I prefer the ESV:

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.​

As I understand it, verse 6 does not say "he was God", but "was in the form of God".

Jocor, God is Spirit; but you understand what a hand is and what God means when He speaks of His hand. God is One; Father, Son, and Spirit. The Son became Immanuel; He became the Lamb of God according to the will of His Father. The LORD Jesus Christ is not just a Man, but God as a Man, Immanuel; God having taken a body of flesh and blood.

Yes, I realize God does not have hands as we do. In my view, God cannot become a man. He can indwell a man which is why Yeshua said, "the Father that dwells in me, he does the works." The only true God was living IN Yeshua. Yeshua was not the only true God as I understand Yeshua himself to teach in John 17:3.

 

[Rick W]

God cannot become a man

Are there any other limitations of God you would be privy to?

 

[jocor]

Are there any other limitations of God you would be privy to?

Yes. He cannot die because He has inherent immortality; He cannot not know something because He is omniscient; and He cannot swear by anyone greater than Himself (Heb 6:13). Yeshua died and he did not know when he would return.

 

[th1b.taylor]

As I understand the name Immanuel (God with us - more correctly, El with us), it doesn't mean Immanuel was God in the flesh. It means God is with us because God is in him (Messiah). IMO, this name is to be understood in the light of Acts 10:38; "How [Yahweh] anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for [Yahweh] (El) was with him." Not that Yeshua was El, but that El was with and in Yeshua. Consider the name Jehu. In Hebrew, this name means "He is Yah" or "Yah is He." Does that mean the man Jehu is, in reality, Yahweh? No. Neither does "God with us" mean Yeshua is God.



IMO, the Son is being read into John 1:1-4. It is an assumption to say the logos/word was the Son. Our English Bibles that preceded the KJV understood the logos as an "it", not a "he". For example, Tyndale's Bible translates John 1:3 as follows;

"All things were made by it, and without it, was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and the life was the light of men."
​

The same holds true for the Geneva Bible, Matthew's Bible and the Great Bible.



I prefer the ESV:

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.​

As I understand it, verse 6 does not say "he was God", but "was in the form of God".



Yes, I realize God does not have hands as we do. In my view, God cannot become a man. He can indwell a man which is why Yeshua said, "the Father that dwells in me, he does the works." The only true God was living IN Yeshua. Yeshua was not the only true God as I understand Yeshua himself to teach in John 17:3.

Jocor, You have a lot of opinions and they mean nothing for, like mine, they are opinions and have nothing to do with the Word of God. God, one God, represented by the three persons of the Triune God taught by the scriptures, is the Omnipresent, Omnipotent God that keep the Earth in His care is not weak. Three times in the Holy Scriptures we are warned of the curse of God if we add or we subtract from His word.

You appear to believe that God is unable to keep the translations of His message pure and I content that He is still in control and that from, well, before the, falsely, coveted KJV, He has kept His word pure. When we return to the first German and English translation, preceding the KJV and we compare them with the translations of today they are in agreement. The sentence structuring and choice of words relate more to our understanding today to make it relevant and to maintain the meanings and I will, until I pass over, continue to praise god for His hand on the writers for it is true He is omnipotent and omniscient.

The only modern English translation I am aware of that disagrees with the others is the NWT of the JWs and I have not seen where God has done a single thing to bless them or their twisting of the scriptures. Even the ones that have shown up on my door step do not use it, so it is withering like fruit left on the vine.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yes. He cannot die because He has inherent immortality; He cannot not know something because He is omniscient; and He cannot swear by anyone greater than Himself (Heb 6:13). Yeshua died and he did not know when he would return.

Jocor, sorry, but have you read any of the translations of the New Testament? Jesus, the human died the physical death. The Spirit, the Son of God, has never and will never die, nor has anyone here claimed the Spirit died.

 

[jasonc]

Jocor, You have a lot of opinions and they mean nothing for, like mine, they are opinions and have nothing to do with the Word of God. God, one God, represented by the three persons of the Triune God taught by the scriptures, is the Omnipresent, Omnipotent God that keep the Earth in His care is not weak. Three times in the Holy Scriptures we are warned of the curse of God if we add or we subtract from His word.

You appear to believe that God is unable to keep the translations of His message pure and I content that He is still in control and that from, well, before the, falsely, coveted KJV, He has kept His word pure. When we return to the first German and English translation, preceding the KJV and we compare them with the translations of today they are in agreement. The sentence structuring and choice of words relate more to our understanding today to make it relevant and to maintain the meanings and I will, until I pass over, continue to praise god for His hand on the writers for it is true He is omnipotent and omniscient.

The only modern English translation I am aware of that disagrees with the others is the NWT of the JWs and I have not seen where God has done a single thing to bless them or their twisting of the scriptures. Even the ones that have shown up on my door step do not use it, so it is withering like fruit left on the vine.

the NWT doesn't even support the watchtower on their views.

 

[jocor]

Jocor, You have a lot of opinions and they mean nothing for, like mine, they are opinions and have nothing to do with the Word of God. God, one God, represented by the three persons of the Triune God taught by the scriptures, is the Omnipresent, Omnipotent God that keep the Earth in His care is not weak. Three times in the Holy Scriptures we are warned of the curse of God if we add or we subtract from His word.

You appear to believe that God is unable to keep the translations of His message pure and I content that He is still in control and that from, well, before the, falsely, coveted KJV, He has kept His word pure. When we return to the first German and English translation, preceding the KJV and we compare them with the translations of today they are in agreement. The sentence structuring and choice of words relate more to our understanding today to make it relevant and to maintain the meanings and I will, until I pass over, continue to praise god for His hand on the writers for it is true He is omnipotent and omniscient.

The only modern English translation I am aware of that disagrees with the others is the NWT of the JWs and I have not seen where God has done a single thing to bless them or their twisting of the scriptures. Even the ones that have shown up on my door step do not use it, so it is withering like fruit left on the vine.

I'm not sure why you still believe God kept translations pure after I just showed you the difference between the KJV and the translations preceding it as far as John 1:3 is concerned. We have the KJV reading "Easter" instead of "Passover" in Acts 12:4. What happened there? We have almost all English translations of the OT using "the LORD" in place of the true Name of our Creator. Yahweh could have kept them pure, but He chose not to. I believe He expects us to study and restore that which was corrupted, especially His Name.

Here is just one example where modern translations disagree with each other:

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify: NASB
1Jn 5:7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. ASV

 

[JLB]

Yes. He cannot die because He has inherent immortality; He cannot not know something because He is omniscient; and He cannot swear by anyone greater than Himself (Heb 6:13). Yeshua died and he did not know when he would return.

He was made a little lower than the angels.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. 10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. Hebrews 2:9-10

He was made or became flesh.

As a Man, He had the ability to die, as God we know He never died but went into the heart of the earth and preached to the spirits in prison.

As a Man who "became" a little lower than the angels He was limited in Knowledge, as God...

Notice the phrase here in Hebrews 2:10 that it by Him, [Jesus] that all things are, and by whom are all things, which is a designation to the Creator of all things.

No amount of odd or perverted translations can explain away the full counsel of God in the scriptures that show Jesus Christ as God our Savior, as YHWH our Lord.

13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:13-14

Is Jesus Christ your Savior, or is it another?


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

In the universal context, God is the exception because God is not created, but The Creator. Thus when God extends Himself into His creation, His presence is an exception to everything else. It is the exceptional nature of The Word, expressed to us as Jesus, that allowed Him to conquer death from the sin permeating creation; a feat only God could do.

If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then Christianity is no different than any number of faiths that venerate an enlightened mortal man who conveyed a value system. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then under Moses' Law the Jews were absolutely justified in their rejection, condemnation, and execution of Jesus. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then Muslims are justified under islam in the murder of Christians for idolatry. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then He can't forgive, redeem, or save.

But underneath it all, if Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then we can hold on to the idea that somehow, through our own efforts, we can become as glorified as Him. Vanity?

 

[Rick W]

Yes. He cannot die because He has inherent immortality; He cannot not know something because He is omniscient; and He cannot swear by anyone greater than Himself (Heb 6:13). Yeshua died and he did not know when he would return.

All these things you mention give Him unlimited power. But He cannot become a man due to the singular thinking of His creation, man. That's what man sees, what he experiences, what he is. Through the lens of man's feeble understanding comes the declaration of God's feeble ability to become, to be, not one but three.

 

[th1b.taylor]

the NWT doesn't even support the watchtower on their views.

LOL!

 

[Gregg]

As I understand the name Immanuel (God with us - more correctly, El with us), it doesn't mean Immanuel was God in the flesh. It means God is with us because God is in him (Messiah). IMO, this name is to be understood in the light of Acts 10:38; "How [Yahweh] anointed Yeshua of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for [Yahweh] (El) was with him." Not that Yeshua was El, but that El was with and in Yeshua. Consider the name Jehu. In Hebrew, this name means "He is Yah" or "Yah is He." Does that mean the man Jehu is, in reality, Yahweh? No. Neither does "God with us" mean Yeshua is God.

Immanuel does mean God in the flesh; not merely a created representative of God, but God Himself - as Isaiah writes Isa 8:8-10, Isa 9:6-7; so John writes "the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us" (Jn 1:14); and Paul says "God was manifested [φανερόω] in flesh" (1Tim 3:16); φανερόω - openly/outwardly rendered apparent.

IMO, the Son is being read into John 1:1-4. It is an assumption to say the logos/word was the Son.

You ignore "and the Word was with God" (Jn 1:1). The Word was not God the Father, but draws a distinction in Person between the Father and the Word. Seriously, would John write that God was with Himself? I think not.

Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.​

As I understand it, verse 6 does not say "he was God", but "was in the form of God".

"in the form of God" can mean nothing less than existing as God the Father. It also says that He has equality with God.

Yes, I realize God does not have hands as we do. In my view, God cannot become a man. He can indwell a man which is why Yeshua said, "the Father that dwells in me, he does the works." The only true God was living IN Yeshua. Yeshua was not the only true God as I understand Yeshua himself to teach in John 17:3.

Would you explain 'Yeshua was not the only true God'?

 

[Kathi]

The Trinity is very difficult for us as humans to understand.God is greater than we are and we can not sometimes comprehend that of God.
Each member of the Trinity is God.The Father is God John 6:27;Romans 1:7
The Son is God John 1:1;Romans 9:5
The Holy Spirit is God Acts 5:3-4;1 Corinthians 3:16
There is subordination within the Trinity.Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son,and the Son is subordinate to the Father.Although this does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity.
Each member of the Trinity has their own tasks
The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6;Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17;14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6;John 1:3;Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1,16:12-15;Matthew 11:27;Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19;Matthew 1:21;John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2;Job 26:13;Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15;Ephesians 3:5;2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6;Titus 3:5;1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1;Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html#ixzz3JGLEk2Ij

I imagine each one of us have been given examples to help us to see the Trinity.For me it was an apple.And apple has three parts the skin,the meat and the seeds but it is one apple.

 

[jocor]

He was made a little lower than the angels.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. 10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. Hebrews 2:9-10

He was made or became flesh.

As a Man, He had the ability to die, as God we know He never died but went into the heart of the earth and preached to the spirits in prison.

He did not preach to anyone while he was dead those three days. The "spirits in prison" refers to those fallen angels mentioned in 2Pe 2:4 and Jude 1:6 who were alive during Yeshua's earthly ministry. He obviously preached to them through the power of the Holy Spirit while he was yet alive. Once a person dies he knows nothing (Eccl 9:5). I do not see a "God" part of Yeshua that did not die. If that was true, then the Son did not really die.

Notice the phrase here in Hebrews 2:10 that it by Him, [Jesus] that all things are, and by whom are all things, which is a designation to the Creator of all things.

Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.​

This verse, as I understand it, implies a being other than Yeshua that created everything "for" and "through" him. IMHO, all of Hebrews 2 declares a being greater than Yeshua who has the power to put everything in subjection to His Son; to raise him from the dead; to make him lower than angels; to crown him with glory, etc.

Is Jesus Christ your Savior, or is it another?

JLB

My Savior is Yeshua Messiah who is also called by the erroneous man-made name "Jesus"..

 

[jocor]

In the universal context, God is the exception because God is not created, but The Creator. Thus when God extends Himself into His creation, His presence is an exception to everything else. It is the exceptional nature of The Word, expressed to us as Jesus, that allowed Him to conquer death from the sin permeating creation; a feat only God could do.

If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then Christianity is no different than any number of faiths that venerate an enlightened mortal man who conveyed a value system. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then under Moses' Law the Jews were absolutely justified in their rejection, condemnation, and execution of Jesus. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then Muslims are justified under islam in the murder of Christians for idolatry. If Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then He can't forgive, redeem, or save.

But underneath it all, if Jesus is not the exception, is not God, then we can hold on to the idea that somehow, through our own efforts, we can become as glorified as Him. Vanity?

I fully agree that Yeshua is an exception, not because he is God, but because he is the Son of God and Messiah of Yahweh.

 

[jocor]

Immanuel does mean God in the flesh; not merely a created representative of God, but God Himself - as Isaiah writes Isa 8:8-10, Isa 9:6-7; so John writes "the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us" (Jn 1:14); and Paul says "God was manifested [φανερόω] in flesh" (1Tim 3:16); φανερόω - openly/outwardly rendered apparent.

As I understand it, the reading of 1Tim 3:16 in the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

You ignore "and the Word was with God" (Jn 1:1). The Word was not God the Father, but draws a distinction in Person between the Father and the Word. Seriously, would John write that God was with Himself? I think not.

I did not say the Word was God the Father. the logos/word, as I understand it, is Yahweh's spoken words and thoughts. They were with Him in the beginning.

"in the form of God" can mean nothing less than existing as God the Father. It also says that He has equality with God.

So, you are telling me that the preexistent Son was existing as God the Father?? What happened to three separate persons?? Does this symbol of the trinity contradict your words?

Would you explain 'Yeshua was not the only true God'?

Yeshua said, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent."​

Yeshua, in his prayer to his Father, referred to his Father as the only true God. He then referred to himself as the one sent by the only true God. To me, that means Yeshua was saying he was not the only true God.