I was at Barnes and Noble on a few occasions when I saw a magazine on the rack called "Skeptic". On the front cover there read the heading, "Why atheism and IQs are rising". This sounded very biggoted to me, for it is an absurdity to presume that people are smarter just because they are atheists. I didn't read the article, although I probably should have, but it makes me wonder how many people actually believe that Atheists are more intelligent than religious people. Einstein believed in God, and he was the smartest man in human history. Many Astronamers believe in God as well, and that is a very difficult field, so I don't see how this idea took root. Now assuming that the article itself doesn't advocate such an idea, but means to introduce atheism and rising IQ levels as two seperate subjects, why would they even put the words "atheism" and "rising IQ levels" in such proximity of each other? Could it be that atheists associate Godlessness with intelligence or knowledge? What are your thoughts?
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[_ Old Earth _] Does Atheism Make People Smarter?
- Thread starter azlan88
- Start date
ChattyMute
Member
azlan88 said:
Atheism in an do itself does not make people smarter.
The title is probably referring to why atheists percentages are rising and IQ's separately, and they might have tried to correlate it like they did here: http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm However, correlation does not imply causation. There are stupid and smart atheists just as there are stupid and smart theists.
It is also my opinion that there are multiple intelligences. For example musical intelligence vs. book smarts. Some people may be looking at just the scientific field, which has more atheists/agnostics than theists, and think that that automatically means atheists/agnostics are smarter.
I think you should read an article before jumping to conclusion's because I really doubt what you think the article was about is what it was actually about. And you shouldn't generalize so much about atheists.
Aero_Hudson
Member
I would imagine, without seeing the article, to draw a statistically significant correlation between IQs and atheism would be hard to do. Just because one rises at the same time of the other does not necessarily mean they are linked. The world is a complex place and there most probably is a number of factors relating to increase in IQ. The prevelance of higher learning, the internet and broad communication of information just to name a few.
In order for me to think this contention had any weight they would have to have some data linking the two.
In order for me to think this contention had any weight they would have to have some data linking the two.
Brokendoll
Member
azlan88 said:
This.
ChattyMute said:
In other words; even if the majority of the scientists in the world do not believe in god (the surveys vary somewhat between 60% and above), that does not automatically mean that a correlation is proven fact.
Also I am prepared to agree with Chatty when he says:
ChattyMute said:It is also my opinion that there are multiple intelligences. For example musical intelligence vs. book smarts. Some people may be looking at just the scientific field, which has more atheists/agnostics than theists, and think that that automatically means atheists/agnostics are smarter.
azlan88 said:
Here, however, I have to correct you somewhat. Einstein did not believe in a personal god and only used the word as a generic statement of awe about the universe, which lead to the term "Einsteinian God" meaning simply that one admires the beauty and complexity of the world in which we live in without connecting it to anything supernatural.
In Einstein's own words:
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature." (Albert Einstein, The World as I See It)
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (Albert Einstein, 1954, The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)
Einstein did not believe in a personal God. Yes, this is true. However, he did believe in a masculine God that created the universe:
"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
"I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Hugo
Member
Apparently there's been some (not a lot) research and polls that may indicate that education has a negative effect on religious belief. As it's been mentioned, it's hard to establish the exact cause.
Also, it doesn't really apply to atheism, it just seems that education coincides (statistically) with a loss in the extent of religious belief.
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_ ... 3049-1.php
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris ... sp?pid=359
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/facult ... nd_Rel.pdf
Also, it doesn't really apply to atheism, it just seems that education coincides (statistically) with a loss in the extent of religious belief.
http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_ ... 3049-1.php
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris ... sp?pid=359
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/facult ... nd_Rel.pdf
ChattyMute
Member
azlan88 said:
Your whole post is speculation on what the title means without actually reading the article to see what the title actually means. I wasn't talking about you speculating on what it contains, just your speculation on what the title means. Conclusion's was the wrong word, I meant to say something more along the lines of you shouldn't speculate about what the title means without having read the article.
Brokendoll said:
She.
Brokendoll
Member
ChattyMute said:
Terribly sorry. "She" it is then.
Brokendoll
Member
azlan88 said:
All three of those quotes are so much poetic language. The general impression is that if Einstein considered god in his adulthood (he was a practicing Jew during most of his childhood) it was in the sense of a Spinozian god, which would mean that to him, if there was such a thing as god, god would be nature and the universe, and not a separate being in any meaningful sense.
Spinoza viewed God and Nature as two names for the same reality, and it appears that Einstein was of the same opinion.
But, this is going off topic, so let's get back on track shall we?
Physicist
Member
azlan88 said:
Einstein quote:
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
However, back to the OP, statistical correlations like the one implied in the Skeptics magazine are notoriously misleading. Correlation is not causation. The standard example I used to give my students is the positive correlation between 19th century New England minister incomes and the price of rum. Depending upon your predilection, you might (falsely) conclude that the Ministers were using their extra money to buy rum or that they were making profit on the side from the rum trade. The actual connection was that both were tied into the global economy and were both affected by it.
ChattyMute
Member
azlan88 said:
Get off your high horse. I know plenty of Christians who don't care about anybodies problems but their own. No one hates you for it caring about other people. That would be a good thing no matter what (non)-religion you are.
People usually don't like sharing their personal problems to complete strangers, or they could just like solving their problems on their own. Don't say that nobody likes it because you don't know everyone in the world.
And I like having my point of view challenged. It is dependent, at least partially, on the personality of the person.
ChattyMute
Member
azlan88 said:
Being your ego shown by the fact you think "everyone hates you too much". /Some/ people may hate Christians, but not for the reasons you think.
ChattyMute
Member
azlan88 said:
Christians deserve hate? No. Not for being Christian.
Because we don't believe the same as you? People don't not accept Christ because they think they are "too good to accept" him. They don't accept Christ because they don't beleive the same as you do. There is no ego involved there. (Maybe with some rebellious teens, but besides that).