Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

[_ Old Earth _] Does Atheism Make People Smarter?

I'd count as a humanist of sorts.

You can't assume that just because someone is atheistic they don't have morals or aren't charitable I myself donate to a homeless charity, Sometimes during the holidays I volunteer at Cancer research shop, And once I changed my gender I donated all my old guy clothes to charity too. I can't say if what I've done is enough or not but this isn't a competition.

Just because I don't believe in doing it just to score browny points with some dude who you reckon I'm gonna meet when I die Doesn't mean I'm devoid of any morality sense of community and empathy for others suffering.

Ultimately all I can do as an individual is promote a world I want to live in and that isn't one where people screw each other over.

Surely as a humanist then, you should have great respect for one of the greatest humanists ever to live after the close of the Middle Ages: (Desiderius) Erasmus von Rotterdam. He was a man of immense intelligence, was well versed in languages, and probably did more work on literature and translation than any person of his time contemporary with him.

Wikipedia gives succinct summary of some of his appellations and contributions:

Erasmus was a classical scholar who wrote in a "pure" Latin style and enjoyed the sobriquet "Prince of the Humanists." He has been called "the crowning glory of the Christian humanists." Using humanist techniques for working on texts, he prepared important new Latin and Greek editions of the New Testament.
...
Only when he had mastered Latin did he begin to express himself on major contemporary themes in literature and religion. He felt called upon to use his learning in a purification of the doctrine by returning to the historic documents and original languages of sacred Scripture. He tried to free the methods of scholarship from the rigidity and formalism of medieval traditions...

Read all of it here.

If you historically study any humanists, you should start with Erasmus.
 
To Chris:

I think you might be a bit confused about what an atheist actually is. There is no "belief system" of atheism beyond not believing in a god. And as my old Evolutionary Biology professor once told me, "Defining a group by what they DO NOT have is indicative that they most probably don't all belong together". This is true of atheists. The one unifying principle they have is a lack of belief in a particular thing (a higher power). Beyond that they have extremely varying outlooks on life that might be conducive to being charitable and might not be.

This is likely why you do not see any "atheist charities" if you use those terms in your google search. Atheism is not a religion in the sense that Christianity and Buddhism are religions. A charitable atheist is unlikely to classify their charity as an "atheist" organization, because what would the point be? The Bill and Melinda gates foundation is an example of a charity run by atheist people. Warren Buffet is an atheist that has donated large sums of money.

There is no "Atheist Philosophy" beyond a disbelief in a higher power. The things that drive Christians to go do work overseas are the same things that drive Atheists. A sense of moral obligation.

Warren Buffet: Atheist Philanthropist?
sorry to anyone who is of that non belief following this thread (though I cant imagine why an atheist would be in a christian forum)

It is not like me to post a controversial comment but I have been told so many times by people who claim atheism that my belief systems are a nonsensical joke.

though that is I must say by the minority. i guess when you think of something the big negatives come in first..

If anyone following this is atheist I know you guys are good people and do good charity stuff.

You know what would be funny now? if the phone rang and a telemarketer for a charity called me now because of my comment above. it's happened before. God does have a sense of humor.
 
Atheists are likely on the forum for two reasons:

1) To argue and demean a belief system because they are bigots.

2) To have open discussions about issues pertaining to Christianity, which is a belief system that has (whether we like it or not) shaped much of the world we live in. If I ate apples all day and never tried an orange, how would I know that I couldn't compare the two?:D (that was a pretty bad analogy....)
 
I was at Barnes and Noble on a few occasions when I saw a magazine on the rack called "Skeptic". On the front cover there read the heading, "Why atheism and IQs are rising". This sounded very biggoted to me, for it is an absurdity to presume that people are smarter just because they are atheists. I didn't read the article, although I probably should have, but it makes me wonder how many people actually believe that Atheists are more intelligent than religious people. Einstein believed in God, and he was the smartest man in human history. Many Astronamers believe in God as well, and that is a very difficult field, so I don't see how this idea took root. Now assuming that the article itself doesn't advocate such an idea, but means to introduce atheism and rising IQ levels as two seperate subjects, why would they even put the words "atheism" and "rising IQ levels" in such proximity of each other? Could it be that atheists associate Godlessness with intelligence or knowledge? What are your thoughts?

LOL! Talking to an atheist makes me realize I am smarter.
 
Now thats a little uncalled for! Talking to a DUMB atheist would make you feel smart. Talking to a smart atheist might make you feel dumb! The same could be said for an atheist talking to a smart or dumb Christian.

The only validity I could see in this study (and this is stretching it a bit), is that people who self-identify as atheists tend to (but obviously not always) have given their decision to label themselves as such a fair amount of thought.

I would argue that people who self-reflect etc. might be a little more "intelligent", whatever that means (I agree with a poster above who said there are many forms of intelligence). If you are comparing atheists with all self-identifying Christians, you would be comparing them with both "self-reflecting" Christians who have formed ideas about there faith, AS WELL as de facto Christians, who identify themselves as such simply because thats what they were told by their parents.

One could argue that people who simply reiterate what they were told they believe (eg. de facto Christians, who aren't really Christians but would be identified as such in the study) might have a little less intelligence than someone who forms their own beliefs based on their experiences.

I would presume there are more de facto Christians than de facto Atheists, but that number will probably even out in the next while as new generations are born.
 
Atheists are likely on the forum for two reasons:

1) To argue and demean a belief system because they are bigots.

2) To have open discussions about issues pertaining to Christianity, which is a belief system that has (whether we like it or not) shaped much of the world we live in. If I ate apples all day and never tried an orange, how would I know that I couldn't compare the two?:D (that was a pretty bad analogy....)
Bigots- you'll get in trouble for using that nasty word let me think......they are humanist dissagreers
 
Last edited by a moderator:
2) To have open discussions about issues pertaining to Christianity, which is a belief system that has (whether we like it or not) shaped much of the world we live in. If I ate apples all day and never tried an orange, how would I know that I couldn't compare the two?:D (that was a pretty bad analogy....)
I would disagree because Christianity has only effected the west in a monumental way, and most of the west still holds onto its ancient cultures. Especially Northern Europe and South America.

Asia has barely been effected by Christianity and still has lingering influence from Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism. Rome and Greece had more Impact on society as a whole then Christianity because that is where the birth of Science, Philosophy, and literature was founded. Not to mention the massive jumps in mathematics that would later be improved by Islamic nations. Christianity, on the other hand caused Europe to stunt into a dark age until the age of reason.
 
I would disagree because Christianity has only effected the west in a monumental way,

Lance in many ways i agree with you about how other countries haven't embraced Christianity but Christianity's influence on the European continent expedited education as the gospel spread and the need for literacy went with it. I was going to write a story about it but found it already written waiting cut and paste.
If asia has a hospital it might have Christianity to thank for starting the idea. so may asians might be unknowingly impacted by chrisitianity

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_36_35/ai_55553285/



Civilization Transformed

by Alvin J. Schmidt

Does it seem to you, too, that virtually any religion is held in higher regard than Christianity by those who strive to be "politically correct"?
Christianity may get no respect from the world, but the world would be a far different place - and a far worse one - had it not been for the followers of Jesus Christ.
As the early Christians began to spread out into the Roman world of 2,000 years ago, they could not have envisioned the powerful impact they would have on civilization. But their impact was powerful indeed.
Let's look at a few examples of what Christianity has meant to civilization.
Sanctification of life

Before Christians influenced Roman society during the first century, human life was cheap and expendable. Infanticide, child abandonment and abortion were legal and common. The slaughter of gladiators and other bloody forms of entertainment were widespread.
Christians courageously opposed Rome's low value of human life. To them, life was a sacred gift of God. It took centuries for their view to win important changes. In AD. 374, Valentinian (a Christian emperor) outlawed infanticide, abortion and child abandonment. At the same time, St. Basil of Ceasarea mobilized Christians to minister to woman facing unwanted pregnancies.
A generation later, Christian emperors banned the gladiator games, and they have never returned.
Dignity for women

Before Christianity arrived, women had little or no freedom or dignity in any culture. At the time of Christ, an Athenian woman, for instance, had to go to her quarters when her husband had male guests. She was not permitted to speak in public. She had virtually no rights. Historians say she had the status of a slave.
In Rome, the laws greatly curtailed a woman's life. For instance, she could not inherit property, appear in public without a guardian or testify in court.
If anyone doubts it was the teachings of Jesus that improved the life of women, let them ask: Where do women have the most freedom, opportunity and dignity? It is in countries where Christianity has had a major presence.
Christianity brought a new and wholesome view of women, which it received from Christ and the apostles. In preparing individuals for membership, the church never discriminated against women. This boldly defied cultural practices of the Greco-Romans. In teaching both sexes, Christians took their cue from Jesus, who taught men and women alike.
The Christian view of women equalized the sin of adultery by no longer defining it in terms of a woman's marital status only; a married man having sex with a single woman also was guilty of adultery.
Unlike the Roman woman, a Christian woman could reject a male suitor, inherit property, and she no longer had to worship her husband's gods. Said one historian, "The conversion of the Roman world to Christianity [brought] a great change in women's status."
Charity and hospitals

Jesus said: "I was sick and you looked after me" (Matt. 25:36). The early Christians took these words to heart, even though Romans saw helping a sick person as a sign of weakness. Plautus, a Roman philosopher in the second century B.C., declared that helping to keep a beggar alive was doing him and society a bad service. In the fourth century AD., many Romans panicked and fled from a contagious plague in Alexandria leaving friends and relatives behind to die.
But the Christians were different. They fed and nursed the sick - even total strangers - often succumbing themselves. Their compassion was so remarkable that the pagan emperor Julian the Apostate said, "The impious Galileans [his word for Christians] relieve both their own poor and ours." And he lamented, "It is shameful that ours [the poor] should be so destitute of our assistance."
It was in this merciless pagan environment that Christians built the world's first hospital in AD. 369. By 750, there were Christian hospitals across Europe. They builtnosocomia (for the sick only), morotrophia (for the mentally disturbed), gerontocomia(for the aged), orphanotrophia (for orphans), brephotrophia (for infants) andtypholocomia (for the blind).
The Christian stamp on hospitals is still with us, for many still bear Christian names as St. Luke's, St. John's, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, etc. Whenever you drive by a hospital, remember its Christian origin.
Science's Christian connections

Today, Christianity is often portrayed as an enemy to science. How untrue! It was Christian theology that motivated the early scientists to explore God's natural world. Alfred North Whitehead, a non-Christian philosopher of science, once said that "faith in the possibility of science. .. is an unconscious derivative from medieval [Christian] theology." Another writer stated that "the monk was an intellectual ancestor of the scientist."
Most of the pioneers of science were committed Christians: Robert Grosseteste, Roger Bacon, Francis Bacon, William Occam, Nicolaus Copernicus, Johannes Kepler, Blaise Pascal, Robert Boyle, Louis Pasteur and countless others. From the 12th century to the early 19th century, before methodological atheism appeared, every scientist tried to relate his scientific theory to Christian theology.
When Martin Luther challenged the authority of church hierarchy with "Sola Scriptura," the Reformation created an atmosphere of intellectual freedom of thought. When Copernicus stated that the earth travels around the sun, not the sun around the earth, it was two Lutheran friends who persuaded him to publish his work despite his fear of ridicule-not from the church, but from other scientists.
This is surprising to many people, because most only hear that Christian theologians condemned Copernicus' work.
It was Johannes Kepler (1571-1630), a devout Lutheran, who brought about acceptance of the heliocentric concept. Kepler's major contributions to understanding the universe included the first three laws of planetary motion.
Education's Christian roots

Universities grew out of the medieval monasteries, whose monks, unlike the Greeks, were not afraid to link theory with research, two vital ingredients of a university. While some of the universities' roots go back to the monasteries of the sixth century, the first university appeared in Bologna, Italy, in 1158. Soon others - all of them Christian institutions - appeared over much of Europe. Many colleges still have Christian connections.
While Christians were not the first to encourage formal education, they appear to be the first to teach both sexes in the same setting, and that was revolutionary thinking.
Johann Sturm, a 16th-century Lutheran educator, introduced the grade-level education system to motivate young students to advance to the next grade.
Abolition of slavery

Christianity has been on the forefront of fighting slavery, and the countries that first abolished slavery were countries where Christianity had the greatest presence. Where Christianity had little or no presence, slavery ended much later or, as in some Islamic-African countries, still exists today.
While some in the early church supported slavery, the early Christians freed thousands of slaves, baptized and received them as members, and communed them at their altars.
Long before the abolition movement in America, the first formal proclamation against slavery was issued in 1688 in Germantown, Pa., by Franz Pastorius, a German immigrant and a pious Mennonite. In the 1820s, William Wilberforce made powerful speeches fueled by his ardent Christian convictions to persuade the British Parliament to end slavery throughout its vast empire.


http://www.creationinthecrossfire.com/Articles/civilization.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ah sorry I agree with you guys about only shaping the west. I meant to say it has shaped my world significantly!
 
Back
Top