Does being Christian equate to elitism today?

[Isaiah28:7-8]

heres where you dont know about me, in my younger years when i got away from the jw's and into more and more new age and withcraft and eastern thought . i believed the bible wasnt complete and by divine revalation its what it should be.

what you call contradiction isnt.

if you and i watch an mma fight and you are boxer and i a grappler we will see what we are predisposed to see and comment on what could be done.
the same is with the gospel writers, they saw the lord from different angles and wrote from them. God does use personalities.

i respect ma a muslim as he claims the truth,but he is wrong based on what the bible says. He has convictions.Its possible to know what the lord wanted as he plainly stated what he wants.

btw i never said that any name other then jesus that is found to be in the bible cant be used. those are differing descriptions of the same God.

tell me this why wont a muslim make to heaven or a jew, or a hindu based on what the lord says? are you able to say that.

How is it not contradiction, matthew and luke give not just differing but opposite accounts, different events entirely, different genealogies, etc

* One says wise men came, one says shepherds.

* Only matthew mentions the star in the east.

* Only luke mentions the angels singing.

* Only matthew mentions Herod killing all the male babies in Judea.

* Matthew says Joseph and Mary lived in Bethlehem, moving to Nazareth after their flight into Egypt while Luke says Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth all along. Jesus was born in Bethlehem only because Joseph and Mary had traveled there to enroll in the census.

* Matthew lists between David and Jesus, 28 generations. Luke lists 41.They do not agree on the names of almost all the descendants.

Next topic.

You say God uses different personalities and that God has many descriptions.Yet you deny the possibility that not all names and forms are in the bible. You cannot ever know this for sure. You are guessing at this or assuming at best. Much of the life of God and even Jesus are left out of the bible.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

This says ALL MEN, not just those that believe but ALL MEN and then goes to say specially those that believe, it doesnt say that only those that believe will be saved. Why?

Can YOU answer me this?

I cannot agree with your fire and brimstone views brother. I cannot believe the things you talk of brother. You speak of exclusion and hatred in my opinion. You have much anger or fear in your heart it seems, it seems so in many words of you post are tinged with fear and anger in many posts. Perhaps you should examine your heart brother and ask yourself, "Am I living and acting as christ did or genuinely trying to?" I mean no offense but the things you speak of and the manners you speak are lacking in many ways and are very unchrist like. I expect no one to be perfect but we should all strive to be a living example of jesus and his teachings and works.

Jesus saved all men and healed all men. Jesus was a jew. Not even a christian as there was no christianity before christ and his life and death. The word messiah means annointed one. Yahshua, Yahusha and Yeshua, which mean "God Saves" or Salvation roughly. All the names mean the same thing but none are truly names per se. They all describe what Jesus or Yahshua does.

All will be saved and be redeemed through Jesus. He died to save us all, to pay for the sins of the world. He excluded no one.



ALL MEN.

 

[jasoncran]

the pushing of universalism to which you suscribe isnt tolereated here, and the lord did exclude

reconcile this john 3:17 whomsever hasnt believed on me has not eternal life but is condemned already.

we convict men on eye witness and none of them match exactly. (if more than one).

otherwise why even die for us as no man is wrong.

 

[Isaiah28:7-8]

the pushing of universalism to which you suscribe isnt tolereated here, and the lord did exclude

reconcile this john 3:17 whomsever hasnt believed on me has not eternal life but is condemned already.

we convict men on eye witness and none of them match exactly. (if more than one).

otherwise why even die for us as no man is wrong.

I am not pushing anything. And yes you are very intolerant. Intolerant of muslims, islam, buddhism, and anything that isnt directly your version of your beliefs. No offense intended. As a child of god how can you prescribe such intolerance?

Men convict men. Men are flawed. This is my point. Men are flawed. Men wrote the bible. Thus the bible may rightfully contain flaws as it was written by the hands of men and indeed there are some discrepancies in the scriptures. Biblical scholars know this.

Gods plan was for Jesus to die and resurrect to prove that he was the son of god. He died to conquer death and to pay for the sins of all men.Jesus is the flesh and blood embodiment of God and was meant to reveal God and Gods way to us.

First Epistle to the Corinthians 15:3–7: "... that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures"

Epistle to the Romans 1:3–4: "...concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord."<sup id="cite_ref-51" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus#cite_note-51</sup>

Jesus died out of great compassion for us and to show us the ultimate love of God.God loves the world. Not just hebrews or muslims or christians but the world.

Jesus, the perfect word of god, reveal to us who god was ultimately.

Without jesus' life and death, we would not be saved nor know God's ways.

 

[jasoncran]

of course he did, but one cant remain a muslim. what happens upon salvation what happens we become adopted to the family of god, he died for all but not all will accept him

didnt jesus say this for narrow is the way and few that be that find it.

if that is narrow then that is what god wanted one way.

again, when one becomes a believer one must change. if not then no heaven for you.

you err much in your exegesis.

jesus died for all so that all would can be forgiven not they that would be forgiven. to be forgiven one must repent then the cost paid will applied to your acct, theres verses for that.

you my friend are a universalist in approach , that isnt what the bible teaches.

 

[Isaiah28:7-8]

of course he did, but one cant remain a muslim. what happens upon salvation what happens we become adopted to the family of god, he died for all but not all will accept him

didnt jesus say this for narrow is the way and few that be that find it.

if that is narrow then that is what god wanted one way.

again, when one becomes a believer one must change. if not then no heaven for you.

you err much in your exegesis.

jesus died for all so that all would can be forgiven not they that would be forgiven. to be forgiven one must repent then the cost paid will applied to your acct, theres verses for that.

you my friend are a universalist in approach , that isnt what the bible teaches.

This is what YOU say brother but you cannot judge me only God can. You are not the spokesperson for God nor the bible.

You believe the bible teaches something and that all other ways are wrong period. You cannot know this is correct period. Do not try to assert your way is correct and anything else in the bible saying anything that differs is wrong. I have quoted the bible in my debate time and again and it contradicts what you say yet you say the fault lies with me. I did not write the bible nor speak what was spoken.

You constantly backpedal and offer nothing of value in return brother. All you can do is judge and judge. The bible has spoken out on the matter as have I.

I must disagree with your fire and brimstone antics as the bible says differently. You may believe whatever you like and I will respect that right but you cannot speak for God and the bible and claim you and only you know the answer.

Examine yourself before condemning others brother. You contradict yourself again and again saying something cannot happen then I offer evidence and your words change again and again to excuse it.

We must agree to disagree.

 

[jasoncran]

This is what YOU say brother but you cannot judge me only God can. You are not the spokesperson for God nor the bible.

You believe the bible teaches something and that all other ways are wrong period. You cannot know this is correct period. Do not try to assert your way is correct and anything else in the bible saying anything that differs is wrong. I have quoted the bible in my debate time and again and it contradicts what you say yet you say the fault lies with me. I did not write the bible nor speak what was spoken.

You constantly backpedal and offer nothing of value in return brother. All you can do is judge and judge. The bible has spoken out on the matter as have I.

I must disagree with your fire and brimstone antics as the bible says differently. You may believe whatever you like and I will respect that right but you cannot speak for God and the bible and claim you and only you know the answer.

Examine yourself before condemning others brother. You contradict yourself again and again saying something cannot happen then I offer evidence and your words change again and again to excuse it.

We must agree to disagree.

contradict, how he came to die for us all but not all men will accept him. there are men that did reject him in the bible

no, your evidence is a poor exegesis,
was paul wrong when he said that they do these things listed galatians 5 that are listed as fruits of flesh shall not inherent the kingdom of god?

was john wrong when he said that men would be outside the holy city in revalation that are doing the same that the apostle paul listed.

what you call evidence is only what you choose to support your case.

you have back peddled. i ask that you find me a verse on where God said that all would make it to heaven without believing and your response was this.

that quote where it say that all men that believe yet forget that part the said by the messiah (you admit this) that whomesover DOESNT believe hath not eternal life already and is condemned already.

is that not a contradiction? so the bible to you contradicts here.

agree to disagree indeed.

 

[Isaiah28:7-8]

contradict, how he came to die for us all but not all men will accept him. there are men that did reject him in the bible

no, your evidence is a poor exegesis,
was paul wrong when he said that they do these things listed galatians 5 that are listed as fruits of flesh shall not inherent the kingdom of god?

was john wrong when he said that men would be outside the holy city in revalation that are doing the same that the apostle paul listed.

what you call evidence is only what you choose to support your case.

you have back peddled. i ask that you find me a verse on where God said that all would make it to heaven without believing and your response was this.

that quote where it say that all men that believe yet forget that part the said by the messiah (you admit this) that whomesover DOESNT believe hath not eternal life already and is condemned already.

is that not a contradiction? so the bible to you contradicts here.

agree to disagree indeed.

Now you put words in my mouth of course and assume to know my intentions. What you call evidence is to support your case as well, so we are at an impass.

The bible is very contradictory and why because MEN wrote it over the span of many years. Many things contradict and do not match up.

This is fact.

I do not back peddle at all I gave my evidence and case and quoted the bible and gave more evidence than others in all my replies. I firmly stand where I do whereas your position has shifted around slightly due to various verses.

However your pentacostal beliefs are yours and not mine.You believe the bible is inerrant, I do not. You cannot force me to see your views periods. Thus an impass.

You have asked and I had responded brother but you failed to respond to more than one of my requests so are we both backpeddlers by your definition.

You have begun to put words in my mouth as I never said forget anything let alone other parts of the bible.

I forgive you brother and harbor no ill feelings but I cannot discuss this matter with you any longer as it not conducive to anything.

:nod

 

[jasoncran]

if the bible is that errant then why do you believe the cross and ressurection of the lord?

look to archeological findings for the accuracy of the bible. none of the ot has changed or the nt, if any errs its cause of wordings not actually meanings, and those are minor.

such as the johhanine comma in the kjv, the small s for the word Spirit that refers to the Holy Spirit.

only the bible states that claim that he died on the cross and was resurrected.

you arent pulling wool over me i used to believe alot of what you say.

i made that very clear, the holy spirit not men convinced me that the word was inerrant.

 

[Sparkey]

God will judge His people (and I think, those who falsely call themselves thus) first.

This is the time of Judgment, is it not? Can we agree to trust God and call for His Justice to be visited into our very lives? It's scary, perhaps - set fear aside. God will do what is needed in your life, trust Him implicitly, turn the microscope inward.

Yea, though He slay me, yet will I praise Him.

~Sparrow



PS - after having read through the thread perhaps we would do well to begin a couple bible studies elsewhere on our Forum? Tithing is misunderstood by many (and deserves a full treatment). Perhaps the Authority of the Word of God would be another bible study that could serve us well.

 

[Isaiah28:7-8]

if the bible is that errant then why do you believe the cross and ressurection of the lord?

look to archeological findings for the accuracy of the bible. none of the ot has changed or the nt, if any errs its cause of wordings not actually meanings, and those are minor.

such as the johhanine comma in the kjv, the small s for the word Spirit that refers to the Holy Spirit.

only the bible states that claim that he died on the cross and was resurrected.

you arent pulling wool over me i used to believe alot of what you say.

i made that very clear, the holy spirit not men convinced me that the word was inerrant.

Now I am being accused of trying to pull the wool over you?

I have said again and again believe your faith and I will believe my faith.Only god can know for sure whats true.

The holy spirit convinced you?

The bible being errant doesnt negate it entirely. It does however raise questions on some things.

If things are changed no matter how minor than is errant and not inerrant, IMO.

Ive also stated I believe in jesus, I believe he died on the cross so what is your point?

I also believe that all will be saved based on my studies and experiences.

I do not see why you insist on attacks and accusations and faith bashing again and again. I try to show respect for all faiths including yours but you show no tolerance for anything but your view. I do not think this is compassion, kindness or love but the way of hate and anger.

You have your beliefs allow me mine. This is not the era of hitler or stalin.

 

[jasoncran]

am i forcing you? nope.

am i making you think? nope

but what you think that some dont come on here in false pretenses. not saying that you are but you say you are one of us and yet deny the truth of the matter that God is really able to keep his word. and that he is the only way.

if that isnt denying the word of god is. you claim no man knows the way, yet you claim the bible as the truth? i think. yet you cant deny the words of moses in exodus when he states that no man can say that God didnt tell them.

 

[Vic C.]

Locked for the duration of time it takes me to decide what is and isn't relevant to the topic and clean it up.