Does Eve Deserve More Blame Than Adam?

[VirginShallConceive]

In our world of Christianity, and on these Christian forums, there is a wide spectrum of different "Christian" beliefs. There have been and still are lots of interesting discussions going on regarding Biblical interpretation and validity. The question I ask is the title of this thread:

Does Eve deserve more blame than Adam?

Paul the Apostle seems to think so:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Timothy 2:11-14


The simple answer is obviously "Yes" or "No". Here are some possible answers:


Yes. The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.

Yes. I am a Christian who has never read the Bible. I'm just your typical male chauvinist pig.

No. They were equally tempted and equally wrong. If Eve could convince Adam, I'm sure the snake could too. Eve was just the first person the snake talked to. I disagree with Paul on this. Paul was only human after all.

No. I am a Christian who believes that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. But, I do not accept 1 Timothy as part of my personal canon. There are arguments that suggest Paul wasn't even the author of 1 Timothy, and I lean toward those opinions.

No. From the story, they both look equal to me. But, who cares? It's only an ancient story that was passed down orally and probably evolved from earlier Mesopotamian mythologies. The men, and they were men, probably wrote down the final Genesis version we have today with Eve getting tricked first. Theirs was a male-dominated society, and they would just write down whatever they felt about women's inferiority. I am an atheist. Who in their right mind believes that there could possibly have been a talking snake anyway?

No. I am one of the few true Christians. I believe every single word of all 66 books of the Bible. The problem is that too many people take 1 Timothy out of context.


Of course, there are many more possible answers.

 

[BornAgain]

In our world of Christianity, and on these Christian forums, there is a wide spectrum of different "Christian" beliefs. There have been and still are lots of interesting discussions going on regarding Biblical interpretation and validity. The question I ask is the title of this thread:

Does Eve deserve more blame than Adam?

Paul the Apostle seems to think so:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Timothy 2:11-14


The simple answer is obviously "Yes" or "No". Here are some possible answers:


Yes. The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.

Yes. I am a Christian who has never read the Bible. I'm just your typical male chauvinist pig.

No. They were equally tempted and equally wrong. If Eve could convince Adam, I'm sure the snake could too. Eve was just the first person the snake talked to. I disagree with Paul on this. Paul was only human after all.

No. I am a Christian who believes that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. But, I do not accept 1 Timothy as part of my personal canon. There are arguments that suggest Paul wasn't even the author of 1 Timothy, and I lean toward those opinions.

No. From the story, they both look equal to me. But, who cares? It's only an ancient story that was passed down orally and probably evolved from earlier Mesopotamian mythologies. The men, and they were men, probably wrote down the final Genesis version we have today with Eve getting tricked first. Theirs was a male-dominated society, and they would just write down whatever they felt about women's inferiority. I am an atheist. Who in their right mind believes that there could possibly have been a talking snake anyway?

No. I am one of the few true Christians. I believe every single word of all 66 books of the Bible. The problem is that too many people take 1 Timothy out of context.


Of course, there are many more possible answers.

I posted this on another thread and thought it would be appropriate for your thread...you know more about the bible than what you give yourself credit for.

Then the man replied, “The woman You gave to be with me—she gave me [some fruit] from the tree, and I ate.â€â€”Genesis 3:12

Adam and Eve did everything they could to avoid taking responsibility for their sin. Adam blamed his wife: “She gave me of the tree.†He even pointed an accusing finger at God, saying it was “the woman, whom You gave me.†Eve blamed the serpent saying: “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.†God ignored their excuses and announced the judgment they would face as consequences for their disobedience.

One of the downfalls of mankind is that we refuse to take responsibility for our actions. We want to blame others for our problems: Our parents did not raise us well; our friends let us down; our pastor was not a good enough preacher; our children are rebellious; our employer is not sensitive enough; our spouse is not understanding; there is not enough time in the day . . . the excuses are plentiful!

Yet forgiveness and restoration cannot happen until we accept full responsibility for our actions.

An obvious sign that we have not genuinely repented is that we make excuses for our sinful behavior. Nowhere in Scripture does God excuse one person's sin because of someone else's actions.

If we make a habit of blaming others for our failures, we will not reach a point of honest repentance. God will hold us accountable for our own actions, not others 2 Cor 5:10. Strive always to acknowledge and take responsibility for your own sins. It will free you to receive God's forgiveness and to press on to spiritual maturity.

 

[BornAgain]

In our world of Christianity, and on these Christian forums, there is a wide spectrum of different "Christian" beliefs. There have been and still are lots of interesting discussions going on regarding Biblical interpretation and validity. The question I ask is the title of this thread:

Does Eve deserve more blame than Adam?

Paul the Apostle seems to think so:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Timothy 2:11-14

The position of women in public worship is that of a quiet learner in manner and in act, yielding submission in all lawful respects to the position God had placed man as leader of the worship in the public assembly of the church. This is given as the rule "in all the churches of the saints." 1 Cor 14:33-34.

 

[wayseer]

In our world of Christianity, and on these Christian forums, there is a wide spectrum of different "Christian" beliefs. There have been and still are lots of interesting discussions going on regarding Biblical interpretation and validity. The question I ask is the title of this thread:

Does Eve deserve more blame than Adam?

Paul the Apostle seems to think so:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Timothy 2:11-14


The simple answer is obviously "Yes" or "No". Here are some possible answers:


Yes. The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it.

Yes. I am a Christian who has never read the Bible. I'm just your typical male chauvinist pig.

No. They were equally tempted and equally wrong. If Eve could convince Adam, I'm sure the snake could too. Eve was just the first person the snake talked to. I disagree with Paul on this. Paul was only human after all.

No. I am a Christian who believes that Jesus died for my sins and rose from the dead. But, I do not accept 1 Timothy as part of my personal canon. There are arguments that suggest Paul wasn't even the author of 1 Timothy, and I lean toward those opinions.

No. From the story, they both look equal to me. But, who cares? It's only an ancient story that was passed down orally and probably evolved from earlier Mesopotamian mythologies. The men, and they were men, probably wrote down the final Genesis version we have today with Eve getting tricked first. Theirs was a male-dominated society, and they would just write down whatever they felt about women's inferiority. I am an atheist. Who in their right mind believes that there could possibly have been a talking snake anyway?

No. I am one of the few true Christians. I believe every single word of all 66 books of the Bible. The problem is that too many people take 1 Timothy out of context.


Of course, there are many more possible answers.

First - Paul never wrote the Pastoral letters.

Second - the story of Creation is a story - not fact.

Third - you are both a Christian and an atheist. - interesting how cognitive dissonance operates.

 

[littlelight]

Gen3: 16 God told Adam that he had done wrong â€Because you listened to your wifeâ€. Ro 5:12 lays all the blame to Adam.




1Tim2:14 the Holy Spirit who inspired Paul agrees that Eve was in fact deceived. He also states that Eve became a sinner but everyone became a sinner when Adam sinned. We macho men have been blaming Eve ever since the fall, but it seems to me she is guiltless or gets very little blame.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

The position of women in public worship is that of a quiet learner in manner and in act, yielding submission in all lawful respects to the position God had placed man as leader of the worship in the public assembly of the church. This is given as the rule "in all the churches of the saints." 1 Cor 14:33-34.

Thank you for both of your replies. Whether you are right or wrong, you seemed to have given this question serious thought before through study of the scriptures.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

First - Paul never wrote the Pastoral letters.

Second - the story of Creation is a story - not fact.

Thank you for your response. Your conclusion is shared by many, but could possibly be argued against by some of our residents here at ChristianForums.net. I wouldn't mind hearing(reading) some.

Third - you are both a Christian and an atheist. - interesting how cognitive dissonance operates.

Sounds more like you. It sure is interesting. Isn't it?

 

[Davies]

Does Eve deserve more blame than Adam?

Hi VirginShallConceive,

I'm trying to think of why we would ask this question. If I confess that Adam deserves more blame, would that lighten the burden of a woman? If I give more of the blame to Eve, are you saying that Paul is justifying his view that a woman will not teach him? Clearly, if Adam wasn't deceived, He would be found having committed the more serious crime, though both sinned. What's your angle?

- Davies

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Gen3: 16 God told Adam that he had done wrong â€Because you listened to your wifeâ€. Ro 5:12 lays all the blame to Adam.




1Tim2:14 the Holy Spirit who inspired Paul agrees that Eve was in fact deceived. He also states that Eve became a sinner but everyone became a sinner when Adam sinned. We macho men have been blaming Eve ever since the fall, but it seems to me she is guiltless or gets very little blame.

So far, we've had what appears to be three Christian posters with three very different answers. That makes for a good discussion. Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

 

[reba]

Adam as head of the house had the responsibility of covering Eve he failed.

For as in EVE all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. That just dont sound right...

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Hi VirginShallConceive,

I'm trying to think of why we would ask this question. If I confess that Adam deserves more blame, would that lighten the burden of a woman? If I give more of the blame to Eve, are you saying that Paul is justifying his view that a woman will not teach him? Clearly, if Adam wasn't deceived, He would be found having committed the more serious crime, though both sinned. What's your angle?

- Davies

Rats! I just posted that we've had three answers, and you snuck in ahead of me. Make that four.

Anyways, Hi, Davies!

I've noticed that you've been participating in a lot of interesting discussions lately. That's good. I like to read.

I will try to answer your questions, but just let me say, "Wow." The portion of your post that I bolded is such a good point. I've never thought of that. Now that's logic.


As far as your questions go:


"If I confess that Adam deserves more blame, would that lighten the burden of a woman?"

It would seem to put you at odds with Paul, or Paul's imposter. I must admit, you came out of left field with the "Adam's intent, not deception" thing. It's a good one. If you heard that from someone else, I would have to give them credit. If it was you, way to keep people on their toes!


"If I give more of the blame to Eve, are you saying that Paul is justifying his view that a woman will not teach him?"

If you do, all that would do is give one vote to Paul in his justification.


"What's your angle?"

I'm usually a literal kind of guy, but this one is getting tough. Let me go with this: Literal until proven otherwise.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Adam as head of the house had the responsibility of covering Eve he failed.

For as in EVE all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. That just dont sound right...

It doesn't sound right. Good point. Thanks, Reba!

 

[Davies]

Rats! I just posted that we've had three answers, and you snuck in ahead of me. Make that four.

Anyways, Hi, Davies!

I've noticed that you've been participating in a lot of interesting discussions lately. That's good. I like to read.

I will try to answer your questions, but just let me say, "Wow." The portion of your post that I bolded is such a good point. I've never thought of that. Now that's logic.


As far as your questions go:


"If I confess that Adam deserves more blame, would that lighten the burden of a woman?"

It would seem to put you at odds with Paul, or Paul's imposter. I must admit, you came out of left field with the "Adam's intent, not deception" thing. It's a good one. If you heard that from someone else, I would have to give them credit. If it was you, way to keep people on their toes!


"If I give more of the blame to Eve, are you saying that Paul is justifying his view that a woman will not teach him?"

If you do, all that would do is give one vote to Paul in his justification.


"What's your angle?"

I'm usually a literal kind of guy, but this one is getting tough. Let me go with this: Literal until proven otherwise.

VirginShallConceive,

In the verse you sited, I'm not convinced that Paul is giving more blame to Eve.

1 Timothy 2:11-14

New King James Version (NKJV)

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


It could be I'm missing something cultural here, so, I think I can only speculate. Questions I ask myself based on these words are why should a woman learn with silence and submission? Why point out that Adam was created first? So what that Eve was deceived and Adam wasn't? So, I go back to the text and speculate what Paul might have been referring to. When God says to Eve, "he shall rule over you", it would seem to me that this was the original roles that God had intended. I think God was teaching man from the beginning what kind of relationship He and the Son have, though the role each one performed was not an indication of different value. Did Paul have this in mind? I don't know. Because Paul would not sit under a woman's teaching, I don't think that tells me he blamed Eve more.

The passage that comes to mind at the moment is Ephesians 5:21 and Philippians 2:3. If we were to start putting more blame on others, I think this deflects us from humility, from the cross, and provides a rich soil for bitterness. If you know a bitter person, you know a person who blames everyone else except themselves.

- Davies

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Did Paul have this in mind? I don't know. Because Paul would not sit under a woman's teaching, I don't think that tells me he blamed Eve more.

Well, if you ask me, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 clearly is penalizing all women because of Eve. To me, it is plain as day. The author of that text clearly wants the reader to comprehend that straight-forward message, in my opinion. Whoever wrote it(God, Paul, The Man in the Moon), I just don't think they expect everyone to be Sherlock Holmes in order to interpret their simple take on the "gender hierarchy". It wouldn't be science-fiction if it just happened to be that a man living in the Roman Empire during the first century held women in significantly lower esteem than men. It's funny how many of us Christians take the Biblical Flood story at face value, but over-analyze this . . .

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

. . . to mean anything but what it actually is.

 

[Davies]

Well, if you ask me, 1 Timothy 2:11-14 clearly is penalizing all women because of Eve. To me, it is plain as day. The author of that text clearly wants the reader to comprehend that straight-forward message, in my opinion. Whoever wrote it(God, Paul, The Man in the Moon), I just don't think they expect everyone to be Sherlock Holmes in order to interpret their simple take on the "gender hierarchy". It wouldn't be science-fiction if it just happened to be that a man living in the Roman Empire during the first century held women in significantly lower esteem than men. It's funny how many of us Christians take the Biblical Flood story at face value, but over-analyze this . . .

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

. . . to mean anything but what it actually is.

My parting thoughts for the night: So, even if you think that Paul is placing more blame on Eve, so what? Let's say just for theory, that is exactly what Paul is doing. What would that teach us? Would it teach us that Paul was a man? Would it teach us he had weaknesses? Should we now open our pulpits to women? What doctrine can we form from this? What conclusion can we make if we believe that Paul was placing more blame on Eve? I can't think of anything. Maybe you have something in mind?

- Davies

 

[Asyncritus]

Adam was just plain evil.

Eve was deceived.

Has anyone asked the question why he stood there and let her eat of a tree which God had said was poisonous?

Has anyone asked why he didn't break the serpent's back and throw it out of the garden when he heard it saying that God is a liar?

Has anyone asked why that serpent was in there in the first place?

Be interesting to hear your comments on those points.

 

[BornAgain]

Adam was just plain evil.

Eve was deceived.

Has anyone asked the question why he stood there and let her eat of a tree which God had said was poisonous?

Has anyone asked why he didn't break the serpent's back and throw it out of the garden when he heard it saying that God is a liar?

Has anyone asked why that serpent was in there in the first place?

Be interesting to hear your comments on those points.

Romans 5:14 (KJV)
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Adam's transgression was setting aside a positive law. From Adam to Moses, even those that had not sinned, even after Adam's transgression. Adam's transgression was setting aside a positive law.

From Adam to Moses there was no code of laws, so they did not sin as Adam did. Yet they were wicked beyond measure; so God destroyed them.

even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression,—There are several respects in which the sins of Adam's posterity are not like his transgression: He sinned the first time tempted, with surroundings most favorable, with specific warning of God that he should die if he sinned.

He breathed the atmosphere of innocence and purity, in every breath of which the Spirit of God floated, and which was impregnated with the aroma of divine goodness and heavenly love. By virtue of his transgression the dominion of the world passed under the evil one. The world was sin-defiled.

The spirit of the evil one was infused into the whole atmosphere of earth, and poisoned it with the virus of sin and death. No individual down through the ages could sin under similar circumstances. Not one has been at liberty to choose life or death, as Adam had the privilege of doing. All must suffer death. We have no choice as to this.

who is a figure of him that was to come.—Adam, through whom sin and death came, is a figure of Jesus Christ. [The resemblance between Adam and Christ was their acts and the consequences of their acts. The one act of Adam affected the whole human family; that of Christ did likewise. That of Adam brought death to all men; the obedience of Christ brings all out of the grave alive John 5:28-29. Acts 24-15, 1 Cor 15:22. Whatever evils Adam's sin brought upon the world without our agency are all counteracted and remedied by the one act of Christ without our agency.]
—Gospel Advocate Commentaries

 

[VirginShallConceive]

My parting thoughts for the night: So, even if you think that Paul is placing more blame on Eve, so what? Let's say just for theory, that is exactly what Paul is doing. What would that teach us? Would it teach us that Paul was a man? Would it teach us he had weaknesses? Should we now open our pulpits to women? What doctrine can we form from this? What conclusion can we make if we believe that Paul was placing more blame on Eve? I can't think of anything. Maybe you have something in mind?

- Davies

I agree with your entire line of questioning here. Even if you assume it was Paul, and even if you assume he is placing more blame on Eve, it still opens a new line of further questions. Look at all the different responses we've gotten from Christians so far in this thread. What can I make of this? I don't know. It's very interesting though.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I stand in the Eve was deceived, and Adam consciously transgressed crowd. They are both certainly guilty but Adam was the leader of the woman and had greater culpability by being so. He could have said no, but desired to please his Wife moreso than God.

Hey, Edward!

Thanks for joining in the discussion. This kinda goes with an idea that Davies proposed. Maybe it's something like Adam was more calculatingly sinister, and Eve was just dumber and more gullible. So, it seems that you might disagree with 1 Timothy 2:11-14 as far as penalizing all women for this. Do you?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Adam was just plain evil.

Eve was deceived.

Thanks for joining in and asking some good questions.

Has anyone asked the question why he stood there and let her eat of a tree which God had said was poisonous?

It does sound a little absurd that they would disobey The Creator of the Universe.

Has anyone asked why he didn't break the serpent's back and throw it out of the garden when he heard it saying that God is a liar?

I know I would have.

Has anyone asked why that serpent was in there in the first place?

Be interesting to hear your comments on those points.

You got me. I was always a little perplexed at that one as well. It's starting to sound more and more like it is downright crazy to believe that it ever happened. Like it is just an ancient fairy tale. But, that's where faith comes in. You've just gotta have faith.