Does God control sin?

[electedbyhim]

Ephesians 1:11 In Him, we also have been made an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

In context this verse is speaking Gods plan of salvation

Ephesians 1:3-14

This passage describes God's master plan for salvation in terms of the past (election, Eph_1:3-6), the present (redemption, Eph_1:6-11), and the future (inheritance, Eph_1:12-14). It can also be viewed as emphasizing the Father (Eph_1:3-6), the Son (Eph_1:7-12), and the Spirit (Eph_1:13-16).

Focusing on the last part of vs. 1:11, Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, seems to me that this verse is not limited to salvation but also working sin to His purpose.

Does God control sin?

There are many passages in the Bible showing God controls sin and the sinful actions of men.

The book of Acts

Act 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

This verse not only says that God controls sin, but also ordained it.

Acts 4:27 -28 “For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

We know the Bible teaches that God hates sin and is not the author of sin.

Does not God ordain and control sin for His own purpose and glory?

Many believe that this is a heretical teaching.

I would like some civil discussion on what others believe.

Does God control sin?

 

[Whatever]

I believe God foreordained the fall of Adam and the fall into sin for the purpose of glorifying Himself and the Son.

Rev_13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus was preordained to come and be the savior before the foundation of the world. Why would God preordain that Jesus would die for sin unless He at the very least foreknew about it.

God wanted to show people all sides of His nature:

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

Everything is for God's glory. Most people are irrelevant.

Isa_40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket, And are counted as the small dust on the scales; Look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing.

As creatures we are too "us" centered. We think it is all about us.

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are a vapor, Men of high degree are a lie; If they are weighed on the scales, They are altogether lighter than vapor.

 

[electedbyhim]

I believe God foreordained the fall of Adam and the fall into sin for the purpose of glorifying Himself and the Son.

Rev_13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus was preordained to come and be the savior before the foundation of the world. Why would God preordain that Jesus would die for sin unless He at the very least foreknew about it.

God wanted to show people all sides of His nature:

Rom 9:22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,

Everything is for God's glory. Most people are irrelevant.

Isa_40:15 Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket, And are counted as the small dust on the scales; Look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing.

As creatures we are too "us" centered. We think it is all about us.

Psa 62:9 Surely men of low degree are a vapor, Men of high degree are a lie; If they are weighed on the scales, They are altogether lighter than vapor.

This is excellent.

 

[electedbyhim]

Still waiting on @SolaScriptura to enter the thread and refute that God does not control sin.

@SolaScriptura said several times in another thread for me to open this thread so he/she can refute it.

Waiting.......

 

[Fastfredy0]

1. God's non-determination of all things in short, seems to make the blessed God a sort of Almighty Minister of Fate, under its universal and supreme influence; as it was the professed sentiment of some of the ancients, that Fate was above the gods.
2. Were it in anywise possible for something to occur apart from the determination of God, then that something would be independent of Him, and He would at once cease to be Supreme in all things.
3. Election applies to God’s determination for individuals and nations. The alternative—that human volition is equal to or is, in some meaningful sense, greater than the divine will … that when God created human beings with volitional freedom He accordingly divested Himself of absolute sovereignty.
4. Arminianism denies the Determination of God in salvation. If God's will is steadily and surely determined in everything by supreme wisdom, then it is in everything necessarily determined to that which is most wise. And, certainly, it would be a disadvantage and indignity, to be otherwise. For if the Divine Will was not necessarily determined to what in every case is wisest and best, it must be subject to some degree of undesigning contingence; and so in the same degree liable to evil. To suppose the Divine Will liable to be carried hither and thither at random, by the uncertain wind of blind contingence, which is guided by no wisdom, no motive, no intelligent dictate whatsoever, (if any such thing were possible,) would certainly argue a great degree of imperfection and meanness, infinitely unworthy of the Deity.
5. God’s love must he traced back to His determining all things or, otherwise, He would love by rule; and if He loved by rule, then is He under a law of love, and if He is under a law of love then is He not supreme, but is Himself ruled by law.
6. God's determination of all things is manifest in disposing the means of grace to some, not to all. Why was the gospel published in Rome so soon, and not in Tartary? Why hath it been extinguished in some places, as soon almost as it had been kindled in them? That the gospel is published later, and not sooner, the apostle tell us is "according to the commandment of the everlasting God" (Romans 16:26). Charnock, Stephen. The Existence and Attributes of God . Kindle Edition.
7. If God determines all things over the whole world, then merit is totally excluded. His right is so absolute over all creatures, that he neither is, nor can be, a debtor to any. Can a vassal merit of his lord, or a slave of his master— all is due to him. He becomes not a debtor by receiving anything from us, but by promising something to us. 1 Corinthians 4:7b What do you have that you did not receive [from another]? And if in fact you received it [from God or someone else], why do you boast as if you had not received it [but had gained it by yourself]? Luke 17:10 So you too, when you have done everything that was assigned and commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy servants [undeserving of praise or a reward, for we have not gone beyond our obligation]; we have merely done what we ought to do.’”
8. The time of every man's death is decided by a sovereign Determination. But by determining this sovereignly, God very often practically decides the man's eternal destiny. Much more obvious is this in the case of infants. According to Arminians, all that die in infancy are saved. So, then, God's purpose to end their mortal life in infancy is His purpose to save them. But this purpose cannot be formed from any foresight of their faith or repentance, because they have none to foresee, being saved without them. Dabney, Robert L.. Systematic Theology. Kindle Edition. Job 14:5 The days of humans are determined; you have decreed the number of their months and have set limits they cannot exceed
9. That any determination of God should depend on the acts of a creature having an indeterminate, contingent will, such as the Free Willianism describes, is incompatible with God’s immutability and eternity. But all His decrees are such. In a word, this doctrine places the determination in the creature, instead of God, and makes Him wait on His own servant. It is disparaging to God. Dabney, Robert L.. Systematic Theology . Unknown. Kindle Edition.
10. If God does not determine all things in regards to salvation then believers would have no sufficient warrant to pray to God for salvation.
11. If God does not determine all things then we should degrade God's almighty work of grace, into an equal contention between Him and His doomed rebel slave, Satan, in which the latter succeeds at least as often as God!
12. “Free willianism” proposes that God’s will is based on contingency. This makes an immutable God to have a mutual will which is a contradiction.
13. 1 Chronicles 29:14 "Who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able to offer so willingly after this sort? for all things come of thee, and of thine own have we given thee".
14. Romans 5:21 “Even so might grace reign“
15. Romans 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
16. Psalm 103:19 The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, And His sovereignty rules over all
17. Psalm 139:16 Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written,
    Even the days that were ordained for me, [written, not recorded]
18. Isaiah 10:15 Does the ax raise itself above him who swings it, or the saw boast against him who uses it? As if a rod were to wield him who lifts it up, or a club brandish him who is not wood!
19. Isaiah 25:1 O LORD, Thou art my God; I will exalt Thee, I will give thanks to Thy name; For Thou hast worked wonders, plans formed long ago, with perfect faithfulness.
20. Matthew 20:15 Am I not lawfully permitted to do what I choose with what is mine?

Various Authors

 

[electedbyhim]

SolaScriptura

 

[Whatever]

“If there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose, totally free of God’s sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled.”
― R.C. Sproul, Chosen By God: Know God's Perfect Plan for His Glory and His Children

“it must be good that evil exists, because God sovereignly, providentially ordains only what is good. In terms of His eternal purpose, God has esteemed it good that evil should be allowed to happen in this world.”
― R.C. Sproul, Does God Control Everything?

This by him is also good:

No Maverick Molecule | Ligonier Ministries

If God is not sovereign, God is not God. Today, R.C. Sproul reveals that it is an abandonment not only of Christianity, but of theism itself if we believe that anything lies outside of God’s ultimate control.

www.ligonier.org

 

[electedbyhim]

“If there is one single molecule in this universe running around loose, totally free of God’s sovereignty, then we have no guarantee that a single promise of God will ever be fulfilled.”
― R.C. Sproul, Chosen By God: Know God's Perfect Plan for His Glory and His Children

“it must be good that evil exists, because God sovereignly, providentially ordains only what is good. In terms of His eternal purpose, God has esteemed it good that evil should be allowed to happen in this world.”
― R.C. Sproul, Does God Control Everything?

This by him is also good:

No Maverick Molecule | Ligonier Ministries

If God is not sovereign, God is not God. Today, R.C. Sproul reveals that it is an abandonment not only of Christianity, but of theism itself if we believe that anything lies outside of God’s ultimate control.

www.ligonier.org

Thank you.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I am staying out of this thread as it is clear reading the posts on here that you guys are too caught up with your "theology" that you don't know what you are talking about nor understand what the Bible teaches about God's Sovereignty and human responsibility

All the best

 

[electedbyhim]

I am staying out of this thread as it is clear reading the posts on here that you guys are too caught up with your "theology" that you don't know what you are talking about nor understand what the Bible teaches about God's Sovereignty and human responsibility

All the best

Translation: "I concede" a.k.a. I got nothin.

Yet, in your post you say we do not know what we are talking about and do not understand God's sovereignty.

Prove it.

Sola, you were all gung ho talk in the other forum.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Translation: "I concede" a.k.a. I got nothin.

Yet, in your post you say we do not know what we are talking about and do not understand God's sovereignty.

Prove it.

Sola, you were all gung ho talk in the other forum.

 

[electedbyhim]

I owe you and apology.

I was looking at my motive in making this thread, and replying to you, in all honesty I am not being Christ like towards you.

Although I stand firm in my beliefs that God controls sin and Scripture teaches this. I was not coming in love and not setting a Christlike example.

Holy Spirit has convicted me of this.

I am sorry and ask that you forgive me.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Does God Control Sin

Firstly, we have to establish what is meant by the word “control”

As defined by the Oxford English dictionary;

When used as a noun

“the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events”

And as a verb

“determine the behaviour or supervise the running of”

There is no doubt that God is indeed Absolutely Sovereign, which means that He can do anything without any restraints or restrictions. This is very clear in the entire Bible.

Secondly, because God “can do” whatever He pleases, to whoever He pleases, it does not mean that He “does do”.

God can and does direct our behaviour to a certain degree, but, it is clear that He does not always “choose” to.

God also does “influence” what people do, or what takes places in His world, but again, He does not always do so.

Thirdly, to say that God “controls” the sins in people lives, is to make God the Author of our sinful actions. Does God “direct” the sins that we commit? Or, does He “determine” that we sin against Him? In either case, He would be the Author of Sin, which is anathema and an impossibility.

Fourthly, God has Created all humans with a “free will”, which is the “ability to choose”, between options, and make decisions that could be right or wrong. This does not in any way take away form the fact that God is Absolutely Sovereign, because He has determined this for all humans.

Fifthly, when any person sins, it is their personal responsibility, and not because God somehow “influenced” them to do so, or even “directed” their sinning against Him. This is 100% against the very Nature and Character of the Holy God of the Bible, and blasphemy to teach.

This grave error of God’s “control” of our personal sins, has been taught by some, like the Reformed theologian, Wayne Grudem:

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331. emphasis mine)

This is totally unbiblical and blasphemous! God “ordains” that we sin against Him, which He actually forbids that we do; and then when we do what He Himself “ordains”, God holds us responsible, and punishes us for doing what He has already “ordained”! This is TOTALLY INSANE!

God, in His Infinite Wisdom, has, for reasons that are only known to Himself, PERMITTED that we sin, which He also ALLOWS, and then USES them for His own purposes.

It is VERY WRONG for Bible translations, like the King James, to read in Isaiah 45:7;

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”

The same Hebrew verb used in Genesis 1:1, “bā·rā” (Created), that is used here. The reading in Versions like the KJV, make God the actual Author of EVIL, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY!

The Hebrew adjective, “rā‘”, also has the meaning, “bad, unpleasant, giving pain, unhappiness, misery” (BDB, Hebrew Lexicon)

God does indeed USE the sinful actions of humans, as He did in the Death of Jesus Christ.

In Acts 2:23, Peter says, “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death”

This does NOT mean that God “CAUSED” these wicked people to do what they did. God FORESAW their evil deeds, and USED this for His Purposes. God did not “CAUSE” Judas to betray Jesus Christ, which Judas did for his own FREE WILL, and was RESPONSIBLE for his own actions. God did indeed USE this for His Purposes.

A good example of God USING the sinful actions of humans, is found in 1 Kings 22:19-23, where we read of the evil king Ahab, where God USES, and not CAUSES, the evil lying spirit, to pronounce His Righteous Judgements on this wicked king.

It is a Biblical IMPOSSIBILITY for God to “control” the SINFUL and WICKED actions that are carried out every day by sinners against Himself.

This does NOT in any way makes God not Absolutely Sovereign, because He has Created all humans with a FREE WILL, to do good or evil.

 

[Whatever]

A good example of God USING the sinful actions of humans, is found in 1 Kings 22:19-23, where we read of the evil king Ahab, where God USES, and not CAUSES, the evil lying spirit, to pronounce His Righteous Judgements on this wicked king.

1Ki 22:21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The LORD said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the LORD said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.'

Pro_12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD . . .

When this spirit said he would go out and be a lying spirit, your God should have said "NO! I hate lying lips." But He not only told him to "go out and do so" but that his lying would work. God accomplished His goal through a lying spirit.

 

[SolaScriptura]

1Ki 22:21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, and said, 'I will persuade him.' 22 The LORD said to him, 'In what way?' So he said, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the LORD said, 'You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.'

Pro_12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD . . .

When this spirit said he would go out and be a lying spirit, your God should have said "NO! I hate lying lips." But He not only told him to "go out and do so" but that his lying would work. God accomplished His goal through a lying spirit.

Are you making the God of the Bible a liar?

 

[electedbyhim]

Does God Control Sin

Firstly, we have to establish what is meant by the word “control”

As defined by the Oxford English dictionary;

When used as a noun

“the power to influence or direct people's behaviour or the course of events”

And as a verb

“determine the behaviour or supervise the running of”

There is no doubt that God is indeed Absolutely Sovereign, which means that He can do anything without any restraints or restrictions. This is very clear in the entire Bible.

Secondly, because God “can do” whatever He pleases, to whoever He pleases, it does not mean that He “does do”.

God can and does direct our behaviour to a certain degree, but, it is clear that He does not always “choose” to.

God also does “influence” what people do, or what takes places in His world, but again, He does not always do so.

Thirdly, to say that God “controls” the sins in people lives, is to make God the Author of our sinful actions. Does God “direct” the sins that we commit? Or, does He “determine” that we sin against Him? In either case, He would be the Author of Sin, which is anathema and an impossibility.

Fourthly, God has Created all humans with a “free will”, which is the “ability to choose”, between options, and make decisions that could be right or wrong. This does not in any way take away form the fact that God is Absolutely Sovereign, because He has determined this for all humans.

Fifthly, when any person sins, it is their personal responsibility, and not because God somehow “influenced” them to do so, or even “directed” their sinning against Him. This is 100% against the very Nature and Character of the Holy God of the Bible, and blasphemy to teach.

This grave error of God’s “control” of our personal sins, has been taught by some, like the Reformed theologian, Wayne Grudem:

"In Spite of All of the Foregoing Statements, We Have to Come to the Point Where We Confess That We Do Not Understand How It Is That God Can Ordain That We Carry Out Evil Deeds and Yet Hold Us Accountable for Them and Not be Blamed Himself: We can affirm that all of these things are true, because Scripture teaches them. But Scripture does not tell us exactly how God brings this situation about or how it can be that God holds us accountable for what he ordains to come to pass. Here Scripture is silent, and we have to agree with Berkhof that ultimately “the problem of God’s relation to sin remains a mystery" (Systematic Theology, p.331. emphasis mine)

This is totally unbiblical and blasphemous! God “ordains” that we sin against Him, which He actually forbids that we do; and then when we do what He Himself “ordains”, God holds us responsible, and punishes us for doing what He has already “ordained”! This is TOTALLY INSANE!

God, in His Infinite Wisdom, has, for reasons that are only known to Himself, PERMITTED that we sin, which He also ALLOWS, and then USES them for His own purposes.

It is VERY WRONG for Bible translations, like the King James, to read in Isaiah 45:7;

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”

The same Hebrew verb used in Genesis 1:1, “bā·rā” (Created), that is used here. The reading in Versions like the KJV, make God the actual Author of EVIL, which is an IMPOSSIBILITY!

The Hebrew adjective, “rā‘”, also has the meaning, “bad, unpleasant, giving pain, unhappiness, misery” (BDB, Hebrew Lexicon)

God does indeed USE the sinful actions of humans, as He did in the Death of Jesus Christ.

In Acts 2:23, Peter says, “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death”

This does NOT mean that God “CAUSED” these wicked people to do what they did. God FORESAW their evil deeds, and USED this for His Purposes. God did not “CAUSE” Judas to betray Jesus Christ, which Judas did for his own FREE WILL, and was RESPONSIBLE for his own actions. God did indeed USE this for His Purposes.

A good example of God USING the sinful actions of humans, is found in 1 Kings 22:19-23, where we read of the evil king Ahab, where God USES, and not CAUSES, the evil lying spirit, to pronounce His Righteous Judgements on this wicked king.

It is a Biblical IMPOSSIBILITY for God to “control” the SINFUL and WICKED actions that are carried out every day by sinners against Himself.

This does NOT in any way makes God not Absolutely Sovereign, because He has Created all humans with a FREE WILL, to do good or evil.

Would you say that God controls Satan (that includes sin)?

If you disagree, why?

If you agree, how is that any different that controlling sin in people. The unregenerate are the children of the devil.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Would you say that God controls Satan (that includes sin)?

If you disagree, why?

If you agree, how is that any different that controlling sin in people. The unregenerate are the children of the devil.

If the God of the Bible does not control the devil, then He cannot be Almighty, and the devil is more powerful than He is, which is the HIGHEST BLASPHEMY!

No one can honestly question God's overall control of His Creation. What we are talking about, is OUR personal CHOICES, when we CHOOSE by our God-given FREE WILL, to, either obey or disobey the Lord.

Adam and Even were clearly told by God not to eat the fruit of a certain tree; then we have the father of lies, the devil, who comes and directly contradicts God, and persuades them to disobey what God has Commanded them not to do.

It was their FREE CHOICE, and NOT that God somehow "failed" to get them to listen to Him, when they CHOSE to disobey Him

We know from the Book of Job, that the devil is subject to God, and can only do as much as he is "allowed" to. God has, for reasons that He has not told us, in His Infinite Wisdom, to "allow" His adversary, the devil, to continue his wicked ways in our world. God can in a second destroy the devil and his wicked angels, but for His own reasons, which are 100% Just, not done so.

The devil causes both the unrighteous and righteous to sin and fall every single day. There are many Christian leaders who have been greatly deceived by the devil, and sadly, many have fallen into gross sin. I also from time to time disobey the Lord, when I don't fully follow what the Bible Teaches, which I very much regret.

The fact that God has in His own Wisdom, so decided to allow even His own children to sin against Him, is clear that in this personal sense, due to human FREE WILL, mean that God does not "control" all of human actions. If He did, then there would be ZERO sin in this world, and all Christians would 100% of the time do His will. This is not the case.

None of this in any way take away from God's Sovereignty, or make Him not in TOTAL CONTROL of His complete Creation

 

[electedbyhim]

If the God of the Bible does not control the devil, then He cannot be Almighty, and the devil is more powerful than He is, which is the HIGHEST BLASPHEMY!

No one can honestly question God's overall control of His Creation. What we are talking about, is OUR personal CHOICES, when we CHOOSE by our God-given FREE WILL, to, either obey or disobey the Lord.

Adam and Even were clearly told by God not to eat the fruit of a certain tree; then we have the father of lies, the devil, who comes and directly contradicts God, and persuades them to disobey what God has Commanded them not to do.

It was their FREE CHOICE, and NOT that God somehow "failed" to get them to listen to Him, when they CHOSE to disobey Him

We know from the Book of Job, that the devil is subject to God, and can only do as much as he is "allowed" to. God has, for reasons that He has not told us, in His Infinite Wisdom, to "allow" His adversary, the devil, to continue his wicked ways in our world. God can in a second destroy the devil and his wicked angels, but for His own reasons, which are 100% Just, not done so.

The devil causes both the unrighteous and righteous to sin and fall every single day. There are many Christian leaders who have been greatly deceived by the devil, and sadly, many have fallen into gross sin. I also from time to time disobey the Lord, when I don't fully follow what the Bible Teaches, which I very much regret.

The fact that God has in His own Wisdom, so decided to allow even His own children to sin against Him, is clear that in this personal sense, due to human FREE WILL, mean that God does not "control" all of human actions. If He did, then there would be ZERO sin in this world, and all Christians would 100% of the time do His will. This is not the case.

None of this in any way take away from God's Sovereignty, or make Him not in TOTAL CONTROL of His complete Creation

No one can honestly question God's overall control of His Creation. What we are talking about, is OUR personal CHOICES, when we CHOOSE by our God-given FREE WILL, to, either obey or disobey the Lord.

Actually, we are talking about if God controls sin.

I was not talking anything about free will.

We know from the Book of Job, that the devil is subject to God, and can only do as much as he is "allowed" to. God has, for reasons that He has not told us, in His Infinite Wisdom, to "allow" His adversary, the devil, to continue his wicked ways in our world. God can in a second destroy the devil and his wicked angels, but for His own reasons, which are 100% Just, not done so.

This confirms that God controls satan and sin.

The devil causes both the unrighteous and righteous to sin and fall every single day. There are many Christian leaders who have been greatly deceived by the devil, and sadly, many have fallen into gross sin. I also from time to time disobey the Lord, when I don't fully follow what the Bible Teaches, which I very much regret.

I understand what you are saying here.

The fact that God has in His own Wisdom, so decided to allow even His own children to sin against Him, is clear that in this personal sense, due to human FREE WILL, mean that God does not "control" all of human actions. If He did, then there would be ZERO sin in this world, and all Christians would 100% of the time do His will. This is not the case.

Allowing His own children to sin is controlling them in a sense.

Again, we are not talking about free will, however I will make a comment.

If man does have a free will and the Bible teaches it (which it does not), humans will always choose to sin.

If Adam and Eve had free will the free will choice they made was to sin, and we see that this happened.

God does not "control" all of human actions.

This is not Biblical according to Scripture.

Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

If He did, then there would be ZERO sin in this world, and all Christians would 100% of the time do His will. This is not the case.

If there was zero sin in the world, then there would be no need for our Redeemer Jesus Christ.

God allows and controls sin for His own glory.

We would often be better to ask why sin is committed rather than why it is permitted.

To exalt and magnify Christ. God works the greatest good (Christ our Mediator) from sin. If there had been no sin, there would have been no Christ (i.e. incarnation, the eternal Son always was and will be).

To exalt God’s attributes. His justice in punishing sin, His mercy and grace in forgiving sin and His wisdom in overruling it. We must not therefore profanely cavil at the existence of sin. Rather we should adore from the heart all the glorious attributes of God that are exalted because of it. As sin has abounded, so God’s grace and mercy have abounded.

To work for the very good of the person that commits it. As a blasphemer and a persecutor Paul was the chiefest sinner of all. He was, therefore, more humble than all.

To glorify grace in the godly. Opposites illustrate one another. In rhetoric there is a device called antithesis which serves to add greater beauty. In the same way, Augustine says that there is an eloquence in things when good is praised by means of evil. Thus, the dark night sets out the day, the dark shadows in the picture adorn it, and the pause or silence in singing make the melody sweeter.

To demonstrate excellent graces in the godly. These have been evident when God permitted wicked men to satisfy their intentions. The patience, zeal and strength of Christian martyrs were seen because of the wickedness of Nero and Diocletian’s persecutors. God makes the goodness of the godly more admired by contrast with the wickedness of the wicked.
Anthony Burgess

 

[SolaScriptura]

Actually, we are talking about if God controls sin.

I was not talking anything about free will.



This confirms that God controls satan and sin.


I understand what you are saying here.


Allowing His own children to sin is controlling them in a sense.

Again, we are not talking about free will, however I will make a comment.

If man does have a free will and the Bible teaches it (which it does not), humans will always choose to sin.

If Adam and Eve had free will the free will choice they made was to sin, and we see that this happened.



This is not Biblical according to Scripture.

Proverbs 16:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.



If there was zero sin in the world, then there would be no need for our Redeemer Jesus Christ.

God allows and controls sin for His own glory.

So you believe that God is the author of sin

 

[electedbyhim]

So you believe that God is the author of sin

I would not say that.

We know that Scripture teaches that God is not the author of sin.

I admit I have a tough time discerning this. To me this is no different than understanding the Trinity or that Jesus was fully God and fully human at the same time. I do not believe humans can fully discern this.

But God does controls sin.

I will agree with John Frame on this....

The following is from The Doctrine of God, Chapter 9, “The Problem of Evil,” by John Frame. The headings are added; the paragraphs are Dr. Frame’s. (desiringgod.com)


God Is Sovereign Over Sin

. . . God does harden hearts, and through his prophets he predicts sinful human actions long in advance, indicating that he is in control of human free decisions. Now theologians have found it difficult to formulate in general terms how God acts to bring about those sinful actions. . . . Do we want to say that God is the “cause” of evil? That language is certainly problematic, since we usually associate cause with blame. . . . t seems that if God causes sin and evil, he must be to blame for it.

Words: The Theologian’s Tools

Therefore, there has been much discussion among theologians as to what verb should best describes God’s agency in regard to evil. Some initial possibilities: authors, brings about, causes, controls, creates, decrees, foreordains, incites, includes within his plan, makes happen, ordains, permits, plans, predestines, predetermines, produces, stands behind, wills. Many of these are extra-scriptural terms; none of them are perfectly easy to define in this context. So theologians need to give some careful thought about which of these terms, if any, should be affirmed, and in what sense. Words are the theologian’s tools. In a situation like this, none of the possibilities is fully adequate. There are various advantages and disadvantages among the different terms. Let us consider some of those that are most frequently discussed.


Does God Author Sin?

The term authors is almost universally condemned in the theological literature. It is rarely defined, but it seems to mean both that God is the efficient cause of evil and that by causing evil he actually does something wrong.1 So the [Westminster Confession] says that God “neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin” (5:4). Despite this denial in a major Reformed confession, Arminians regularly charge that Reformed theology makes God the author of sin. They assume that if God brings about evil in any sense, he must therefore approve it and deserve the blame. In their view, nothing less than libertarian freedom will serve to absolve God from the charge of authoring sin.

God Does Not Author Sin

But as we saw [in chapter 8] libertarian freedom is incoherent and unbiblical. And as we saw [in chapter 4] God does bring about sinful human actions. To deny this, or to charge God with wickedness on account of it, is not open to a Bible-believing Christian. Somehow, we must confess both that God has a role in bringing evil about, and that in doing so he is holy and blameless. . . . God does bring sins about, but always for his own good purposes. So in bringing sin to pass he does not himself commit sin. If that argument is sound, then a Reformed doctrine of the sovereignty of God does not imply that God is the author of sin.